Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumSteve Kornacki tweeted two 1970s polls showing how unpopular busing was in Delaware then
He tweeted these the evening of the 27th. Didn't see them till now, when I ran across them in a reply to a Tom Nichols thread on Twitter (Nichols, a NeverTrumper and one of Trump's harshest critics on Twitter, plans to vote for the Democratic nominee but is very upset with Harris's attack on Biden over busing).
Kornacki's tweets:
Link to tweet
Link to tweet
I wanted to post this as a companion thread to my OP about what Larry Sabato wrote on Twitter about political reality in Delaware in the 1970s and why it's a mistake to try to view that time through the lens of 2019:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287179249
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BlueIdaho
(13,582 posts)Historical context can provide a valuable yardstick.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
George II
(67,782 posts)..."desegregate" schools, but the underlying problem was segregated neighborhoods.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
chimpymustgo
(12,774 posts)neighborhoods were the underlying problem. But white racism was the manifestation.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
madaboutharry
(40,220 posts)I blame his staff and advisors for this. They did not properly prepare him for the debate. He has been in politics since he was in his late 20's. He has to be able to answer for his record.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
highplainsdem
(49,041 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
mr_lebowski
(33,643 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
randr
(12,415 posts)He should have responded by saying that the positive side of busing produced citizens like Kamala Harris and similar integration efforts would do the same. His opposition was based on his responsibility to his constituency at the time.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
BeyondGeography
(39,380 posts)Aides said they had urged Biden to find a less toxic example.
It might move him to pick a different senator, said one adviser, speaking on the condition of anonymity to discuss internal deliberations. But hes not someone you can go to and just say, Youve been doing this x number of years and you cant do this anymore.?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Cosmocat
(14,574 posts)nm
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
mr_liberal
(1,017 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demit
(11,238 posts)in his rebuttal? I guess it would've been awkward to draw attention to the fact that whites were overwhelmingly more opposed to busing than blacks were.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Mr.Bill
(24,330 posts)if she would start the bussing back up if she was elected.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
wyldwolf
(43,870 posts)The Government "sometimes does bad in the guise of good things." According to Sanders, in the long run, busing, as a means toward quality education for all school children, creates racial hostility where it did not previously exist.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cha
(297,692 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
RHMerriman
(1,376 posts)How "hurtful" of Kornacki to point out historical and political realities, especially for a junior and liberal Democratic member of Congress in a conservative border state where the Republicans were running hard under the Southern Strategy.
Well, I'm sure the tough as nails ex-prosecutor who gets emotional and puts a quaver in her voice on national television will set HIM straight.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Its really working for you.
Sid
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
RHMerriman
(1,376 posts)Works great ... her Hail Mary was just that: "Look at me!"
Biden was at 45 percent favorable with AA: she was at 5. Pretty obvious what this pathetic little flap was all about.
FWIW, the Berkeley public schools were NOT de jure segregated by race, as well; attendance was organized by residential neighborhoods, which meant de facto by wealth, but unless you're going to say housing prices are something to be regulated by the federal government, it's a moot point.
See:
[link:https://www.berkeleyschools.net/2018/12/50th-anniversary-of-berkeleys-pioneering-busing-plan-for-school-integration/|]
Pretending the child of two University of California PHds - in Berkeley - in the 1970s was somehow underprivileged is ludicrous.
It's a stupid argument, a cheap shot, and generally makes her look both cynical and emotionally manipulative, which is not a winning look for someone trying to get political support from across a diverse party that wants to see Trump defeated in 2020.
Self-righteousness - especially against a fellow Democrat - is not going to work.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)Newly elected Florida Governor Reuben Askew stood before a packed, all White stadium at the University of Florida and essentially said that the time for segregation in public education was over, the state had to, it must, and it will integrate all public schools, including all universities. A few month later, Florida launched on a widespread and largely successful effort to integrate it's public schools and universities. Askew would become a two term governor and sits in time as maybe the greatest Florida Governor (some say Faircloth is).
Jimmy Carter fought with the racist Lester Mattox over integration of society. In Georgia at the height of the fight against integration. Carter would go on to become a two term governor and US President.
Carter and Askew took both political and PHYSICAL risks during that time. Biden seems to have taken neither.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
dawg day
(7,947 posts)The ACA wasn't popular either.
Surely there's some courage involved in doing the UNpopular thing if you think it's the right thing.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Goodheart
(5,345 posts)Did Joe say "I was opposed to busing because it was unpopular?"
No, he did not.
He said, instead, that he was never, ever opposed to voluntary busing.
So what point are you trying to make? I still haven't seen anyone successfully absolve Joe of his double talk polispeak there.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cha
(297,692 posts)You think it shouldn't have been posted?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Goodheart
(5,345 posts)If that's what was intended the OP did just the opposite.
Here's my own perspective: In the heat of the moment Biden didn't know how to defend his opposition to busing so went with some lame "I was never opposed to VOLUNTARY busing" as if any segregationist state would have done so. It was disingenuous.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cha
(297,692 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Vegas Roller
(704 posts)He could have answered harshly but he didn't want to make a fool of Sen. Harris by responding too harshly.
Nevertheless, if you decision is primarily dependent upon busing votes in the 1970's, I have no quarrel with that.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Vegas Roller
(704 posts)If you want this election to be about busing,
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Duppers
(28,127 posts)It's a "let's slam Joe" post.
Again: Back in the early 70s, the men controlling these House committees were segregationists and the then 27yo Biden knew he had to compromise with these a.holes in order to get anywhere.
Stop these circular firing squads. They're benefiting Trump. What we need to decide is who is the best candidate to beat IQ45. Period.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Skittles
(153,193 posts)no matter how illogical
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
bluewater
(5,376 posts)Opposition to busing had huge racial undercurrents.
Denying that is denying reality.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
frazzled
(18,402 posts)It usually meant busing black kids away from their home neighborhoods into (sometimes far off ) white neighborhoods. Most whites opposed it because of either racism or fear. Many blacks didnt like it because, well, why should only their kids have to endure a long bus ride?
But it didnt have to be that way. When my kids were in school, all parents (black, white, Southeast Asian, Native American) were given a choice about where to send their kids within their geographic subdistrict. There were 5 types of public schools in each of these parts of the city, each based on a different types of instructional philosophy. I chose to send my (white) kids to a school that was a 20-30 minute bus ride away because it seemed a perfect fit. There were kids of every race, ethnicity, and socio-economic status in that school. And it was a superb educational and social experiencefor everyone.
Desegregation can work (and we need it to work if we are ever to overcome divisions), but only if it is done thoughtfully, equitably, and creatively. Classic busing was not that most times.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
TeamPooka
(24,256 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
wyldwolf
(43,870 posts).. your point is the government was making people do things they didn't want to do.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
TeamPooka
(24,256 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
wyldwolf
(43,870 posts)Beside the point though.
The government at first forced slaves. The government forced busing. Both instances the US government forced people to do things they didnt want to do.
If we want to carry out the comparison to get some logical conclusion, slavery was grossliy immoral but quite effective at building the US economy. The entire country was built on the backs of slaves.
Forced busing was a program with good intentions but was extemely unpopular and
largely ineffective.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
asiliveandbreathe
(8,203 posts)https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2016/10/05/495504360/looking-back-on-50-years-of-busing-in-boston
McGuire has run the METCO program which stands for the Metropolitan Council for Educational Opportunity for the past 40 years. When she started the program, she was a schoolteacher in the Boston public school system.
The ills of racism still exist, but people are working for a better community...together...for many, many years....the more information WE have, the better WE are for it....
https://metcoinc.org/
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BlueWI
(1,736 posts)It would be simpler if Biden could signal respect for Harris with his first statement (Senator Harris, I have respect for your truth and experience, but I see things differently) and go on to say much of what he did say. He could have easily claimed the high ground that way.
I would add that most of us who were alive in the 1970s know that contexts have changed since then, especially those of us who actually experienced busing for racial integration. Yes, we noticed that white people didn't care for our presence at "their" schools, and I won't rate it as my favorite school experience either as a person of color. Being called the n-word and being marginalized by culturally incompetent staff did not lead to broad popularity of busing among black people across the board, although some appreciated the effort to institute a remedy, as opposed to the disinterest that is too common today about continuing segregation.
Commonly though, the way that anti-busing arguments were framed in the1970s eptomized white privilege and open racism. Biden, to some extent, represented the white suburban property owner mindset, with legal segregation only out of force for less than a decade. That's part of why James Eastland and Joe Biden could find common ground on the issue, as Biden himself unwisely reminded us.
If anyone needs to study the difference in contexts, it's Biden. All Democrats need him to be stronger in his communication, and probably his policies, on issues of racial disparity. His supporters are doing him no favors by not seeing this, and at least Biden's campaign staff will coach him up, as they obvious need to do.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided