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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!
 

wyldwolf

(43,869 posts)
Wed Jul 31, 2019, 07:24 AM Jul 2019

It's a center-left party after all

Sanders and Warren kept their voices but a parade of centrists finally found theirs.

The assignment of Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren to the same debate stage in Detroit Tuesday night was random chance, but turned out to be a well-timed and clarifying event.

There was the possibility that the two heroes of the left would sharpen the differences between them in the competition over who is the fairest of them all. But very little of that came to pass.


Instead, the combined Warren-Sanders presence emboldened most other voices in the first round of a two-night debate to say they wouldn’t enter the derby over who is most ideologically pure. The real argument, they urged, should be over who is most credible general election adversary to Donald Trump and potential president in 2021.

It wasn’t exactly an invigorating evening. It was too long (closing in on 2 hours, 45 minutes) and too disorienting (candidates clamoring to be heard; moderators laboring with impatient “thank yous” to shut down answers that went over time) for that.

But in its discursive way it was illuminating: The debate showed a party arguing seriously about the inherent tension between boldness and realism, passion and prudence, on such topics as improving health care, immigration, taking on wealthy interests, and the best way broadly to energize average voters.

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/07/31/detroit-democratic-debate-2019-warren-sanders-1442208
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
11 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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JI7

(89,262 posts)
1. i'm glad people like Bullock and HIckenlooper emphasize the PROGRESS in progressive. and how they
Wed Jul 31, 2019, 07:29 AM
Jul 2019

have a record of actually getting things done.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

MontanaFarmer

(630 posts)
2. I agree, and that's a specific example
Wed Jul 31, 2019, 07:34 AM
Jul 2019

if why a governor sometimes makes a better candidate than a senator. Washington gets awfully theoretical at times, and people who've run purple or red states sometimes have a better grasp on what's achievable.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Chemisse

(30,816 posts)
3. This actually helped me clarify my own degree of leftishness.
Wed Jul 31, 2019, 08:17 AM
Jul 2019

And I found that Bernie and Warren went too far for me, in these ways:

Medicare for All seems more like an infliction, rather than a progression from Obamacare expansion to single-payer options that I would like to see and which would be less painful.

I don't think everyone who enters the country should be afforded a health care plan, although of course they should receive treatment when medically necessary.

I don't think now-illegal border crossings should be decriminalized. (We can always decline to prosecute).

What we heard last night of the Green New Deal sounds great, but I would like to hear more of the specifics, particularly those aspects not directly related to the environment, before I agree on it as a package.

These points are areas that would make us very vulnerable to average, middle-of-the-road voters in a general election.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

progressoid

(49,996 posts)
4. "boldness and realism"
Wed Jul 31, 2019, 08:25 AM
Jul 2019

Those two aren't incompatible.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

OKNancy

(41,832 posts)
5. Democrats can be very left/progressive, but also
Wed Jul 31, 2019, 08:35 AM
Jul 2019

We can be pragmatic and understand POLITICS.

For example: The comparison with now and 1964 when Medicare was passed.
Democrats had overwhelming majorities in the House and Senate. After Kennedy's assassination, the country
was on the Democrat's side.

It was not like now at all. It's easy to be bold when the political will and Congress are on your side.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

TCJ70

(4,387 posts)
6. Quote from Warren last night:
Wed Jul 31, 2019, 08:55 AM
Jul 2019
I don't understand why anybody goes to all the trouble of running for president of the United States just to talk about what we really can't do and shouldn't fight for


https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/455451-crowd-erupts-after-warren-calls-out-candidates-saying-progressive-policies?amp

This is what's frustrates me about any conversation about centrists vs. progressives vs. [Insert ideological label here]. I think we are too quick to label things "promises" in politics anymore. I doubt Sanders or Warren really think they'll be able to get a full on, single payer, no private insurance system done. I've definitely never viewed it as a promise. But that's the direction they'll work towards. Having that as the end goal suggests strongly, to me, that whatever compromises have to happen will be compromises that move us the furthest towards that goal. That's why these candidates appeal to me. I don't want someone to start in "the middle" (whatever that means...) and end up just taking baby steps.

It really makes me wonder if the "centrist" candidates really think they can get their agenda done. They seem very quick to write off the aspirations of their opponents with seemingly no thought as to how they would get their own stuff done.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

theaocp

(4,244 posts)
9. They come off as ignorant of negotiating and their supporters
Wed Jul 31, 2019, 12:49 PM
Jul 2019

have their starting point the same as their ending point. Like they have a fucking magic wand or something. What counts for a "promise" to them is not counted as a "promise" from their end. That's just understanding politics. If they don't dream, they can't be held to account.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
7. I saw 5 liberal Dems, spanning the strong-center-moderate left spectrum;
Wed Jul 31, 2019, 09:18 AM
Jul 2019

1 far left, anti-establishment, semicloseted socialist; 3 who are overall moderate/centrist and mostly socially liberal/fiscally conservative; and 1 Marianne Williamson who probably fits best with Sanders.

Good for Warren and Sanders for having the sense to pull together for common goals in spite of their great differences. Sanders embodies belief in Eldridge Cleaver's frequent statement that if you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem, and to him, of course, establishment-Dem Warren is a serious part of the problem, the more so for being a credible FDR-type iconoclaust.

I wouldn't vote for #FiveWhiteMen Ryan for dog catcher, and I suspect he's been tailoring his voting record to appear more liberal to support his current presidential run, similar to blue dog Delaney's,, but they do at least illustrate how huge the difference can be between some of our blue dog conservatives and the conservative congressmen in the Republican Party.



If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

elocs

(22,597 posts)
8. About half of Democrats identify as being moderate,
Wed Jul 31, 2019, 12:32 PM
Jul 2019

so of course it's a center/left party.
But getting called a "DINO" or "Republican-Lite" has gotten old for someone who has voted for every Democratic candidate for president starting with McGovern just because I'm not as Liberal as some Democrats.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Peacetrain

(22,878 posts)
10. True that.. I know I live it..
Wed Jul 31, 2019, 01:00 PM
Jul 2019

In Iowa., the active party people are hard left.. the rest of the Democratic party here are center left..

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

silentEcho

(424 posts)
11. Warren is a solid Dem aligned with the Democratic Party. I can easily move to Harris.
Wed Jul 31, 2019, 01:44 PM
Jul 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
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