I would kill to return to the before Trump times.

...that's what separated a Trump Presidency from a Clinton Presidency. And Trump was way, way more popular in 2016. Or Clinton was way less popular. Take your pick. Either way, we're in better shape, given the current candidates, than we were last time.

Trump now has the advantage of incumbency, campaign experience, an open invitation to Russia, and possibly a good economy.

It's not as easy as it looks.

2016 was too focused on voting AGAINST Trump and Democrats came up short because of the meddling. You avoid that working a second time by bringing in NEW and ENERGIZED voters. Beto has PROVEN he can do that because he increased youth voter turnout in Texas by 500%! Biden can't do that, no matter how nice or good of a guy he is. Beto will work his ass off and no one can out work him. That also was not an attack on Biden in that clip. Biden is opposed to legalized marijuana and that's not going to fly with young voters at all.

in a general...and Beto lost the Senate race and remains on the fringe in the primary...and Biden is beating Trump in Texas...so I disagree with every word out of your mouth...run on the ACA with a public option for those who live in states where Medicaid was not expanded like Georgia...run on reasonable climate change combined with a jobs program...reparations, basic income, free college...none of these issues will work in a general. Beto has to win a primary and I don't think he can. Run on securing Social security by making the rich pay their fair share...run on cancelling Trump's tax cut with a tax cut for middle America...infrastructure...Biden can do this...most of the others have advanced policies that will hurt their general election chances. There is nothing more important than beating Trump...any Democrat in the field will be just fine...but only Biden can win a general in my opinion.

In regards to the Texas Senate race...Biden would have been utterly slaughtered in that race. Any of the Democrats running for president would have been. None of the candidates leading in the polls have ever had to face a vile, nasty, hateful race in a blood red state like Beto has. No one is more battle tested. Beto is responsible for helping to flip the House by helping flip TWO seats from safe R to D. He helped get 17 African American female judges elected. 500% more young voters.

Beto isn't running on the Green New Deal. He created his own Climate Plan (which Biden pilfered from, by the way) Beto isn't running on Medicare for All. He supports Medicare for America. It is more along the lines of a public option with private insurance but using Medicare as the public option.

Beto does not turn off Progressives nor does he scare moderates. I believe in him. I trust him. I am giving him money and I will volunteer if he is the nominee.

Again...I am a MODERATE INDEPENDENT. I live in a very conservative district in a battleground state. I am exactly the type of voter Democrats claim to need to win. I love Biden as a VP and in the Obama and Biden memes...but as president? Not so much. I won't give him money or volunteer for him because he doesn't inspire or motivate me. Beto does. I love Beto's Climate Plan. I love Beto's Plan for Choice. I love Beto's Immigration Plan. I love Beto's LGBTQ+ Equality Plan and I Love Beto's Voting Rights Plan.

Joe is who people love and want - others, not so much...

I’ve been very disappointed that he has not generated much enthusiasm in his campaign and I have come to feel like Beto would not fare well against Trump. I still believe that Biden is our best shot at getting rid of Trump. Beto 2820

Polls mean nothing. At this time Jimmy Carter was at 1%. Polls told us Trump would not win.

Beto is the ONLY one who has faced a truly vile and nasty election. He is battle tested from just a few months ago.

I think your attempt at humor failed miserably.

This is probably his best chance.

You want to give those votes away? 'cause, "We can win without them?"

And here I thought they were responsible for our losses in 2000 and 2016.

eyes:

Which is it?

why put out something like that which paints a target on our backs with no chance of passing it? I want to begin the battle for climate change by getting stuff that can really pass...not muddy the water and turn people against it...hearts and minds my friend.

It is about getting rid of him and trying to get back to normal. Nobody needs to vote "FOR" more than anything but preservation of this country.

which help him get elected. I don't want to jump from the fire back into the frying pan. Either way you are cooked.

He's right about that. I've seen polls that indicate that. In the end, what people vote on are things that hit them in the pocketbook. "It's the economy, stupid" is the old & accurate statement. Jobs, health care, climate change (which is both a quality of life and pocketbook issue).

Dems need to talk about making health care accessible to those who fell thrugh the cracks in the ACA. No, not the working class in states that didn't expand Medicaid. I'm talking about the working middle class who don't get health care through their employment. They voted for Trump because of that situation.

Some also voted for Trump because he spoke to their jobs, which they perceived as being lost because of trade agreements. If the Dems address that issue, that takes those people away from Trump (to the extent that any still think that Trump will deliver on this).

In other words, people will vote for a lying POS, if they think he'll restore their jobs or help get them access to health care. You don't have the luxury of voting for a fine person over an a-hole, if you're looking at losing your home or using your retirement savings to pay for health care premiums.

The economy is more important than every other issue put together when it comes to actually motivating the people who aren't already absolutely partisan.

Economic models predicted a Clinton win in 2016 (a real win, not a moral victory). So what happened? Income inequality. The numbers look good but real people have to work more hours for less pay, or they were forced to retire, while watching news that says everything is great.

This is also why Warren's message on income inequality is starting to resonate.

But I PRAY that you are right.

Merrick Fucking Garland

center left (if we are lucky...GOP presidents drag us to the right) country. Look at the Senate...there is almost no path to a majority. We better develop a plan (50 state plan) and soon or we won't get policy or judges...we may be voting only to stop Trump...and that is still a worthy goal. A moderate has the best chance to have coattails in states that went for Trump ...Thus I support Biden. He is actually progressive but can win moderates.

I disagree. Moderates have gotten us where we are. We face existential challenges and we have no more time to waste.

spoiling yes...The Stein folks, the folks who stayed home or wrote in anyone...those that knee capped Kerry in 2004 and Gore in 2000..and of course the worst thing whereby we lost the courts ...2016. Where the emails were just too much for them...wait for what? Another loss? We live in a center left country at best...maybe try winning people over before causing another loss...the left left green slimes only helped Republicans ...we must win...and making believe a left left candidate can win the rustbelt is foolish and dangerous. We must win.

Not a good look politically. This election, it is vital that Democrats look unified. Attacking a popular and well known public figure reflects poorly on the attacker. It also shows a lack of experience in the political realm. It was rare you ever saw Obama attack a Democratic candidate, if ever, and the same goes for Biden.

Most voters aren't as politically aware as we are on Democratic Underground and this is the sort of thing that turns them off.

Thus leaving people dissatisfied with the winner. Geez did we no learn only 3 years ago? It's ridiculous.

There is nothing wrong with what he said. Any candidate who wants to win would answer similarly.

I really haven't paid a lot of attention to him, because I figure he's going nowhere, but I did tune in to listen last night. He was halting in his responses, still making the extraneous hand and arm movements, and is still extremely self-effacing.

About all he can do at this point is to attack the front runner in a desperate bid for attention to get his mojo back.

He has to find a way to stand out.

He wasn't knocking Obama. Heck, his campaign manager worked for Obama.

Democrats don't push a positive vision.

called multi-tasking.

like the smell of desperation in the morning.

about the Obama years, UFB?

Because, like it or not, Obama DID deport a lot of people. Beto also looks up to Obama very much. You can admire someone and disagree with something they said or did.

last night about that, but I didn't catch all of it. He quoted one of FDR's most famous campaign speeches.

...the poster I replied to is talking about. Whatever.

just yesterday say...we need to finish the work of FDR????? Use google. That's your friend.

...which isn’t a crime or some great offense towards you. Don’t ask me to defend your positions.

Going off of what you said happened, without a quote, it sounds more like that’s talking about moving forward rather than going back. Building on something that started a long time ago.

Like you could have easily done in the first place. It's not like bernie hasn't been saying this over and over.

going back to a time with policies that ended the Great Depression, won WWII, and built the greatest middle class in the history of the planet.



Was it perfect? Was he? No, and no. Did it make a big fucking difference going forward? Yes, it did--and we need that again.

...is a good way to lose what little support you have.

One of the things I liked most about Beto was that he rarely, if ever, said anything negative about fellow candidates. If he is changing his tune now, that is unfortunate and I see him never making it to the next tier of top candidates. We Democrats do not want to hear you diminishing the need to beat Trump while at the same time insulting fellow Democrats. Absolutely not.

This shows how unprepared he was for a national race and why experience really DOES count. He should have focused on another senate run in Texas. We could really use a Democrat from Texas in the senate.

From my point of view, the Biden is from the past argument is equally tiresome and over played.

Its going to be a long primary and the media is going to wear us all down. That I'm quite sure of, which is why I'm limiting my cable news exposure. Maintaining my sanity makes it necessary. Besides, most of the country isn't watching all of this as closely as we are. What is a big story to us today won't be remembered six months from now.

I feel so much better getting all of my news from DU and online articles.

A lot less hype and mind numbing redundancy. Sometimes I turn it on the catch up on the latest news, but often they just repeat the same stories over and over again, as if nothing else is happening in the world.

They were disagreements in policy and fair criticism of policy positions. That's just exactly what we will be seeing in the debates.

And if Beto acts this way on the debate stage, he will go the way of Gabbard, Gillibrand, etc. and his already small flame will flicker out. The Beto he showed himself to be on Morning Joe this morning was not inspiring and will only lose support if he keeps it up.

Name the Democrats who he is attacking and describe the attacks please. Thanks in advance.

When Buttigieg critiqued Hillary Clinton's campaign, he got a slap on the wrist.

Beto has every right to say whatever he's saying, just like everyone else

did you watch the entire interview?

and it was not an attack.

...but i will vote for whichever candidate gets the dem nom. they are all that good.

Its actually Bernie thats the past, he's talking about going back to Roosevelt.

desperate by saying what you said this morning on morning joe. You’ ve lost any chance of getting a primary vote from me.

May the best candidate win.

but you.

us something of what he said?

It was a very, very good interview and he came out very strong, confident and presidential. I think it will help him and I think that is why some people are mad. The videos are up on the MSNBC website to watch. I'm almost done with them. Beto did criticize Biden but it was in the context of him disagreeing with policy positions and it wasn't mean...he was asked to draw contrasts between himself and Biden, so he answered.

so people can see the full video rather than just a small clip. Context matters.
Beto was asked to draw contrast between himself and Biden and that is what he did. It was not an attack on Biden. It was a distinction and difference in policy positions and, imo, honest. Biden supporters would not like it because they know that the thins Beto mentioned are sore spots with Democrats. That's really what this is about. It was nothing more than something we are likely to hear in the debates and it was not personal at all.

I don't know..but don't be a gambler Beto.. and throw it all away because you are losing... that is a fools bet.. You are not going to be President this time.. and most likely never.. but don't go an blow yourself up .. just saying.. God please my biggest fear is "some" in the Sanders coalition, who are willing to bring it down around our ears have gotten to you.. oh well

It seems to be a common attach against Biden. I won't name names. But I have heard it from at least 4 at this point. Expect to hear from more.

has been a constant refrain among Biden supporters and a theme of his campaign from the start.


Now it's an attack to talk about it? Please.

disdained as if it's a bad thing. They're framing it as something "old fashioned." Really??? Then give me some of the old fashioned.

And really when you think about it, they're only attacking Biden as old fashioned because they have no accomplishments to speak of for themselves. We get it.

That's the thing. Some people want that and some don't think it's enough.

It's a legitimate thing to talk about. Not an attack.

Our politics is so abnormal now, some people now think the total gridlock of Obama's second term was normal.

Trump is a symptom of our insanity, not a cause of it.

and pathetic. "Normalcy" prior to tRump was Merrick Fucking Garland.

Trump is going to be a tough opponent--he's is going to try to rile the country up against immigration and make the election about the wall. We are going to need to not only get out our current base but inspire new voters to register and vote and infrequent voters to vote.

Beto is very strong against Trump. Back in his Senate race, he talked about impeaching Trump --a not popular position in Texas at the time and one most Democratic candidates in blue states were shying away from at the time.


His policy plans on climate change, immigration, voting rights, LGBTQ rights ARE solid plans to move the country forward.

His very volatile Senate race against Cruz was the training and trial run that he needed to prepare for going up against Trump. No one else who has a legitimate shot at winning has faced anything close to that kind of race. Beto is ready for this. He is the right person to do this. It's not only about energizing voters and having great plans and charisma...the nominee needs to be able to take being relentlessly attacked and be able to stay focused and not crack under the pressure. Biden can't even answer tough questions without getting defensive. Trump will trigger that defensiveness in him. Beto has proven himself strong and resilient under extremely nasty and hateful attacks without faltering or letting it stop him. Democrats NEED those qualities against Trump.

and going back to the past as it was in 2016. FFS. This is no time for a "revolution." That attempt backfired and backfired big.

I like all of our candidates except 2 or 3 I like much less than the others.

But I disagree with Beto. Priority number 1 is to defeat trump and keep the House. Winning the Senate would be amazing as well, but harder.

We can worry about the purity tests once we take back the country. We need to start winning elections including at the local level consistently which will not be easy because now the big money donors will buy Dem candidates to primary Dem incumbents. It's not gonna get any easier.

I posted the link on a new thread.

But I can tell you it's not going to change my opinion. I'm far from being what's now being called a "mainstream" or "establishment" Democrat. I'm pragmatic and I have tremendous concern about global warming, the less fortunate and animals.

I despise republicans and find it absolutely laughable how a lot of people here and elsewhere who criticize "establishment Dems" were so gullible to believe ANY russiapublican politician when it came to the rule of law.

Getting rid of Trump is the number 1 priority, by far, for me. Once we regain control we can implement all wonderful new ideas. But we have to get a LOT smarter to control the narrative on everything more so than ever.

VOTE BLUE

He has said it's the most important issue to finally deal with. He also has great plans on Choice, Voting Rights, Immigration and as of yesterday LGBTQ+ Equality. Beto has enough about him to appeal to Progressives without simultaneously scaring moderates. He also actually forms his policy positions by talking directly to the people impacted by those policies who know most about impact and what will or won't work. He is truly a people's politician.

Love Beto. In fact I've met him and have watched more of his rally speeches than any other candidate.

I just wanna win, for the planet.

He has a very wide appeal. I firmly believe that he is the best one to do this. What other candidate is so battle tested? After his race in Texas he has proven he can take a hell of a lot of heat, and he can energize and motivate volunteers and get people to show up and vote.

Last edited Thu Jun 13, 2019, 07:43 PM - Edit history (1)

Biden has claimed the anti-Trump vote. He attacks Trump more than the others and de-emphasizes change. Biden has all the people who think our biggest hurdle is getting rid of Trump.

But there are a lot of people who think getting rid of Trump is just our FIRST hurdle, and we then have even bigger hurdles. That we must make fundamental changes to our politics and our policies that go well beyond anything that's been proposed in the last 50 years.

If you are one of these people, then being anti-Trump is not enough and even seems dangerous. It risks failing to do the real work after Trump is gone. Worse, it risks failing to offer the general electorate a satisfactory alternative to Trump.

I am someone who thinks we need to be much more than anti-Trump and must market ourselves that way. I feel Biden supporters are ignoring my concerns just from reading this thread. If I feel that way as a committed Democrat, how will GE voters feel?

I agree with you totally.

by visionary, inspirational ideas.

Yes, we need to beat Trump. Nothing else matters if we do not. But at the same time, we need to get people thinking about a better tomorrow.

There is already pent up demand for people waiting on casting an anti-Trump vote. That's enough motivation for them. But that is not enough. We need a landslide, and I see two ways to get there:

1 - A fifty-state strategy where politicians are not criticized by other dems for localizing their pitch to voters. What flies in one district may not in the next.
2 - Bold, blockbuster ideas that inspires the next generation of voters and helps people struggling today with college costs, healthcare, childcare, etc.

The anti-Trump vote is a powerful bloc. But I'm not convinced that it's enough. I agree with Beto.

Besides, we can never return to the past. It has already happened. We can not go back in time and fix what went wrong. We can only move forward.

and made damn well sure no Republicans can undo progress ever again. I don't think Biden is the one to take us there. The people who are anti-Trump would vote for a steaming pile of dog crap over Trump. They are NOT the ones that need to be convinced to vote. It's the millions that have never felt inspired or motivated to vote before. Beto has PROVEN that he can reach those voters...and in all honesty...Beto is the ONLY one who truly has a genuine shot at winning who has faced the kind of volatile fight we are in for with Trump. He's battle tested. He is best prepared for the fight ahead.

popular and able leaders in history. The ACA was based on an already existing plan. The deal with
Iran had been, in its essence if not details, on and off the table for four decades.

The Recovery Act was an economic plan worked on with economic advisors, which some would say was not bold at all, certainly not bold enough. But it rescued us from the Great Recession.

Obama developed a comprehensive immigration act and a jobs act. Both were thorough, well thought out, but not greatly original, hardly visionary, and did not pass. Our country would be in much better shape had we passed immigration reform and the jobs plan was something we should revisit.

Obama chaired the UN Security Council meeting, first US president to do so, where he led the passing of a resolution other world powers signed on to in an effort to stem the flow of home-grown jihadists. I’d call that detailed resolution prescient as it was passed only months before
home grown jihadists attacked at Charlie Hebdo and a Jewish deli.

He later put together a summit on terrorism bringing together counter terrorist experts, law enforcement, gang prevention and community leaders to brainstorm ideas. This effort, though mocked as ineffectual, exemplified his manner of leading—to coordinate, to negotiate, to put the best people together to find solutions, to spearhead efforts—which due to the force of his personalty and intellect, and based on the respect he engendered here and abroad—were often successful where others had failed before.

I do not recall when he ran that he proposed detailed policies. But he sure inspired, set a tone in the country, lay out the areas to be addressed, stressed his belief in government as an agent to improve and change lives. How’s that hope and change thingy workin for ya?

Worked well in part because Obama worked well with others, listened to his experts, studied a plan presented to him, and once committed to it, did not hesitate, never gave up.

I don’t know when the job description of president changed so that we must have a combination of Steve Jobs and Buckminster Fuller armed with power points and proto types to get out the gate.

Much of the next president’s work will be bringing departments back to mission, undoing the tax giveaway, re-enacting Obama era regulations, restoring the dignity of the office, rebuilding our alliances, reinstating the Iran deal, rejoining Paris Climate Accord—lots of “re,” that dreaded prefix that means again, going back, or as many protest, the past.

This work of restoration does not preclude progress. But building back up our government and promoting a sane foreign policy our allies can sign on to is the functional bedrock on which progress must rest.

Electability is essential, but it’s a quality we can only predict.

Personal integrity, a willingness to protect and represent all Americans, a firm grasp of the constitution, a desire to keep working towards a more perfect nation, and an ability to unify as many ordinary Americans as possible in the fight for this nation’s soul—I see these qualifications as not negotiable. They assume a commitment to social justice for which it is necessary to have healthcare for all, equal pay, racial justice, LGBT rights, and the preservation and expansion of the social safety net.

Bold, new ideas can solve problems and give fresh opportunities. They are best cultivated in collaboration—true of science and the arts. So who can muster the brightest and the best? Who can get the most Americans behind these new ideas?

We will hear our candidates address the nation, the world through the debates. Listen more to
how effectively they connect with that audience, rather than paying attention merely to who appears to “win” against the other.

While I disagree with how you characterize some of Obama's accomplishments (ACA was a miracle for many, and put us on the path to universal health care), it is a compelling case for Biden not going big with proposals.

Obama inspired hope for a better tomorrow. I think if Biden or someone else can inspire the masses, he or she will cinch the nomination.

I do admit, it is a turnoff to try and prove to someone (me) who was inspired by Obama that his accomplishments weren't that great. Or that his ideas were old proposals and he had little original to add. That bugs me.

the awful, awful press, is still popular.
I believe a political leader like Obama comes along once in a century maybe.
I once had a list of his accomplishments, of on how many fronts he succeeded, but this more by his genius for choosing the great idea or synthesizing from many or getting people to come together than by sitting alone dreaming up stuff. And he certainly did not put detailed draft plans of policies up when he was running.
He, the character, presence, dreams for us were inspiring.
Yes, the ACA was a plan, almost whole cloth, from one he had studied and seen work at a state level.
There is another gift he possessed which few do in public life. He was a gifted speaker. Although his style was different than MLK’s, one of the greatest speakers and writers in history, he had an oratorical but contemporary flair second to none. He had speech writers, yet always personally collaborated, often working an entire speech over so that it was in his own words, many passages, and bore that stamp of his personality. He wrote books, memoirs, that stand up as lyrical and eloquent biographies giving the measure of the man way before he ran for president.
Biden is not an Obama. But Obama turned to him for wisdom, guidance, and effective support.
Biden is, in image, more pedestrian, and never was the legal scholar Obama was. There is not a comparison to be made and Biden begs none.
I did not mean to undermine Obama’s accomplishments, but to say that it is often conviction and personal courage that puts ideas into action as well as the wisdom to take ideas that may have failed to come to fruition in the past, and marshall the means to make them realities. Such was the case with the Iran deal.
Obama also understood ideas and could test them. So when the pentagon had a tactical plan to get
Bin Laden, based on his utter dedication to finding him, he saw a logistics problem —what if the helicopter developed a problem, failed? He understood, though he was not a military guy, how easily the mission could be scuttled. So they had another helicopter standing by, which they did have to have use.
Originality so often is a more subtle matter than, as I try to show, is reinventing the wheel.
Great ideas that Republicans have scrapped or never would pass came out of Obama’s administration.
One of these came out of Eric Holder’s department, DOJ, a plan for police department accountability. I believe DOJ acted on what was a priority for Obama and Holder took charge of developing the plan. How much input did Obama have? This is what I am saying. We don’t know.
A leader sets the priorities based on a vision, and finds the best people and the best way to carry out that which otherwise would be a dream. He or she must make a number of Americans believe
in that idea, trust her.
The leader can not be tied down to a drawing board.
To me, an insistence on ideas replete with facts and figures, fully fleshed out as though a bill ready to go, is based on a misguided concept on what a president does.
Yes, many feel Obama was too middle of the road, not revolutionary in his ideas, and that by working within existing systems, betrayed their vote. I am not one of those.

And he chose Biden, so there is that, too.

but in my view Obama benefits from the very low bar set by his political opponents, predecessor and successor. Was he the best president in recent memory? Yes. Was he the best in history, or the best possible? No. Just my two cents.

Such a double standard.

The main people upset about Beto's honest are Biden supporters.

Honestly, I think O'Rourke, Buttigieg, Warren and Sanders are all on the same page with this. I think one of them will emerge from the pack, unite all the proponents of change and defeat Biden. Biden's best case is that the opposition stays divided and he wins by a plurality.

Mathews tried to draw Mayor Pete into naming Biden but he refused:-

BUTTIGIEG: ... we understand the need to transform the systems that we`re living in; not just tinker around the edges, not replicate what we`re used to. I guess the point is, if we have a campaign where the theme is, let`s go back to normal – then I think ...

MATTHEWS: That`s what Biden wants, isn`t it? You`re suggesting Biden

BUTTIGIEG: I`m not going to talk to anybody else`s campaign strategy.

There's no, "what's next" without beating Trump.

He's a smart guy but it's not sinking in yet - he's got to go after Trump and the GOP.

I heard the interview this morning and I was irked at the comments about President Obama and it appears that I am not alone

Link to tweet

And the border is important to him. He has also said Obama has inspired him more than any other candidate.

like Beto and I did, too. But, if he thinks dragging on President Obama is going to help him with voters like me.. he has another think coming.

Link to tweet

Beto is passionate about immigration. He lives right on the border and he knows far better than any of us about the situation there over the last decade. The ONLY negative thing I have ever heard him utter about Obama's administration, in which he did politely, was to point out that Obama DID deport a lot of people.

People are ALLOWED to disagree on policy and say so. That is in NO WAY an attack. That is how you differentiate yourself from others. That was also the question he was being asked in the interview. There was absolutely nothing he said that was untrue or inappropriate.

into what he offers beyond electability, especially given the current “wisdom” that he doesn’t have a prayer?
American public is pretty fickle. So who knows?

most important thing. If we can't beat Trump all the wonderful plans from our excellent candidates will be just so much wastepaper. He's absolutely right that we shouldn't return to the past. But getting rid of Trump is essential to everything else.