...but I hadn't heard of any of this.

Bussing was a very controversial action which was resisted by people on both sides. It's not hard to find politicians at the time making strong statements against the practice.

What's notable to me here is the way Biden is reported explaining his objections which spill into the reparations debate, for instance, and touches on other hotpoints in our nation's discussions on race.

the integration it sought, and spurred very ugly episodes of racism

Thinking back I think bussing actually may have created more racism. The intention may have been good but forcing it could be seen as a disaster. Biden may have actually been about 15 years early in his criticism of the concept but I believe he may have been right that it wasn't the solution.

unintentional consequences and stirred a lot of ugliness around. It attempted to right a wrong but ultimately backfired, hurting many that it had hoped to help.

There was a lot of truth to that, regardless of the merits of busing.

It does highlight the headaches Joe’s long career might create for his campaign which in my view is a problem. That being said like most people I’m more focused on the present and what his attitudes are right now on race, along with other equally important issues we face in the moment, and will face after the nightmare is over and reconstruction of our democratic institutions begins.

My comment on HuffPo is rooted in their recent trend of being hyper critical of all things Democrat going back to the fall when their coverage was doom and gloom 24-7 in the lead up to the midterms. HuffPo is basically Greenwald lite now.

@ DU at least.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=15844

...maybe because he didn't develop into a serious candidate.

But I agree that bussing was controversial with most everyone. What's notable to me is the bent of his statements against assuming responsibility for the vestiges of institutionalized racism.

Maybe he's already addressed this?

you almost never see any GOP candidates get "new scrutiny" over their actions of 40 years ago...

...what a strange statement. We demand they account for their nonsense and abuse all of the time.

Thing is, no one really expects them to not have racist shit in their past. It's not a fault to expect more from Democrats than we do republicans.

Remember Obama was the first “clean” AA candidate. Obama was so upset he made him his running mate.

There was a debate in Iowa prior to the caucus when Biden was asked about that remark and other missteps. He was convincingly contrite and then Obama graciously came to his defense, saying Joe is one of the good guys and the black community can always count on him.

I don’t think this 40-something year-old comment will matter.

...there are countless racial slights I can remember from well-meaning, otherwise decent people.

I think Biden is a good fellow, notable as you said for Obama to acknowledge that as he chose him as his counterpart in the WH. It was a move I think was intended to give comfort to voters like the folks I grew up with that there wouldn't be any antipathy in the Obama WH toward white America, despite earlier transgressions by some in our history.

It was a good move. America deserves to move past those eras of misunderstanding and division.

The other side of all of that are generations of Americans who have been directly impacted by the vestiges and consequences of racism who are, today, looking for clear leadership against the renewed atmosphere of hatred directed against their communities and person. There's so much tension and uncertainty under this present regime, it's not clear where that support is going to come from.

Something to consider before drawing the door closed on the past.

Like winning, first and foremost. I’m not comfortable with turning back the clock with Joe; he’s too old for my tastes. But experience can come in handy. As in understanding that associating yourself with the term “reparations” is something to avoid if you want to be President. Harris and Warren have each already gifted our opponents with unfortunate headlines that I’m pretty sure Biden would have sidestepped with ease.

...

February 27, 2019
Pelosi Signals Support for Commission to Study Slavery Reparations
https://news.yahoo.com/pelosi-signals-support-commission-study-211830567.html

...appeasing more conservative interests at the expense of other Democratic voter interests and concerns.

And reparation advocates have found validation from the leader of the branch of government Democrats managed to win back from republicans.

...he based his campaign on 'reaching out' to, and 'working with' republicans.

I'd like to think we've progressed past worrying more over appeasing people who never intended to vote for our candidates, than reaching out for the millions identifying with Democratic initiatives who regularly sit out elections.

I should note that Marist identifies some 58% of black Americans in favor of some form of reparations.

Obama made some mistakes but he did know how to win by 10 million votes first time out. His instincts on the issues were quite good, including reparations, IMO.

...and let me say this.

These kinds of issues endemic to the black community have always been characterized as alienating to the 'wider' electorate, meaning, of course, white voters. It's an attitude which has persisted, despite the fact that our party's most dependable voters are African Americans, particularly black women.

It may not be enough to get to that general campaign by giving short shrift to what a large majority of black voters support.

Boom. End of argument (for people who understand running on reparations is a fundamentally bad idea). The OP also doesn’t seem to understand this is an issue that cuts both ways. For every minority voter it attracts it just as likely activates 2-3 white RWNJ types. Unfortunately we have more of those in this country than we do black voters.

every year (until he left and it was picked up by Sheila Jackson-Lee) since 1989.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/40

It unfortunately never makes it out of committee to even do what the legislation basically requests - "establish a Commission" to gather data and study this sad chapter in American's history, NOT "pay reparations". One of the goals would be to see what could actually be reasonable or do-able (including remedies beyond "money" )... As an example, we have seen South Africa go through their "Truth and Reconciliation Commission" and the processes involved in that. But you would never get to that point when you cut it off before it even tries to get started.

The issue bubbled up again when Ta-Nahesi Coates wrote comprehensive cover story in The Atlantic magazine about 5 years ago taking a look at what some of the issues are.

The clock can’t go long enough of RBG.
The clock wasn’t that bad if Hillary was to run for a second term.

Suddenly the clock has run out for Joe.

50's and 60's and was told to call African Americans Negroes or colored people to be respectful. Biden has changed along with the rest of us.

I'm sure he -- like society as a whole, really -- has learned much in the past 44 years and I doubt he holds the same views today. If he does, it would be disqualifying. If he doesn't, there's no reason for me to hold something he said 44 years ago against him today.

...I'd like to hear him speak to that in this election.

Now that the evidence of Joey Biden actually running is in the 'yes, he's going to do it' category, the barrage begins.

Which shouldn't surprise anyone.

Uncle Joe has a long legislative and political legacy, both of which will be targeted by foes and friends alike. It's the nature of any campaign season. To Joe Biden's plus column, he's had years to fend off accusations and criticism. It really is all about how he defends his record, explains and reacts. His entry is going to deflate the expectations a lot of hopefuls. These stories coming out now may be an attempt to get Joe to reconsider.

But this is the sort of vetting all our candidates should be prepared for because it's going to be 10x worse in the General. If Donald Trump is the 2020 GOP candidate, he'll throw the kitchen sink at our nominee. Not merely to win but to save his own skin (or at least stall the inevitable) from the mounting criminal liability he and his family are facing.

I think Joe Biden still has juice. And if he truly has 'a fire in the belly,' these early assaults won't dissuade him from taking his last shot.

...haven't heard much about the future from him.

Lot's of stuff about his past. He's going to be a good candidate, I think, for folks who don't have interest in reaching too far. The caution candidate for the viability wing of the party.

electability, having someone who can take it to Donald Trump and his miserable enablers. We have to win in 2020 in order to put the train back on the track and repair the real damage already done, both in-country and abroad.

Joe Biden will need to defend his record, speak to the future and convince voters he's the best candidate to beat the Trumpster. If he does that, he will be our nominee. Not because Democratic voters are cautious but because they recognize the danger of reelecting an out-of-control criminal enterprise.

He was great and the students loved what he had to say about their future. It was packed. So packed in fact a few people fainted to hear him.

He was Senator for 30 years. He was elected VP twice. I think his skeletons have been vetted for years.

...he didn't attract much of a following in either of his previous runs for president.

I'm sure you don't mean that senator and VP holds the same level of scrutiny. There is a wide field offering a decidedly forward outlook on the nation which may not mesh well with his nostalgic run.

work from the 70’s. What happened after the touted civil rights picture. Where was he? Why did he move from a diverse state like New York to a very homogenous small state like Vermont. Needs vetting.

Biden came along for the ride, he wasn’t voted VP on his own

GOP attack dogs go for everyone.
Biden is still the most qualified person running.

It will be up to Joe Biden to maximize that, speak to the future and convince the primary voters that he has the best shot at taking down the Trumpster. For me that's the most important quality for any of these candidates: winning, knocking out Trump and his entire dirty enterprise, a massive, indisputable repudiation.

I think Biden still has juice, has the ability to deliver a death blow to the Squatter-in-Chief. But he has to convince the primary electorate in order to do that. And that means running the primary gauntlet, making his case, reacting and responding to all the various criticisms, surviving until the end.

We shall see. I know I'll be watching and waiting.

And then, there's Beto O'Rourke. Things could get very interesting.

Although I think there will be a real push for a woman on the ticket. So, maybe Biden/Harris?

We shall see!

Last edited Fri Mar 8, 2019, 12:25 AM - Edit history (1)

There are a lot more troubling remarks to come. As I've been saying, there are reasons why pre-Obama Biden never came close to being considered a good option. Obama made a smart, strategic choice in picking Biden as his running mate, but president? No thanks.

I'm far from alone in that sentiment: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/election/campaigns/article226007090.html

And your link is a 404 dead end. Cute.

Some gaffes, no matter who has made them, will be mitigated based on whether trump is infinitely more obviously guilty of the underlying offense.

Common criticism example- flip
flopping - trump does it 100 times a day. How can we be accused of the typical over-spending meme now? With deficits so high? Obviously one of the few critiques they have left is to accuse us of wanting our country to become socialists. (Spewed like a dirty word to people who have no idea what that means but it sounds scary)

And some of a candidate's flaws and history will matter more to Dems during a primary vs. to all voters in the general. A compromise vote with the other side might be unacceptable here yet looked at as a plus to the masses of voters who like people who work with the other side.

The question is whether we beat our own up so bad they can make it through as viable.

Being hypocritical has risen to epic proportions in the last two years.

But Lots and lots of folks feel differently.

This was a time when white mobs were literally overturning bus of black kids trying to go school.

It is, and always has been, about judgement.

There are other reasons I don't support VP Biden in this primary but these comments aren't helping me want to change my mind. And to think around this time Bernie was putting himself in front of bulldozers to keep poor black children from learning in dilapidated trailors.

That's not the only skeleton in Joe's closet either.

All of it will get a good two year airing out in public when Joe jumps in.

This is a stretch.

...he wasn't a child.

He was a public official.

I'll bet he touts aspects of his public service from then.

Many people, even well meaning ones, had different views that many decades ago.

...but if he's a leading candidate, I think he'll be challenged to discuss this.

I've seen epiphanies from Joe Biden in the past, so he can probably make a good case for himself.

I do, however, think often about those of us who are more circumspect in our beliefs and projections, and I think these exceptional folks deserve credit for making good choices.

It wasn't that unusual for politicians of that time and background, but he really put his foot in it.

explain certain things they wrote. I don't think they do.

If one candidate over any other ? This sucks

For 6th and 7th grade. I don't know if it was "good" or "bad" at the time, the school was actually shut down a few times due to brawls involving whites vs. blacks, like 100+ people involved. We climbed on top of the roof of a walkway one day to escape the chaos.

Basically all the white families that could afford it pulled their kids from public school and fueled the push to private schools. My younger brother was sent to a private school for middle and high school grades. We moved before I went into 8th grade to a small rural county that only had one middle school and one high school (population was 55% white and 40% black) and I was in public school through high school. Everyone got along much better out in the rural area because basically most people were poor.

I think the major underlying conflict in my 1980s bussing situation was more about economics, you had mostly middle class and rich white kids mixed in with mostly poor black kids, it was a huge clash. Out in the rural area, almost everyone was poor and mostly got along.

How will she do in TX? What is her foreign policy experience? What bills has she sponsored? How will she rebut the accusations about how there was sexual harrassment in her office she didn't know about? How will she explain that she wasn't aware that her colleague of 12 years, was accused of sexual harrassment?

We are doing the same thing ..trying to understand the past.

...

absolutely care that the most important thing is to rid the scourge of trump, you would never say that. It's not the time to pick the perfect person who matches us to a tee. It's a time to insure we will win.

...it would be a shame if Democrats allowed themselves to be cowed into choosing a blast from the past out of fear of how republican might react to our nominee.

It should be an embarrassment to take such a defensive crouch, even more so given Biden's previous primary failures.

Newcomer Obama's advance was a bold step by Democrats looking to the future, instead of leaning on the past. We got a slew of new voters in that change election. Biden may well want to recreate that, but his candidacy would simply be a regression, a reversion, a snapshot of the past against a fairly progressive field of Democratic presidential aspirants.

Which doesn't look so bad from where I'm standing.

...not by a longshot.

He's basically the flip side of that Democratic coin.

Possibility that someone like Joe would drag us backwards than a more liberal unknown quantity. Of course, this is looking at it through the lens of what we need to beat trump. And electing Joe does not mean that the other people we admire so much will go away.

...in an election where people are clamoring for change.

Never a good idea to go into a contest looking to just hold ground. Joe's colloquialisms about the Obama era might be a good introduction to the campaign, but a big yawn to a Democratic electorate looking to advance our agenda on pressing issues like climate change, equal pay, medical coverage that extends beyond his administration's landmark achievement to cover more people and reduce individual costs.

So far, what Biden is selling is a false sense of security which is actually a complacent view of what Democratic voters are looking for. I really hope 'viability' isn't the totality of his appeal.

Is clamoring for change. It's about winning this time. Didn't the polls say that. Beat trump... moderate to do it. I just happen to be lucky. I really like him! Most qualified - opposite of trump. Most decent - anthesis if trump. Respected by other side. Can win the states we need with his working class appeal and roots.

Again. It doesn't mean all the great progressives running have to go away. They can affect the change we all want in powerful positions in a Biden administration.

...it's about expanding your base of voters.

Obama was able to do this because of the attraction of a newly energized community of African-Americans voting in the 90% range for the first black president.

Hillary had a lot of that appeal with women (who already made up a huge, reliable voting bloc) who provided a similar influx of new, and newly energized voters.

In both cases, the overwhelmingly Democratic side of that support made it easier to overcome any shortcoming from other groups of voters, like white males (African American women are a huge factor in Democratic elections).

What Biden is angling for, if he runs, is the old strategy of peeling off enough republican 'moderates' to make up for what would be a mostly static Democratic electorate, repressed by a campaign of moderation and open fear of conservatives who have been revealed under Trump to be a discredited, corrupt sham of an ideology and party.

We can't point the way to the future with our back foot.

Thinks since he hasn't announced yet.

In normal times I might totally agree with you. But today, safety with someone who is very palatable to me sounds good to me. Maybe it depends on how much you hate trump? Or rather think he's a danger. If it's the lens you are looking through you don't want to take any risk at all.

Hell, we don't even really know who we are running against. Mueller may soil him enough to keep the nomination from him.

The distractions are socialism ...and bussing.

Many horror stories.

My wife was in HS in Houston at the time.
She has stories that would curl your hair.

It forced a bunch of turmoil among children and teenagers that had to endure it. I think it created more lingering racism through a couple of generations.

Thus no matter how often this sort of ancient history is presented, I don't care.

I don't think so frankly.

he can beat Trump. I don't know that any of the others can.

He has moved and re-evaluated what his younger self was believing.. We are bedeviled now with a resident in the White House that cannot admit a mistake, and look where it has got us.. The perfect person does not exist.. But a person who is willing to change.. willing to relook at previous thoughts.. is exactly who I am looking for.. Not someone locked in their belief system like stone.. no one is perfect..no philosophy or political stance is perfect..

Who hasn't evolved and can identify with a candidate who becomes more tolerant and more enlightened. We can all look to our own families to see that. Stark difference between moving from intolerance to more tolerance and someone like trump who moved toward hate.

You can not look at old statements from yesteryear through the eyes/lens of what we think today.

40 years of growing up will also deny perfection.

40 years of gaining experience implicitly suggests there was a period of a lack of experience.




We'll dig up the deepest bones if necessary... and pretend it's sincere and for the greater good.

...but that would serve to devalue them.