Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumHarris's press secretary linked to CA article he thinks refutes Biden & Gabbard. It doesn't.
It points out some details they got wrong, while confirming much of what they said about Harris's record.
And his tweet is getting a lot of replies pointing that out.
Tweet from Ian Sams about an article in the San Jose Mercury News fact-checking what Biden and Gabbard said about Harris's criminal justice record:
Link to tweet
Link to the article:
https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/08/01/democratic-debate-kamala-harris-tulsi-gabbard-joe-biden-fact-check/
Re Biden's critique of Harris's record, when he talked about a scandal in Harris's last year as San Francisco district attorney: That was, according to the fact-check, correct in describing the broad outlines, but he missed some details and got others wrong. (I have to add that this isn't surprising in a debate setting, especially with very limited time.)
Several members of Harris staff had had concerns about the technician but continued to prosecute cases based on the labs work and failed to tell defense attorneys about the issue for months. (Harris has said she wasnt told about the problem until it became public.) After blistering criticism from a state judge, who wrote in May 2010 that Harris prosecutors failed to disclose information that clearly should have been disclosed, Harris moved to dismiss about 1,000 drug cases.
Harris had also failed to set a written policy for disclosing potentially exculpatory evidence to defense attorneys even though staffers recommended she set one in 2005, five years before the scandal broke into public view, the Wall Street Journal reported.
At the time, Harris was slow to admit fault, with her office originally accusing the judge of bias because she was married to a defense attorney. But she took responsibility in an interview with the Washington Post this year, saying, the buck stops with me.
Some of the details Biden got wrong include: Harris office moved for the cases to be dropped, not the judge. Not all 1,000 cases involved inmates who were freed. The lab tech was not a police officer. And the judge in the case was a state judge, not a federal judge (and a woman, not a man).
So Biden got the basics of the story right.
Now, moving on to the much longer part of the article about Gabbard's charges against Harris:
In the "Death Row Appeals" section, the paper basically supports what Gabbard said.
In the "Inmate Labor" section, the paper explains that attorneys in Harris's AG office did argue that the state shouldn't release some prisoners who were helping fight wildfires. The judge ruled against them. Harris said she wasn't aware her attorneys had made that argument.
In the "Cash bail" section, the paper basically backs what Gabbard said. Harris was in favor of cash bail while SF DA and in fact wanted higher cash bail in gun cases, and the city hiked the bail rates. Harris has since, in the last couple of years, changed her mind about cash bail.
In the "Marijuana prosecutions" section, the paper points out that the statistic cited was highly misleading. Gabbard said Harris put 1,500 people in jail for marijuana violations, but laughed about her own marijuana use during an interview. What Gabbard said about the interview was correct. The statistic was wrong because it referred to the number of people sent to prison state-wide while Harris was AG, and the paper points out that the AG doesn't prosecute most of those cases, which are prosecuted by district attorneys in each county.
But the paper adds this:
And they also note Harris's "mixed record on marijuana."
Anyway, this is the article Harris's press secretary believes shows that what Biden and Gabbard said consisted of "dishonest smears."
I don't think it does that, and neither do most of the people whose replies to his tweet I've read.
It does flesh out what they said, and it corrects some details, including the major statistical mistake Gabbard made talking about marijuana violations. But it also points out that the paper couldn't get data yet on the number of pot convictions in SF during Harris's years as DA there. Years after she'd been smoking pot herself.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
W_HAMILTON
(7,871 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
highplainsdem
(49,022 posts)specifically points out that Harris prosecuted marijuana cases while SF DA, but the paper doesn't know how many people she prosecuted, couldn't get that data yet.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
W_HAMILTON
(7,871 posts)Furthermore, her claim that Harris "kept people in prison beyond their sentences to use them as cheap labor" was also found to be a lie because it was actually attorneys in her office that were found to be doing that without Harris's knowledge and Harris publicly criticized them for their actions when she found out about that practice.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
highplainsdem
(49,022 posts)makes it clear that Harris did prosecute marijuana violations herself. The paper just hasn't been able to find out how many.
Re the parts of the article where Harris said she wasn't aware of what people working for her were doing -- that's presented as what Harris said herself, and not as something corroborated by others involved. Maybe it was, or could be. But the article does not present as a fact that Harris didn't know. The article says Harris said she didn't know.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
W_HAMILTON
(7,871 posts)Despicable.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Andy823
(11,495 posts)"the enemy of my enemy is my friend", even if the person says trump is innocent, and is a favorite of Fox News, has Russian trolls supporting her on social media, and has Russia tv siding with her. Yep, who cares about the truth if you can make your current "enemy" look bad!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
highplainsdem
(49,022 posts)so you can make an ad hominem argument against Gabbard and anything problematic about Harris's reord goes away.
But that fact-checking article in the Mercury News refers to:
blistering criticism from a state judge
Harris had also failed to set a written policy for disclosing potentially exculpatory evidence to defense attorneys even though staffers recommended she set one in 2005, five years before the scandal broke into public view
At the time, Harris was slow to admit fault, with her office originally accusing the judge of bias because she was married to a defense attorney.
Harriss attorney general office did block DNA testing that some legal observers believe could have helped overturn the murder conviction of a death row inmate
her office defended a murder conviction in which a prosecutor allowed false testimony in court. That provoked harsh criticism of her office from a federal appeals court panel
That's a small part of Harris's history in those jobs.
And except for that statistic Gabbard got wrong because the source she quoted got it wrong, this is factual.
Californians who followed the news during that time have heard some of this. People outside California are less likely to know about it, but with Harris running for president, she should have realized people would be looking at her record, just as she insisted on looking at Biden's.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
wasupaloopa
(4,516 posts)but trying to keep him in the lead by making claims about another good Dem is not going to help him.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
SunsetDreams2
(268 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
highplainsdem
(49,022 posts)by Harris's press secretary as "dishonest smears" when they were basically accurate, except for the mistake Gabbard made relying on a source that got a statistic wrong, and for minor details.
It was Harris's press secretary who brought up this fact check in the Mercury News. I noticed right away that it basically confirmed most of what Biden (especially) and Gabbard said, and I looked through the replies and saw other people responding there noticed the same thing. So I posted about it.
And I think the article is helpful for any DUers who want more background info. I posted the link, and DUers can read it in its entiirety..
And since Harris's press secretary posted the link, he apparently wants people to read it.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
SunsetDreams2
(268 posts)California didn't legalize weed for recreation until 2018
Marijuana Legalization Goes into Effect in 2018
After the approval of the Marijuana Act in 2016, weed will be legal in the state of California starting Jan. 1, 2018.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Timeline-Marijuana-Legalization-in-California-464268753.html%3famp=y
If it wasnt legal until 2018, attacking Harris for following state law between 2011 and 2016 is utter nonsense.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
questionseverything
(9,657 posts)voters want
she has several instances of"she didn't know" her office or her deputies were doing illegal stuff
she tried to keep a guy on death row by refusing dna evidence til a judge intervened
<shrugs>
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
SunsetDreams2
(268 posts)Sen. Kamala Harris Introduces Law to Federally Legalize, Tax Marijuana
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/kamala-harris-marijuana-bill-legalize-tax-weed-pot-862192/amp/
She tried to keep a guy on death row...
You mean Kevin Cooper?
Coopers scheduled execution in 2004 was stayed when a federal appellate court in San Francisco called for further review of scientific evidence that Ramos said led another judge to determine that Cooper alone was responsible for these terrible murders.
A San Diego judge in 2011 blocked Coopers request for a third round of DNA testing.
..
Interest was renewed by a column last week by New York Times columnist Nicholas Kristof suggesting Cooper was framed. U.S. Senator Kamala Harris, who previously was the states attorney general, and Democratic gubernatorial candidate and state Treasurer John Chiang are among those supporting new DNA tests.
https://www.apnews.com/9a82ea30828742408b416f180c65f26d
Whats the next goal?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
questionseverything
(9,657 posts)by decriminalizing people can still be ordered to drug court, fined ,jailed on and on
the worst criminal should have due process, in America that includes untainted evidence
<shrugs>
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
SunsetDreams2
(268 posts)<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Making marijuana legal at the federal level is the smart thing to do and its the right thing to do. Today, Im announcing my support for <a href="https://twitter.com/CoryBooker?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@CoryBooker</a>s Marijuana Justice Act. <a href="https://t.co/cOh3SjMaOW">pic.twitter.com/cOh3SjMaOW</a></p> Kamala Harris (@SenKamalaHarris) <a href="
Link to tweet
?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 10, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
questionseverything
(9,657 posts)as biden says, she has several plans
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
SunsetDreams2
(268 posts)that are aimed at LEGALIZING and DECRIMINALIZING marijuana at the Federal Level. If you cant understand that, I dont know what to tell you. Have a good night, Ive got some work to do.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
questionseverything
(9,657 posts)if a judge orders a person to do drug court, which harris plan would allow, and the person doesn't do everything exactly right, the person can still be jailed
they are not the same thing and her stance now seems to be harsher than when she backed the earlier bill
biden is wrong about mj too if it makes you feel any better
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,632 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Trenzalore
(2,331 posts)She was having a mediocre debate and she got punched in the face from a direction she wasn't expecting.
Joe just has to be able to stand up for himself to seem effective.
I do expect there to be backlash for attacking President Obama's record at some point. The candidates hoping for attention really need to stop doing that.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Princetonian
(1,501 posts)Hmmm... I was told otherwise on another thread.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
4now
(1,596 posts)even though she was a pot smoker herself?
They just don't know how many were convicted.
Very strange.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
highplainsdem
(49,022 posts)Video of that interview from CNN:
https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2019/02/11/kamala-harris-marijuana-radio-int-orig-vstop-bdk.cnn
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
melman
(7,681 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
mopinko
(70,179 posts)i dont remember hearing much about it before the last year or 2. it has been an issue here in cook county.
the fact that she wanted higher bail for gun crimes is a GOOD thing.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
highplainsdem
(49,022 posts)several years ago, since I ran across it while researching ALEC:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x594171
https://www.npr.org/2010/01/21/122725771/Bail-Burden-Keeps-U-S-Jails-Stuffed-With-Inmates
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Princetonian
(1,501 posts)According to the article, Harris has "since changed her tune, criticizing cash bail and pushing for national reform."
Do you think that is a bad decision on her part?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
mopinko
(70,179 posts)i think at this point there is a pretty strong consensus, at least among sane people, that cash bail doesnt do what we think it does.
it has been overhauled here in cook county (i cant give you details) with very little opposition.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
highplainsdem
(49,022 posts)Wow, just found an article on the problems in Cook County, and how fast gang members got out of jail even when bonds were raised.
https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/breaking/ct-chicago-guns-cook-county-bonds-20170127-story.html
That's from January 2017.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
mopinko
(70,179 posts)and realizing that the bad guys had the most money.
bit of a warning, tho, that the only opposition came from the fop, and this story is part spin and resistance.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
oasis
(49,398 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden