Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumSymone Sanders says climate debate would be "dangerous territory"
Symone Sanders, a senior adviser of presidential candidate Joe Biden, was among those who urged the DNC on Thursday to vote down a climate debate, saying it would be dangerous territory in the middle of a Democratic primary process.
That contrasts with what Biden had earlier said during a campaign stop in Iowa this summer. The former vice president had endorsed having a climate debate, telling Greenpeace, Im all in.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/dnc-rejects-climate-debate_n_5d5cb8f0e4b05f62fbd7067d
Link to tweet
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
i cant even.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
TexasTowelie
(112,370 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
melman
(7,681 posts)Beto O'Rourke seems to take this issue rather seriously.
Link to tweet
But I guess if it makes you sleepy it makes you sleepy..
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Response to melman (Reply #4)
TexasTowelie This message was self-deleted by its author.
Mike 03
(16,616 posts)We can't put this discussion off much longer.
She's on Twitter. I let her know what I think about her climate avoidance strategy.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
...and a planet
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Auggie
(31,184 posts)Use job growth to win the primary and the White House. Then focus on climate.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DemocracyMouse
(2,275 posts)Glad the GND is back un play!
Right? Right?
Or are we back in the whimpy zone where Dems don't tell it like it is, but cater to pollsters?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
DemocracyMouse
(2,275 posts)(Especially when the polling itself is honest and direct, just as the DNC would be if it wasn't clogged with 80s consciousness)
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
lapucelle
(18,305 posts)who tell readers that a scheduled DNC RBC committee meeting was a panel, implies that Symone Sanders was there in her capacity as Bidens campaign manager or his representative (she was there as a committee member), and neglects to mention that the business of the meeting was a discussion and vote on a proposal to have a scheduled debate devoted to the single topic or to keep the televised candidate forums that were already planned and incorporated into the schedule.
Symone argued and voted to keep the forums. That measure won 17-3.
Those are the facts. You will not find them in the HuffPo link.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BeyondGeography
(39,377 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Mike 03
(16,616 posts)You know, the Amazon rainforests are in flames, the Arctic and Greenland are hemorrhaging water... I don't want to hear Joe Biden say he's afraid to talk about Climate Change. I'm scared to death about this issue. I hope we don't end up with a nominee who is going to do the "bare minimum" on climate. That's all.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Celerity
(43,485 posts)Was really happy when Biden said he was all in. Looks like short-sighted, ill-informed risk aversion by the DNC and Joe's advisors has won again.
Disappointed to say the least. The DNC and Symone Sanders' framing of this issue is so damaging, as it gives the denialists another arrow for their quiver of wilful ignorance.
My age cohort (I am 23, on the Millennial/Gen Z borderline) and younger (in reality all age groups who live long enough will feel the sting to some degree and are already) are the ones who are really going to be hurt the most by global climate change, and this just seems like a older generational blow off TBH.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,643 posts)In any case, do you think it would help if we lose the election over an issue we can do nothing about unless we win?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Celerity
(43,485 posts)If the mere subject is so bloody poisonous to the elections, why do all the candidates even put out plans. Biden trumpeted his far and wide, but now the foot-draggers at the DNC and fear-mongering Biden staffers (Dangerous Territory Symone) have scuppered Joe's previously stated great 'I'm all in!'
It IS shit framing to call even discussing it in a debate forum 'dangerous territory'. Leave it to an ex-Bernie sidekick to come up with that bollocks. SMDH
Finally, on a totally different note (and if you simply did not want to answer this from yesterday, that is all good)
You never responded to my Biden potential VP answer to you (on the 'maybe not a female VP' thing, due to sexism and misogynists)
I was mostly agreeing with you and made a log list of possibles
here
https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287248154#post28
respond if you want, as I value your opinion
cheers
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,643 posts)I missed the VP post...will look for it. I don't see the post you refer to could you send me a link when you get chance? I would like to read it ...thanks in advance.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Celerity
(43,485 posts)It is post 28
in this OP
https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287248154
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
theaocp
(4,244 posts)Pathetic. There is no Planet B, people.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Andy823
(11,495 posts)I would think NOT hearing from all of our candidates on this issue would be DANGEROUS. Is she afraid that Joe can't handle this issue?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,643 posts)"A singular climate debate only serves its purpose if every faction within the Democratic Party agrees that climate change uniquely merits a dedicated debate. But progressive activists are unlikely to accept this. The nature of the party is that it is divided into activist nodes organized around singular issues or groups. What happens when activists request a debate on racism? Inequality? Health care? Gun violence? Voting rights? Abortion rights? Immigration?
Once Democrats have broken the seal, the pressure to expand the number of single-issue debates would be intense and continuous. Saying no to any particular cause after having already agreed to elevating another cause would be untenable. Can you really imagine the party standing behind the position that racism is not important enough to merit its own debate, but climate change is? I cannot. The endpoint would be a proliferation of single-issue debates that negates the entire point of elevating climate change to begin with."
http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/07/climate-debate-democrats-2020-terrible-idea.html
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Andy823
(11,495 posts)Since I, and millions of others, believe climate change is serious, and I agreed with Governor Inslee on his stand for having the debates, I think that the majority of candidates would have been fine with having one, as most of them said earlier about such a debate, and I really doubt it would have been "dangerous", except to those who may not have wanted to discuss the issue for whatever reason they may have had.
Climate change will destroy the world if we don't do something about it. Yes there are other issues, but if without fixing the problem with climate change, nothing else is going to matter much. You can have your own opinion, but this is mine.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,643 posts)at this moment. Every single activist group will demand their debate and who can say no to those worthy causes? It would create havoc and hard feelings. It is a feel good issue but way to complicated to put in a debate where candidates will face gotcha questions.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Andy823
(11,495 posts)discuss the issues they should not be running. If Democrats get behind the nominee, we won't lose. We have some great candidates that can win, not just one, and I want to know ahead of time that they can take on trump before I vote for them. I think that the women running are doing a great job, better than the men actually.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
demmiblue
(36,875 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,643 posts)Climate Change...
http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/07/climate-debate-democrats-2020-terrible-idea.html
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
peggysue2
(10,839 posts)would be better framed in a town hall format where candidates could drill down on the specifics, approaches, perspectives, rather than argue or 'debate' different aspects of individual candidates' climate change programs. Despite the GOP's willful blindness, there's no debate that climate change exists and will have long-lasting, devastating effects. But beyond scientific literature and nonfiction books, we haven't had a national public forum on the subject since Al Gore's push--where we are now, how bad it will become, the things we can do to mitigate the damage and social upheaval that's coming and how to fund the massive changes required to survive the coming decades. Our water and food supplies will be badly compromised. Immigration will become a fact of life as people flee drought, famine and storm-ravaged areas/countries. Wars over resources are likely to break out. The predictions are grim.
If I understood Sanders correctly, this isn't a subject to turn into a network-driven gladiatorial contest: who said the right thing vs who didn't; who had the best argument and/or rebuttal, etc., etc., etc. The subject is too damn important to turn it into a political sporting event, later scored by talking heads and pundits. Who won, who lost?
Donald Trump is an existential threat to the United States. But Climate Change? We're talking an existential threat to the entire world. I think the discussion deserves, even demands the best format, a well-thought out, serious presentation by people from a lot of disciplines and perspectives. Might not be the 'Good TV' the networks so love. But then if we don't get a handle on this issue, the networks will become extinct. Along with the rest of us.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
floppyboo
(2,461 posts)you wrote: this isn't a subject to turn into a network-driven gladiatorial contest: who said the right thing vs who didn't; who had the best argument and/or rebuttal, etc., etc., etc. The subject is too damn important to turn it into a political sporting event, later scored by talking heads and pundits. Who won, who lost?
It is too damn important, and it has received almost zero coverage - never mind if its a primary or not. And never mind that even the weather reports, let alone the news, don't carry it.
This needs to be HUGE with no skirting around and constant and unrelenting.
The circus has begun, and its on fire as a spectacle. Time to talk about the real fires.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
peggysue2
(10,839 posts)I don't see a 3-5 minute ping-pong debate commentary per candidate accomplishing anything close to a real discussion, let alone lending the gravity that the subject deserves. This shouldn't be a 'gotcha' politics moment; it's simply too important.
I expect each and every candidate to speak to the issue through their speeches, rallies, ads in order to generate the energy and resources and commitment that will be necessary to begin to tackle the crisis. Personally, I thought Governor Inslee had the best grasp of what we're facing, in addition to programs & policy to mitigate the severe consequences we face from doing close to squat across the planet. I genuinely hope that whoever gets the nomination will tap the man as a serious resource. Because the United States should be leading on this, twisting arms where need be to get everyone on board. Instead, we're wasting precious time with the maniac squatting in the WH and the GOP playing dumb and dumber.
But turning this issue into a horserace subject? No thank you.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
brush
(53,834 posts)with each other and try to get in the best sound bite. 30 seconds for each candidate is ridiculous for such a serious subject.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
lapucelle
(18,305 posts)Yesterdays DNC RBC committee meeting was a discussion on whether to scrap the forums and have a single debate or to keep the forums. There was also a vote on the measure.
Symone Sanders was at the meeting because she is a committee member. She argued and voted for keeping the forums.
The committee voted to keep the forums 17-3..
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
brush
(53,834 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
lapucelle
(18,305 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
emmaverybo
(8,144 posts)foreign policy ( a first nuclear conflict anywhere on the earth will cause climate catastrophe) need to be discussed, not competed over in the usual horse race.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
still_one
(92,372 posts)the subject adequately
https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5d5cb8f0e4b05f62fbd7067d
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BeckyDem
(8,361 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
jalan48
(13,881 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
PDittie
(8,322 posts)to read complaints about Nina Turner when this is the advice coming from Biden's senior adviser.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,643 posts)fuck off...I think Biden's adviser would be correct anyway, but apparently she is concerned about single issue debates...imagine if we had one on boarder control...or reparations. This could cause incalculable damage for the nominee in a general...all about winning. A primary is not the time or place for grand ideas...that happens if you win by a large majority. A primary is merely a means to get the best candidate for the general...one who can win and hopefully can help with down ballot races. The idea that the primary is a be all end all will cause losses for our party.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
highplainsdem
(49,028 posts)more single issue debates, if the DNC agreed to one.
Here's my thread about this, which shows the context:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287250472
Your OP was wrong. She was not talking about the climate debate per se.
Too many news stories are also getting this wrong, leaving out the context.
Which is why it's useful to look for more info, to get the context, if you want the truth.
But it's tempting for people who want to attack Biden to take her remarks out of context.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
melman
(7,681 posts)The point is she was arguing against having the climate debate.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
highplainsdem
(49,028 posts)issue debates, and that was the reason others were also opposed to making this exception.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
melman
(7,681 posts)There's video of her comments. She was making an argument against the climate debate. That is the point.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
highplainsdem
(49,028 posts)And keep trying to pretend that the majority there didn't agree with her about it being dangerous to change the rules on this when there would inevitably be demands for lots of other single-issue debates.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
melman
(7,681 posts)The argument was deployed in order to squash the climate debate. That is the point. No amount of parsing can change that.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,643 posts)in the Democratic Party that their issue is less important? And what does a climate debate accomplish other than to give the GOP new talking points?
http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/07/climate-debate-democrats-2020-terrible-idea.html
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
melman
(7,681 posts)I notice you've posted that article several times now so I thought I'd ask.
btw, if you take a look you'll see he got absolutely roasted in the comments there. And with good reason.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
highplainsdem
(49,028 posts)Tom Perez and the majority of DNC leadership have been opposed to the climate debate all along, because of what a rules change would lead to.
Biden himself was okay with the debate. The DNC's opposition was not about him.
Yes, a lot of people would like a climate debate.
And a lot of people would like a single-issue debate on gun control. And voting rights. And abortion rights. And healthcare. And foreign policy. Ad almost infinitum.
No one can explain how the DNC could credibly allow one single-issue debate and not okay every other single-issue debate some candidate or activist group demands.
There are a LOT of important issues to talk about, and more debates to come.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,643 posts)had made this argument, they would all being in agreement right now...just another attempt to take down Biden as he is winning this primary and their chosen candidate is not. .
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,643 posts)when there is nothing that can be done now or in the future unless we win the presidency and the Senate...also we must hold the house. Climate can be addressed in any debate without all the furor that would be created as activist groups demanded that their cause be elevated to a single issue debate.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
melman
(7,681 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,643 posts)conserve...oh I could think of dozens of commercials that would work for them. And there really is an issue that since we are not the biggest polluters...how would we get other countries to join us...oh lots and lots of attacks that could work...why do it now when we have no hope of getting anything through...The time for this is after we win and hopefully get the Senate (or it won't happen). we can begin and it will take baby steps and a jobs program to get folks on board...make it a new manufacturing plan...green energy...many jobs...the blue wall states would be on board. How about coal miners getting green jobs...we can make this work but not at this moment when we have no real power.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
melman
(7,681 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Eric J in MN
(35,619 posts)...and they aren't. (Symone Sanders is the staffer)
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
betsuni
(25,598 posts)Why would the DNC do what one person says?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BannonsLiver
(16,439 posts)Im not the least bit surprised by the disingenuous framing. True to form.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,643 posts)about at the moment and if we don't win in 2020, nothing will done then...it is vital that we win. Thus no reason to bring this up at this moment...the idea that suddenly all will be on board because of a debate is politically naive.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Eliot Rosewater
(31,117 posts)the issue of what color we will paint the kitchen if we can rebuild and I want it resolved BEFORE we put the fire out!
Having said that, I disagree with anyone who says we cant have that discussion now and if we do it in the frame of GREEN JOBS even better.
This is a tough one, the argument could be made that this is the ONE thing more important than removing a person who will be killing us all soon or deporting us all soon.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,643 posts)them their issue is less important? One subject debates are a bad idea. Climate should be and can be addressed within the debates as it stands now along with other issues that some view as just as vital.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Eliot Rosewater
(31,117 posts)wont work.
HOWEVER, it might work.
Do we have a history of one subject or two subject debates?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,643 posts)cause a great deal of trouble and could impact the general. We can do nothing on climate change unless we get elected in 2020. Thus no point at this moment. We won the midterms on health care mostly... the ACA and also how evil Trump is...add jobs and a weakening economy...and you have your issues...along with plant closings and Trump's attacks on Unions...these are issue that will work in states that matter in the electoral college. The ACA can't get fixed unless we win the presidency and the senate so it is a big issue.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Eliot Rosewater
(31,117 posts)which would make it the MOST watched debate.
Why arent people in the green job world and environmentalists showing the politicians how to do this?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,643 posts)used against them later in a general. We can however, have questions during normal debates but I hope our candidates are careful...and it would be a great idea if we campaign on this issue of green jobs frame it during the campaign...create a manufacturing plan for the hard hit rust belt and coal country...these are areas where Trump lied to gain support and who now realize they were had...real opportunity to rebuild the blue wall using green energy and climate change manufacturing plans...our candidates and eventual nominees can develop workable solutions to create green jobs where they are needed...just not a really good idea in a two hour debate where there will be gotcha questions from the moderaters and a candidate could give an answer that would be used against him/her in a general.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Should we all pretend that climate change is not happening? Will it then go away?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
quickesst
(6,280 posts).... The perfect response to every anti-Biden thread started so far.
. I think a lot of people who don't like Joe Biden and troll 24/7 for what I consider trivialities like this are doing it more to make themselves feel better, and to convince themselves of its importance rather than anyone else.
Thank you. I'll be here all primary.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
melman
(7,681 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
quickesst
(6,280 posts)..... I had included one last short paragraph to my post, thought better of it because I like to give members of Democratic Underground the benefit of the doubt, and deleted it. Here it is word for word.
Please don't come back with something stupid like, "Climate change isn't important?"
I am literally laughing my ass off because you know, as well as I do, that the importance of climate change isn't the issue here. What's at issue here is a campaign strategy you don't like so you are trying to build another mountain out of another molehill.
..... And here is where I direct you back to my previous post, but with the above deleted paragraph now included, which pretty much proves my point.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
melman
(7,681 posts)Except it actually is the issue.
Link to tweet
As for the rest of that. Insult me all you want. call me a troll. I do not care.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
quickesst
(6,280 posts)It is a disagreement on strategy. Tell me, out of all the Democrats in Congress, out of all the Democrats in the Senate, out of all the Democrats running for president, can you name one who is not concerned about climate change? Do you believe Joe Biden is not concerned with climate change? Do you believe that climate change is not a concern for Symone Sanders? Like I said, it's about a strategy you do not agree with, and took the opportunity to try and make a mountain out of a molehill.
"As for the rest of that. Insult me all you want. call me a troll. I do not care."
Now this is making a tiny tiny Mountain out of a tiny tiny molehill. You're getting better.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
melman
(7,681 posts)Yes you did.
Did you not make it out like it was a really low blow just reading your post the way it was written? Yes. Yes you did.
This thread is about the climate debate. You said it was a triviality and then acted outraged when asked if you really think it's trivial. I've been around here long enough to know all the techniques. and that is a common one.
person one - says a thing
person two - do you really think.. (that thing)
person one - how dare you say I said (the thing they said)
--
and then there's this -- Another common technique.
"I think a lot of people who don't like Joe Biden and troll 24/7 for what I consider trivialities like this are doing it more to make themselves feel better, and to convince themselves of its importance rather than anyone else. "
You may think the insult is cleverly hidden but it's not. Who "trolls 24/7" but a troll? That is calling me a troll.
-
As for the rest of that straw man nonsense I am not even going to address it.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
quickesst
(6,280 posts)No. I did not call you a troll. You placed yourself in that role by taking personal offense at a statement that was generic, and which was directed at A LOT of people who don't like Joe Biden, not ALL people who don't like Joe Biden. If you place yourself into the role of victim, it is not my responsibility to save you from yourself.
Nowhere in my post did I state that climate change was a triviality. The triviality is the way you twisted it to conform to your narrative.
The funniest thing in your post was the outrage thing you accuse me of. That got a double out of me, and I glaringly notice that you did not answer my question concerning the Democrats I mentioned and their stance as far as climate change is concerned.
One more thing. One does not need a "technique" where logic and common sense are concerned. It takes nothing more then a grasp of the English language.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
George II
(67,782 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Eliot Rosewater
(31,117 posts)"vote blue no matter who"
but they wont
I guess I should stop holding my breath, they aint NEVER saying it
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
melman
(7,681 posts)did you see the post in your thread where someone explicitly said they would not vote for the Democratic nominee if it was someone they deem unacceptable?
Just wondering because it seems like just the kind of thing you were concerned with in the OP
Yet you did not comment on it. Seemed kind of odd.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
melman
(7,681 posts)and I made no request of any kind.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
George II
(67,782 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Really.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Vegas Roller
(704 posts)stop the nefarious spinning
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
melman
(7,681 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Aaron Pereira
(383 posts)No, I think now is a great time to have this conversation.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Autumn
(45,120 posts)Maybe we ought to fucking talk about it now.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided