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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!
 

Gothmog

(145,479 posts)
Thu Aug 15, 2019, 10:19 AM Aug 2019

Are Biden's Opponents Being Too Coy In Making Age An Issue?

I agree with Nate that the emphasis on Biden's so-called gaffes are merely disguised attacks on Biden's age.




Maybe anti-Biden Democrats — and the other candidates — think they’re being coy by using Biden’s gaffes as a proxy for concerns about his age. No reason to get tarred with allegations of ageism, they figure, or to risk offending older voters who turn out in big numbers in the primaries. (Also, if the candidate they prefer to Biden is Bernie Sanders, they have the further problem that Sanders is a year older than Biden at 77.)1 Show rather than tell, as the maxim goes: Plant a few seeds and let voters build a narrative about Biden’s age on their own, without you having to give them the hard sell.

This strategy might even work! It’s still fairly early, and Biden’s age is perhaps his biggest risk factor — bigger, in my view, than his policy positions, which are often more in line with the views of the average Democrat than those of the more liberal candidates.
But especially in the era of Trump — who, of course, has already begun to question Biden’s mental fitness — there might also be something to be said for saying the quiet part out loud. In a poll conducted shortly after the first debate, a lot of Democratic voters explicitly used Swalwell’s “pass the torch” language when asked an open-ended question about why they didn’t want to vote for Biden.

And they were much more likely to explicitly mention Biden’s age than to use vaguer responses, such as that he was “out of touch.”
There’s also risk to anti-Biden Democrats in drawing voters’ attention to gaffes or other incidents that voters view as relatively minor. Biden remains an extremely well-liked figure among Democratic voters; 75 percent of them have a favorable view of him, according to Morning Consult’s latest polling. So three-quarters of the electorate is going to start with a predilection against sympathizing with critiques of Biden. If those critiques aren’t really bringing the goods and instead seem like petty grievances, those Democrats may conclude that the case against Biden is a lot of hot air.

Meanwhile, if the false alarms continue — Democrats on Twitter or on podcasts predict Biden’s demise and the polls are unmoved — the media may come to view Biden as a Trump-like “teflon” candidate who isn’t greatly affected by gaffes and scandals. That could reduce their appetite for covering them in the future — even if more serious ones occur than what’s taken place to date.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
47 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Are Biden's Opponents Being Too Coy In Making Age An Issue? (Original Post) Gothmog Aug 2019 OP
I don't think so FBaggins Aug 2019 #1
They'll be complete fools if they try to make age a factor. They can't go after Biden's age without highplainsdem Aug 2019 #2
Warren is 6 years younger than Biden, 7 years younger than Sanders bluewater Aug 2019 #3
Not true that women age better. Particularly in their 70s, women have a miuch higher risk highplainsdem Aug 2019 #5
Age-related cognitive decline: Women are more resilient than men bluewater Aug 2019 #6
Do you really think that trump will be able to use this issue in the real world? Gothmog Aug 2019 #17
Biden needs to win the 2020 Nomination first. bluewater Aug 2019 #22
Joe Biden is the most electable candidate that the Democratic Party has available Gothmog Aug 2019 #23
Perfectly understandable opinion. bluewater Aug 2019 #26
NYT-Many Democrats Worried About Warren Gothmog Aug 2019 #28
Polls show Warren strengthening against Trump too bluewater Aug 2019 #29
Socialism polls badly and would kill a far left candidate Gothmog Aug 2019 #30
Washington Post-Democrats back off once-fervent embrace of Medicare-for-all Gothmog Aug 2019 #34
Biden Still Holds Solid Lead Nationally Gothmog Aug 2019 #32
Mayo Clinic: Mild cognitive impairment (MCI) bluewater Aug 2019 #9
Compare how trump is treated compared to Biden Gothmog Aug 2019 #18
Cart before the horse? bluewater Aug 2019 #21
Again, Joe is the most electable candidate Gothmog Aug 2019 #24
"in their 70s, women have a miuch higher risk View profile of Alzheimer's" crazytown Sep 2019 #38
I said the same and was attacked for it. cwydro Aug 2019 #11
The top 3 are also the oldest madville Aug 2019 #4
I'm not coy and as a 67 year old, age is an issue for me. elocs Aug 2019 #7
What behavior is NOT "being as sharp as a tack"? bluewater Aug 2019 #10
For a senior citizen, not being as sharp as a tack elocs Aug 2019 #12
Precisely how many gaffes in this campaign season as compared to the same measure of all other candi LanternWaste Aug 2019 #13
Do you really think that this would be an issue in the general election vs. trump? Gothmog Aug 2019 #16
Biden has to actually win the nomination first. bluewater Aug 2019 #20
But trying to disqualify the most electable candidate due to this bogus issue is not smart Gothmog Aug 2019 #25
K&R nt NYMinute Aug 2019 #8
OP on Biden's gaffes: "They see them as a sign of Biden's advancing age." bluewater Aug 2019 #14
These so-called gaffes have nothing to do with age Gothmog Aug 2019 #15
It's from your OP that mentions age as a factor. bluewater Aug 2019 #19
Agree Sugarcoated Aug 2019 #27
Opinion: There are more important things to worry about than Biden's gaffes Gothmog Aug 2019 #31
Concerns about Biden's age and mental fitness are likely overblown Gothmog Aug 2019 #33
"Voters just don't care... they think that he's an honorable man..." Gothmog Sep 2019 #35
These alleged gaffes are eye-rolling examples of the absurdity of the press or the woke left Gothmog Sep 2019 #36
Flippity floppity. NurseJackie Sep 2019 #37
The race will become more stressful as the primaries approach and start, elocs Sep 2019 #39
These gaffes are not due to age Gothmog Sep 2019 #40
People who are senior citizens like myself know elocs Sep 2019 #41
Biden was making the same gaffes thirty years ago Gothmog Sep 2019 #42
Your constant harping about how it is "sad" doesn't make it so. elocs Sep 2019 #43
We strongly disagree on this Gothmog Sep 2019 #44
Joe Biden's childhood struggle with a stutter: How he overcame it and how it shaped him Gothmog Sep 2019 #46
I remember Joe jogging at the Iowa July 4th event Gothmog Sep 2019 #47
In Fairness, Biden Has Always Been a Gaffe Riot - Just Look at The Iraq Invasion DrFunkenstein Sep 2019 #45
 

FBaggins

(26,756 posts)
1. I don't think so
Thu Aug 15, 2019, 10:32 AM
Aug 2019

He's been gaffe-prone his entire career. There's no reason to assume that they're age-related.

He age is still a factor... but an independent one.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

highplainsdem

(49,022 posts)
2. They'll be complete fools if they try to make age a factor. They can't go after Biden's age without
Thu Aug 15, 2019, 10:37 AM
Aug 2019

also smearing Warren and Sanders with this ageist argument.

That takes out our three strongest candidates, which is absolutely insane.

It also offends their supporters, which is absolutely insane.

Insane if we want to win, that is.

It's the equivalent of kneecapping Tom Brady before the Super Bowl because you think he really should retire and the second string quarterback might do better.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

bluewater

(5,376 posts)
3. Warren is 6 years younger than Biden, 7 years younger than Sanders
Thu Aug 15, 2019, 10:48 AM
Aug 2019

And, in general, women seem to age better than men and live longer.



When you are in your 70's, 6 or 7 years is a LOT.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

highplainsdem

(49,022 posts)
5. Not true that women age better. Particularly in their 70s, women have a miuch higher risk
Thu Aug 15, 2019, 10:54 AM
Aug 2019

of Alzheimer's than men have. Among the factors I've seen mentioned for that is that men who get past their 60s tend to be in very good health, or they'd have succumbed to heart trouble earlier.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

bluewater

(5,376 posts)
6. Age-related cognitive decline: Women are more resilient than men
Thu Aug 15, 2019, 11:03 AM
Aug 2019

You made a good point about Alzheimer's disease, recent studies are suggesting a sex related link to Alzheimers's disease that impacts SOME women (who carry a particular variant of the APoE gene) more, but failed to recognize that women are more resilient than men to age related cognitive decline in general:

Previous research has shown that aging affects cognitive ability, and that subtle sex differences in cognition exist across the lifespan. A recent observational study by Dr. Anna C. McCarrey and colleagues in NIA’s Intramural Research Program showed that cognitive ability in some, but not all, domains declines at a steeper rate for men than for women.

NIA researchers followed participants in the Baltimore Longitudinal Study of Aging up to nine years on average. Participants ranged in age from 50 to 96, and were free of cognitive impairment throughout the course of the study. Participants periodically took memory and other cognitive tests that assessed mental status, visuospatial ability, verbal learning and memory, perceptuomotor speed and integration, and other cognitive skills.

Initially, men outperformed women on the two tests of visuospatial ability, and women did better than men on several other cognitive tests. Men showed overall steeper rates of cognitive decline in areas of mental status, perceptuomotor speed and integration, and visuospatial ability. None of the measures showed significantly steeper declines for women. This suggests that women have a greater resilience to age-related cognitive decline than do men.

The researchers note that societal changes may contribute to these sex differences as they have resulted in greater improvements in cognitive stimulation, financial prosperity, and health for women. In addition, sex differences in cognitive aging may be affected by differences in brain structure and function, which tend to show more favorable outcomes for women at advanced ages. Further research is needed to link longitudinal brain changes to cognition in older men and women.

Reference: Sex Differences in Cognitive Trajectories in Clinically Normal Older Adults. Anna C. McCarrey, Yang An, Melissa H. Kitner-Triolo, Luigi Ferrucci, and Susan M. Resnick. Psychology and Aging. 2016 Apr 13; 31(2):166-175. doi: 10.1037/pag0000070.

https://www.nia.nih.gov/news/age-related-cognitive-decline-women-are-more-resilient-men


And recent studies counter the Sex-linked APO4E gene variant( which roughly 20% of the population has) argument regarding Alzheimer's:

"Interestingly, a recent analysis of numerous studies across the world did not find that the prevalence of Alzheimer's was significantly higher in women than in men after controlling for sex differences in longevity [6]."

Age is the major risk factor for Alzheimer's disease, and women on average live longer than men. However, longevity alone does not fully explain why two-thirds of Alzheimer's patients are women. Even after taking into account the difference in longevity, some studies have suggested that women are still at a higher risk [2].

Results varied though based on when and where the studies were carried out, and gender differences in educational and occupational opportunities may also have contributed to these mixed results [3]. Less education (e.g., none or primary school only) is associated with increased dementia risk, while higher levels of cognitive activity at mid- or late-life are linked to delayed onset of cognitive impairment [4][5]. Interestingly, a recent analysis of numerous studies across the world did not find that the prevalence of Alzheimer's was significantly higher in women than in men after controlling for sex differences in longevity [6]. Greater educational and occupational attainment for women in the past few decades may be closing the gap in dementia incidence between women and men [7]. But unless sex differences in longevity diminish, women will continue to make up a large proportion of Alzheimer's patients.

https://www.alzdiscovery.org/cognitive-vitality/blog/how-does-alzheimers-affect-women-and-men-differently

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Gothmog

(145,479 posts)
17. Do you really think that trump will be able to use this issue in the real world?
Thu Aug 15, 2019, 01:51 PM
Aug 2019

Maybe you can explain to me why anyone would listen to trump and explain to me what Coyfefe is ?


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

bluewater

(5,376 posts)
22. Biden needs to win the 2020 Nomination first.
Thu Aug 15, 2019, 02:20 PM
Aug 2019

Perhaps it would be best, for now, to focus on that.

if you do not feel that Biden's verbal blunders will effect his chance of winning the nomination, I respect that.

But please respect other people, like me, when they say the verbal blunders will be a factor in the primaries if they keep happening regularly.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Gothmog

(145,479 posts)
23. Joe Biden is the most electable candidate that the Democratic Party has available
Thu Aug 15, 2019, 03:11 PM
Aug 2019

I want to beat trump and Joe is the best bet to do so

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

bluewater

(5,376 posts)
26. Perfectly understandable opinion.
Thu Aug 15, 2019, 03:15 PM
Aug 2019

But to beat Trump, Joe must win the nomination first.

In my opinion, the best way he could do that is to cut way back on the number of verbal blunders, those feed into the "he's too old" press narrative.

Best of luck to you and your candidate! We will all be voting blue, no matter who in 2020.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Gothmog

(145,479 posts)
28. NYT-Many Democrats Worried About Warren
Thu Aug 15, 2019, 07:26 PM
Aug 2019

Time will tell. I am in the camp that is worried about Warren https://politicalwire.com/2019/08/15/many-democrats-worried-about-warren/

New York Times: “Even as she demonstrates why she is a leading candidate for the party’s nomination, Ms. Warren is facing persistent questions and doubts about whether she would be able to defeat President Trump in the general election. The concerns, including from her admirers, reflect the head-versus-heart debate shaping a Democratic contest increasingly being fought over the meaning of electability and how to take on Mr. Trump.”

“Interviews with more than three dozen Democratic voters and activists in Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina this summer, at events for Ms. Warren as well as other 2020 hopefuls, yield a similar array of concerns about her candidacy.”
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

bluewater

(5,376 posts)
29. Polls show Warren strengthening against Trump too
Thu Aug 15, 2019, 07:31 PM
Aug 2019

From todays A Rated Fox News Poll:



So take heart, more than one Democrat can beat Trump head to head. I expect those numbers to get better for all our Democratic candidates over the next several months.

Again, good luck!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Gothmog

(145,479 posts)
30. Socialism polls badly and would kill a far left candidate
Thu Aug 15, 2019, 07:34 PM
Aug 2019



THE MAIN TAKEAWAYS are that socialism, broadly speaking, is unpopular, but Republicans have work to do if they want to tarnish some key Democratic proposals. Once voters hear about the agenda as framed by Republicans, 61% say it is socialist. Calling Democrats’ policies “socialist” causes a 10-point drop in their popularity.

-- FOR EXAMPLE: Take ‘MEDICARE FOR ALL.’ When asked about supporting Medicare for All, and hearing it described as “guaranteed health care coverage regardless of … income, and every American’s health insurance would come from a single government-run plan,” 41% favor it, 55% oppose and 4% are unsure. When Republicans start describing it as causing “doctor shortages, longer wait times for urgent care and delays in access to the latest drugs for cancer and other serious diseases,” the numbers move to 34% favor and 60% oppose.

-- THE ‘GREEN NEW DEAL’ is actually above water when described as a plan that “would work to address climate change and income inequality, and transition the United States from an economy built on fossil fuels to one driven by clean energy.” 48% favor, 46% oppose and 7% are unsure.

IT SINKS when Republicans start describing it as potentially costing “93 trillion dollars” and hiking energy bills by $3,000. It goes then to 32% support and 61% oppose. Polling memo … Poll deck
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Gothmog

(145,479 posts)
34. Washington Post-Democrats back off once-fervent embrace of Medicare-for-all
Tue Aug 20, 2019, 03:16 PM
Aug 2019



But in recent months, amid polling that shows concern among voters about ending private insurance, several of the Democratic hopefuls have shifted their positions or their tone, moderating full-throated endorsement of Medicare-for-all and adopting ideas for allowing private insurance in some form.

“What I think has happened in the Democratic primary is people recognize that some of the concerns about single-payer are not coming from special interests but the public,” said Neera Tanden, a former top aide to Hillary Clinton and now president of the Center for American Progress. (A government-run health system is sometimes called a single-payer system.)....

Now some Democrats warn of the perils for their party in taking a position that, to important groups of voters, could seem just as disruptive as the GOP’s push to kill the ACA.

“There is nothing more personal to people than their health care,” said Kathleen Sebelius, who consulted on Harris’s plan and served as health and human services secretary in the Obama administration. “Anything that calls for the vast majority of Americans to lose what they have — that’s a very dangerous place to start a conversation.”....

Other surveys have found less support. About 8 in 10 Democrats and Democratic-leaning independents in a Pew poll in July said the federal government has a responsibility to ensure health coverage, but less than half said it should be through a single government plan.

And in a July poll of Iowa voters by CBS News/YouGov, two-thirds of Democrats said they preferred a government health program that competed with private insurance, compared with 34 percent who favored one that replaced private insurance entirely.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Gothmog

(145,479 posts)
32. Biden Still Holds Solid Lead Nationally
Thu Aug 15, 2019, 07:38 PM
Aug 2019

This is nice to see https://politicalwire.com/2019/08/15/biden-still-holds-solid-lead-nationally/

A new Fox News Poll finds Joe Biden continues to lead the Democratic presidential race with 31%, followed by Elizabeth Warren at 20%, Bernie Sanders at 10%, and Kamala Harris at 8%.

Everyone of the four frontrunners beats President Trump in general election match ups.

The leaders are followed by Cory Booker, Pete Buttigieg, and Andrew Yang stand at 3% apiece, and Amy Klobuchar and Beto O’Rourke are each at 2%.

I really love any poll that has sanders under 15%
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

bluewater

(5,376 posts)
9. Mayo Clinic: Mild cognitive impairment (MCI)
Thu Aug 15, 2019, 12:04 PM
Aug 2019

Overview

Mild cognitive impairment (MCI) is the stage between the expected cognitive decline of normal aging and the more serious decline of dementia. It can involve problems with memory, language, thinking and judgment that are greater than normal age-related changes.

If you have mild cognitive impairment, you may be aware that your memory or mental function has "slipped." Your family and close friends also may notice a change. But these changes aren't severe enough to significantly interfere with your daily life and usual activities.

Mild cognitive impairment may increase your risk of later developing dementia caused by Alzheimer's disease or other neurological conditions. But some people with mild cognitive impairment never get worse, and a few eventually get better.

Symptoms

Your brain, like the rest of your body, changes as you grow older. Many people notice gradually increasing forgetfulness as they age. It may take longer to think of a word or to recall a person's name.

But consistent or increasing concern about your mental performance may suggest mild cognitive impairment (MCI). Cognitive issues may go beyond what's expected and indicate possible MCI if you experience any or all of the following:

You forget things more often.
You forget important events such as appointments or social engagements.
You lose your train of thought or the thread of conversations, books or movies.
You feel increasingly overwhelmed by making decisions, planning steps to accomplish a task or understanding instructions.
You start to have trouble finding your way around familiar environments.
You become more impulsive or show increasingly poor judgment.
Your family and friends notice any of these changes.


https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/mild-cognitive-impairment/symptoms-causes/syc-20354578

And of course we must consider the INDIVIDUAL when it comes to aging and its effects.

Do you think ANY of the candidates exhibit these signs of mild cognitive impairment?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Gothmog

(145,479 posts)
18. Compare how trump is treated compared to Biden
Thu Aug 15, 2019, 01:53 PM
Aug 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

bluewater

(5,376 posts)
21. Cart before the horse?
Thu Aug 15, 2019, 02:05 PM
Aug 2019

Biden needs to win the nomination FIRST against fellow Democrats.

Doesn't he?

If he continues to make verbal blunders his chances of winning the nomination will be effected.

Saying WHATABOUT TRUMP in itself will not convince Democrats that Biden should be our nominee in 2020.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Gothmog

(145,479 posts)
24. Again, Joe is the most electable candidate
Thu Aug 15, 2019, 03:12 PM
Aug 2019

Using this amusing but bogus gaffe issue will not change that

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

crazytown

(7,277 posts)
38. "in their 70s, women have a miuch higher risk View profile of Alzheimer's"
Wed Sep 11, 2019, 08:34 PM
Sep 2019

It's about equal

Incidence of dementia: does gender make a difference?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11445258

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

cwydro

(51,308 posts)
11. I said the same and was attacked for it.
Thu Aug 15, 2019, 12:13 PM
Aug 2019

Women do live longer, but not according to some here lol.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

madville

(7,412 posts)
4. The top 3 are also the oldest
Thu Aug 15, 2019, 10:51 AM
Aug 2019

Not enough really care enough about age to make it an issue, just the single digit dwellers trying to stand out maybe.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

elocs

(22,596 posts)
7. I'm not coy and as a 67 year old, age is an issue for me.
Thu Aug 15, 2019, 11:07 AM
Aug 2019

It is not a deal breaker, but it is an issue and not just concerning Biden.

Now if Biden were to demonstrate he could gain control of his gaffes and memory glitches (yes, that happens when you get old) and appear presidential like the speech he gave the other week, I'm sure myself and others would feel much better about it.

But rather than making all the anecdotal comments on how our grandmother was as sharp as a tack at age 97 why not be honest about how old age can impact a person?
Being president is a hard and stressful job even for a comparatively young person. Just look how much Obama outwardly aged in his 8 years in office and he was a relatively young man.
What will that do to a much older president
I expect any Democratic president to have a competent cabinet and staff regardless of their age, but I'm voting for the person in the primary and not their potential staff.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

bluewater

(5,376 posts)
10. What behavior is NOT "being as sharp as a tack"?
Thu Aug 15, 2019, 12:08 PM
Aug 2019

That's the real question.

Is Biden's continued string of gaffes and verbal blunders "being as sharp as a tack"?

Honestly, if it continues at the rate so far, people will start to think that Joe is not "as sharp as a tack".

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

elocs

(22,596 posts)
12. For a senior citizen, not being as sharp as a tack
Thu Aug 15, 2019, 12:17 PM
Aug 2019

would certainly be memory lapses, not recognizing people and verbal blunders that you did not make when younger.
I'm a senior citizen and to be honest, it's not just the same as when I was younger and that's true of most people.
If Biden's gaffes are just a learned habit then he should be able to unlearn them and if being elected president is not incentive enough to change I don't know what would be.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
13. Precisely how many gaffes in this campaign season as compared to the same measure of all other candi
Thu Aug 15, 2019, 12:22 PM
Aug 2019

"Is Biden's continued string of gaffes and verbal blunders "being as sharp as a tack"?

Without objective numbers relevant to all candidates, the "gaffe" thing is merely a bucket of chum being thrown at the wall in the hope some of it sticks.

So then allow the data. Allow us the contrasts and comparisons predicated on objective numbers of gaffes/misstatements per candidate in the Primary campaign season and cite the peer-reviewed sources the data is pulled from.

Or else... keep throwing. It's a big wall, I imagine some of it may actually hit.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Gothmog

(145,479 posts)
16. Do you really think that this would be an issue in the general election vs. trump?
Thu Aug 15, 2019, 01:46 PM
Aug 2019

Biden's so-called gaffes will not be an issue in the general election https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/meet-the-press/democrats-battle-each-other-trump-s-greatest-ally-time-n1042191#anchor-Whatabouthisgaffes

But if Biden’s gaffes were substantial news, why wasn’t there the same level of discussion on what President Trump said yesterday in Pennsylvania?

“That’s a lot of people back there for a — like an 11 o’clock speech. That’s a lot of people. (Laughter.) That’s a lot.” (In fact, the speech was after 2:00 pm ET.)

“This Shell petrochemical plant in Beaver County, Pennsylvania — I did very well here. We did very well. How many points did we win by? Does anybody know? I'll tell you. Isn't it, I think, 28 points?
That's a lot.” (Trump won Beaver County by 19 points in 2016.)

“I got sued on a thing called ‘emoluments.’ Emoluments. You ever hear the word? Nobody ever heard of it before. They went back. Now, nobody looks at Obama getting $60 million for a book.” (Obama signed his book deal in 2017, after leaving office.)

Trump’s two and a half years in office definitely have changed the political and media world.

Shouldn’t they also change how we cover gaffes and misstatements?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

bluewater

(5,376 posts)
20. Biden has to actually win the nomination first.
Thu Aug 15, 2019, 01:59 PM
Aug 2019

Doesn't he?

Will Biden's verbal blunders effect his chances of winning the nomination? Probably. How much depends on how often the blunders occur and their severity,


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Gothmog

(145,479 posts)
25. But trying to disqualify the most electable candidate due to this bogus issue is not smart
Thu Aug 15, 2019, 03:13 PM
Aug 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

bluewater

(5,376 posts)
14. OP on Biden's gaffes: "They see them as a sign of Biden's advancing age."
Thu Aug 15, 2019, 01:28 PM
Aug 2019
"Some influential Democrats are focusing on those gaffes for another reason, though: They see them as a sign of Biden’s advancing age. (Biden is 76 and would be 78 upon assuming the presidency.) Whether those Democrats are genuinely concerned about Biden’s age insofar as it might affect his performance against President Trump, or whether they’re using it as an excuse to promote the candidacies of younger Democrats who they happen to like better anyway, undoubtedly varies from case to case.

A lot of rank-and-file voters do have concerns about Biden’s age. An NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll in February found that 62 percent of voters had reservations about voting for someone aged 75 or older. Other polls have also shown advanced age to be a concern among Democrats, Republicans and independents alike.

But there hasn’t been much discussion of age from the other candidates. Eric Swalwell brought it up explicitly in the first presidential debate, when he urged voters to “pass the torch to a new generation of Americans.” Rather than echo Swalwell’s argument, however, Kamala Harris tried to defuse the situation by suggesting that discussions of age and generational change were tantamount to schoolyard insults. “America does not want to witness a food fight, they want to know how we are going to put food on their table,” she said."
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Gothmog

(145,479 posts)
15. These so-called gaffes have nothing to do with age
Thu Aug 15, 2019, 01:45 PM
Aug 2019



I would challenge anyone to try to explain how the number of gaffes a candidate utters actually tells us something meaningful about his or her prospective presidency. The argument that some number of gaffes suggests cognitive problems that could affect Biden’s performance doesn’t hold water. There are legitimate questions about whether someone Biden’s age — he’ll be 78 at the start of the next presidential term — can handle the rigors of the presidency. But Biden made these kinds of embarrassing statements in his 60s and his 50s, and even his 40s. It’s not a product of age; it’s just who he is.

Besides, we make demands of politicians that no ordinary person would be able to satisfy. I can promise you that if I hired a team of people to follow you around for a week (let alone a year) recording every word that came out of your mouth, there would be some things you’d want to take back.

When a theme like “Joe Biden, gaffe machine” gets locked in, it becomes a frame through which the media view the events of the campaign, leading to profoundly different standards by which each candidate is judged. In its most twisted form, you get something like the 2000 election, in which reporters decided that Al Gore was a liar and George W. Bush was dumb, the consequence of which was that Bush could lie without reporters taking any particular notice even as they pored over every word that left Gore’s mouth to see if under some interpretation it strayed from perfect factual accuracy.

As a similar kind of frame takes hold in this election, other candidates will be allowed to say something unintentionally offensive, garble a URL or otherwise misspeak, with only mild punishment. But when Biden does it, the alarms will go off, and the keyboards will begin clacking.

The cynical expectation is that whether it’s right or not, the gaffe coverage will probably continue: Biden will keep saying cringe-worthy things, and the news media will continue to treat them as newsworthy. And much of Biden’s appeal to Democratic voters is about “electability,” its own bit of campaign pathology that no one should waste time on.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

bluewater

(5,376 posts)
19. It's from your OP that mentions age as a factor.
Thu Aug 15, 2019, 01:55 PM
Aug 2019
"Some influential Democrats are focusing on those gaffes for another reason, though: They see them as a sign of Biden’s advancing age. "

"A lot of rank-and-file voters do have concerns about Biden’s age."


Trying to figure out why this OP was even posted. Honestly, it seems to open the door for people to question how Biden is aging.


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Sugarcoated

(7,728 posts)
27. Agree
Thu Aug 15, 2019, 05:04 PM
Aug 2019

The title of the thread is very misleading

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Gothmog

(145,479 posts)
31. Opinion: There are more important things to worry about than Biden's gaffes
Thu Aug 15, 2019, 07:35 PM
Aug 2019



My response to both was the same, as it was when I was asked about the Biden issue on MSNBC’s “Andrea Mitchell Reports.” There is a racist sitting in the Oval Office implementing a white supremacist policy agenda. So, you focus on Biden’s mouth marbles, and I’ll keep my eyes on the prize. The prize being the eviction of Trump from the White House.

As Waldman also wrote, Trump “is waging a reelection campaign based on racism and fear,” not to mention being “the most prolific liar in American political history (he just passed 12,000 false or misleading claims).” And what makes the focus on Biden’s mouth extra aggravating is how it wipes our memories of the moronic things said by this president, as my follower @absolut_irish was so kind to remind Biden’s critics.


Some of these are funny. Some are worthy of a cocked eyebrow. But they are not nearly as consequential as the racist and white supremacist beliefs parroted by Trump and the right-wing echo chamber that found their way into the manifesto of the suspect in the El Paso mass shooting, who told police his target was "Mexicans.” The atmosphere of menace and danger is now indisputable. Your time would be better spent worrying about the shredding of our values, ideals and the rule of law than the flubs of a particular candidate who would put an end to this shameful chapter.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Gothmog

(145,479 posts)
33. Concerns about Biden's age and mental fitness are likely overblown
Tue Aug 20, 2019, 03:05 PM
Aug 2019


But concerns about Biden’s age and mental fitness are likely overblown, according to experts on aging and the brain, as well as actuarial tables used by the insurance industry to estimate the health and longevity of customers.....

“He is every bit as sharp as he was 31 years ago. I haven’t seen any change,” Kassell said. “I can tell you with absolute certainty that he had no brain damage, either from the hemorrhage or from the operations that he had. There was no damage whatsoever.”...

“When you hear somebody on TV and they make a mistake during a speech or a debate, you’ve got to cut them some slack,” Olshansky said. “If you’ve ever given a speech, it’s not easy standing in front of a crowd of people — especially standing in front of television cameras with millions of people watching — and avoiding verbal mistakes.”

Biden’s physician, Dr. Kevin O'Connor, said in a statement provided by the campaign that “Vice President Biden is in excellent physical condition. He is more than capable of handling the rigors of the campaign and the office for which he is running.”

Kassell, who performed brain surgery on Biden, went a step further: “I am going to vote for the candidate who I am absolutely certain has a brain that is functioning. And that narrows it down exactly to one.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Gothmog

(145,479 posts)
35. "Voters just don't care... they think that he's an honorable man..."
Fri Sep 6, 2019, 06:22 PM
Sep 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Gothmog

(145,479 posts)
36. These alleged gaffes are eye-rolling examples of the absurdity of the press or the woke left
Wed Sep 11, 2019, 08:30 PM
Sep 2019



To many Biden supporters, who polls consistently show are older, more working class, and more culturally conservative, these alleged gaffes are eye-rolling examples of the absurdity of the press or the woke left. They think the young activist in eastern Iowa should toughen up, that the throwaway line to the 13-year-old is endearing, and that Biden’s lack of precision when he speaks, about scooters or so many other things, is a sign of his authenticity. And they grouse that Biden is held to a standard President Donald Trump is not.

How Democrats see such episodes is at the heart of the Democratic primary. One side views these sorts of typical Biden campaign-trail moments as evidence of a politician well past his prime — casually sexist in a way that might have gone unremarked in, say, 1973 when he first joined the Senate. His supporters see them as good examples of why he’s the lovable Democrat best-suited to beat Trump. What is clear is that the critics, who are louder and more visible online and on cable TV, have had absolutely no impact on changing Biden’s status as the steady front-runner in the race.

This woke-working class divide is at the heart of the most salient fact about the Democratic primaries: Nothing has damaged Biden. Biden entered the race with about 30 percent support nationally and he has that same 30 percent today.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
37. Flippity floppity.
Wed Sep 11, 2019, 08:32 PM
Sep 2019

Some of the ones who now try to smear Biden because of his age are also the ones who were most upset when their particular favorite candidate was also called-out on his (or her) age. Interesting, no?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

elocs

(22,596 posts)
39. The race will become more stressful as the primaries approach and start,
Thu Sep 12, 2019, 01:50 PM
Sep 2019

so if Biden's gaffes are caused by age, they will increase.
If not, then they are just part of who he is.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Gothmog

(145,479 posts)
40. These gaffes are not due to age
Thu Sep 12, 2019, 03:14 PM
Sep 2019

Attacking Joe Biden's age is sad

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

elocs

(22,596 posts)
41. People who are senior citizens like myself know
Thu Sep 12, 2019, 04:24 PM
Sep 2019

that you don't get stronger, faster, smarter, and with a better memory when you get older. It's not an unreasonable concern about Biden's gaffes when he seems to be able to change his behavior when it comes to unwanted touching but not misspeaking.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Gothmog

(145,479 posts)
42. Biden was making the same gaffes thirty years ago
Thu Sep 12, 2019, 04:40 PM
Sep 2019

Attacking Senator Biden is really sad
Biden spent 90+ minutes with a group of African American reporters and had no issues


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

elocs

(22,596 posts)
43. Your constant harping about how it is "sad" doesn't make it so.
Thu Sep 12, 2019, 04:44 PM
Sep 2019

But you seem very, very defensive about it when there are questions about Biden's age.
Are we supposed to be comforted by claiming he has been gaffe prone for decades and apparently is helpless to do anything about it?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Gothmog

(145,479 posts)
44. We strongly disagree on this
Thu Sep 12, 2019, 05:22 PM
Sep 2019

BTW, I will be having lunch with him tomorrow. I will check for signs of advance age

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Gothmog

(145,479 posts)
46. Joe Biden's childhood struggle with a stutter: How he overcame it and how it shaped him
Mon Sep 16, 2019, 08:20 PM
Sep 2019

Joe is very well equipped to take on trump the bully



Valerie Biden Owens, the former vice president’s younger sister, says that one lasting impact of his childhood stutter is that it has given him more empathy and compassion for others’ trials, and it uniquely equips him to handle Trump’s taunts.

“Trump is a bully, and Joe has been standing up to bullies his entire life,” Owens said in an interview. “Joe’s stuttering, I think, is one of the principal reasons — a major, major, major reason — that he is the good and compassionate and kind man that he is.”

About 3 million Americans suffer from the speech impediment of stuttering, marked by involuntary repetition of sounds, syllables or words. According to the National Institute on Deafness and other Communication Disorders, most children outgrow their stutter, but for 25% of them, stuttering is a lifelong challenge.

Biden has overcome the serious stutter of his youth, but remnants of it resurface on occasions such as when he is very tired, he said in a 2016 speech. Experts on stuttering who follow him closely say they have noticed it on several occasions during the campaign, such as an interview on “The View” when he addressed complaints about his tendency to touch and hug women while campaigning, and an April speech in Pittsburgh launching his campaign, when he struggled with words.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Gothmog

(145,479 posts)
47. I remember Joe jogging at the Iowa July 4th event
Mon Sep 16, 2019, 08:23 PM
Sep 2019

Biden is in great physical shape.


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

DrFunkenstein

(8,745 posts)
45. In Fairness, Biden Has Always Been a Gaffe Riot - Just Look at The Iraq Invasion
Thu Sep 12, 2019, 05:50 PM
Sep 2019

July 31, 2002, Biden stated, “One thing is clear: These weapons must be dislodged from Saddam, or Saddam must be dislodged from power. If we wait for the danger from Saddam to become clear, it could be too late.”

---

In 2007: "Everyone in the world thought he had them. The weapons inspectors said he had them."

----

Scott Ritter, the former chief U.N. weapons inspector, just prior to the hearings: “For Senator Biden’s Iraq hearings to be anything more than a political sham used to invoke a modern-day Gulf of Tonkin resolution-equivalent for Iraq, his committee will need to ask hard questions—and demand hard facts—concerning the real nature of the weapons threat posed by Iraq.”

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
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