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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!
 

Tom Rinaldo

(22,913 posts)
Sat Mar 16, 2019, 03:21 PM Mar 2019

A simple observation about some who support Sanders.

Bernie Sanders is commonly identified as the furthest left of the major possible Democratic candidates for President. That has various policy implications for sure, but it also has political implications as to who might be drawn toward supporting him and why. As with all candidates, Sanders has supporters who align themselves closely with the positions he takes and the manner in which he seeks to advance them. But as the candidate viewed as occupying the edge of one side of the viable political spectrum, Sanders also draws support from some who may not so much feel closely aligned with Sanders specifically as much as they view him as the closest thing to a true "leftist" running, as they define that term.

Sanders by default inherits the support of most of those to the left of him who for whatever reason want to influence who wins the Democratic nomination. And yes that extends all the way out to some who many may be tempted to define as "the fringe". As a life long social justice and anti-war activist, I know that type well. To be frank they often have been the bane of many of my organizing efforts. As John Lennon once put it;

"But if you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao
you ain't gonna make it with anyone anyhow."

Many many fine people are drawn to grass roots social justice organizing efforts in general. But back in the day I always knew that members of the Revolutionary Communist Party would show up at our rallies also. Which is not necessarily to say that none of them were "fine people" too, but they had their own agenda which was not always on the same page with the goals of our protests. They were there to make their views known loud and clear and they were not much concerned about triggering off a backlash among the public who encountered them. I could fairly have been called a part of "The New Left" back then, but I no more thought that the Weather Underground represented me at the time than I did the KKK.

America has a truncated political spectrum. Virtually all of our elected politicians are more or less centrists by world standards. For one thing essentially every one of them is willing to swear to uphold our Constitution. Personally I am fond of our Constitution in general, I think it is pretty darn good as far as constitutions go but that doesn't make it perfect. There are many other models for how the politics, freedoms and economies of nations can be organized other than the one America functions with. Some are to the right and some are to the left of ours. And some people feel at home operating at the fringes of a society that fails to embrace their world view, while others don't like being relegated to the outskirts. The latter sometimes choose to engage with people closer to the center. Some seem to do so skillfully, and others can come across as obnoxious to non true believers.

Personally my pragmatic politics are best represented by the left flank of Social Democrats. That is the base from which I believe I can still have a hand in directly influencing the direction of our national elections. But I am a life long Collectivist. Frankly, "From each according to their ability, to each according to their need" seems like a good starting point for discussions in my view. So does "Tax the Rich to feed the Poor". I believe in worker self management. I believe in bottom up decision making structures. I believe in a model for society that coexists in places with our mainstream culture but differs substantially in parts from it. But we need to control the Presidency and Congress today in order to avoid disastrous wars and to effectively confront global warming, and so much more. I can't wait for some utopian social order to first emerge, I have to be active in this one.

All my life I have shared protests rallies and marches with those on the left who scorn working with the establishment in one way or another, to any of varying extents. I know those people. Some of them vote, some of them don't. Some of them vote third party when they do, and some are willing to entertain voting for whichever left of center politician is as left as one can get and still have a chance of actually getting elected. It is, as they say, a free country. Bernie Sanders stands near the left pole of accepted American mainstream politics. Knowing that dynamic well, I know enough not to judge Sanders by the worst case examples of those further left than him who refuse in any way to play nice with those they consider centrists.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
7 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Perrenial Voter

(173 posts)
1. A bit off topic, but I've always suspected that the Revolutionary Communist
Sat Mar 16, 2019, 05:57 PM
Mar 2019

Party was some kind of front organization either to divide the left, discredit the Soviet Union among leftist, or simply to spy on leftists organizations. I had contact with them in graduate school in Berkeley, and went to their headquarters in Oakland because they said they had literature from Iranian leftists, which I was researching at the time. None of them knew any Persian, but they did indeed have a rich trove of literature from some of the most obscure groups in Iran, some I knew had only 10 or so members. The only way I even knew about them was from a CIA agent who had been stationed in Tehran to monitor leftists groups there. I was floored by the rich cache of material they had. I might add that the conversations I overheard at their center were extremely sexist and sleazy and not like anything I had heard on the left. Later I learned that in Los Angeles, they had been shown to have been infiltrated by the police intelligence unit. No doubt there were some sincere people in the group, but I strongly suspect it was set up for some purpose that they were not aware of.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Tom Rinaldo

(22,913 posts)
4. I was a staff person for the Abolone Alliance in CA around 1979/1980 or so
Sat Mar 16, 2019, 06:35 PM
Mar 2019

For those unfamiliar with the Abalone Alliance, it was a state wide coalition of grass roots anti nuclear groups. We seemingly had our very own Revolutionary Communist Party liaison person unofficially assigned to his. She was actually rather likeable, but quite dogged none the less. Someone with a harder edge more doctrinaire approach to us would have been laughed at to his/her face, but she remained good natured and so was tolerated. From the RCP perspective she was the ideal "contact person" to assign to our group. It made me wonder how much thought they put into how they went about seeking to make inroads into other organizations (though she made no progress with ours). I've wondered if they still exist. May have to do an internet search on them now...

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

David__77

(23,426 posts)
2. It makes good sense to me for socialists to be Democrats.
Sat Mar 16, 2019, 06:19 PM
Mar 2019

It’s not like it’s a new thing.

Also, sectarianism is hardly limited to the “left.” I think there are plenty of anti-“leftist” factionalists.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Tom Rinaldo

(22,913 posts)
3. Fully agree on both points. n/t
Sat Mar 16, 2019, 06:25 PM
Mar 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

McCamy Taylor

(19,240 posts)
5. "Centrist" and "leftist" are muddled terms in this country.
Sat Mar 16, 2019, 09:50 PM
Mar 2019

Leftist is supposed to be allied with the working class and support universal health care, education, unions, wage equality, a living wage and all the things that help the working class. I.e. most people. But a lot of self styled leftists do not act as if they care about the needs of workers. A lot of them seem to believe in a meritocracy where those who are more skilled, prettier, more intelligent deserve special treatment and more material wealth--and deserve to have their opinions taken more seriously than the guys and gals down at the factory.


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Tom Rinaldo

(22,913 posts)
6. I've noticed that as well, though few would openly state it that way
Sat Mar 16, 2019, 10:14 PM
Mar 2019

All of the things you mentioned above are still part of the stated liberal/left platform, but the center of gravity has shifted more toward protecting (and in some cases still expanding) the social safety net for those who are not well off, rather than fighting head on for the economic advancement of working Americans. It's a subtle but meaningful shift. A continued emphasis on preserving a floor for all to stand on, but less effort aimed at raising the ceiling that most of us continue to labor below. Hence the massive transfer of wealth from working and middle class families to the wealthy that has occurred in recent decades has continued to go on steadily. Defending "access" to health care rather than literally providing it for example, and championing "opportunity" rather than focusing on actual results. Beneath all of it I too see a subtle presumption that those who succeed in America are deserving of any success they attain, while those who are being left behind have their own short comings in large part to blame for not advancing. Yes their most essential needs should be addressed, it is generally agreed to by the left that you describe, but little effort is focused on helping them too thrive.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
7. Although I find them a bit much at times, I admire DU Sanders supporters for their tenacity
Sat Mar 16, 2019, 11:54 PM
Mar 2019

and belief in their choice. They are like boxers that walk into jab after jab, looking to throw that one punch that ends the fight, you have to admire that, even as it is irritating as all heck sometimes.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
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