Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumIn 2016 Bernie was one of only 8 Democratic caucus members failing to join a Democratic filibuster
on gun control legislation.
This was on June 16, after the Presidential race had already been decided. Apparently he was still a little bit busy.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/06/16/why-bernie-sanders-missed-the-senate-democrats-14-hour-gun-filibuster/
Before Sen. Chris Murphy (D-Conn.) headed to the floor yesterday to begin a marathon gun safety speech, his office reached out to members of the 46-member Democratic caucus. By the end of it, early Thursday morning, Murphy announced that the Democrats would get votes on Sen. Dianne Feinstein's legislation to prevent people on the terror watch list from buying guns, and his own legislation to expand background checks. Thirty-eight of his fellow senators joined the filibuster, allowing Murphy to rest, reading comments from the Internet or describing mass shootings in their own states.
Not among them: Sen. Bernie Sanders of Vermont. The runner-up in the Democratic presidential primaries was in Burlington, Vt., ahead of a simulcast speech to supporters today. (He is not expected to concede.) He'd been in Washington the night before the filibuster began, for the Democratic luncheon and a meeting with Hillary Clinton, but he was not able to return to the city.
"It just didn't work yesterday," said Sanders spokesman Michael Briggs. "We're keeping an eye on votes next week."
Sanders, who opposed the Brady Bill that expanded background checks and waiting periods, has since come into sync with the Democratic caucus. "The idea that weapons designed to do one thing kill people by the dozens should be sold and distributed in our country is absurd," he said Tuesday. On Wednesday, he tweeted in support of the filibuster.
SNIP
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
JI7
(89,264 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)No doubt about that.
But I have never voted for a perfect candidate.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
pnwmom
(108,994 posts)And compared to other members of the Democratic caucus, Sanders record on gun control has always been one of the weaker ones.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Eliot Rosewater
(31,121 posts)of a concern about are they who they say they are.
And your choice was a candidate with a proven track record of NOT getting along with people or creating bipartisan partnerships but has a great agenda, or someone who has proven they can get shit done but is willing to go only 75% of the way on said agenda.
Which would you choose?
I would go for the 75%.
The one person I dont include in this is obviously Tulsi..
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)I am my own perfect candidate, but given that my name is far too long for a button or bumper sticker, as well as unpronounceable for most English speakers, I will be forced to choose another imperfect candidate.
One of the issues I had with JPR, and some of the posters there, was the "purity politics" that insist on symbolic protest votes in lieu of voting for the best available candidate.
And in the US system, and most systems, it is vital to work with others even if one's views differ. That is called being a reasonable adult.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Eliot Rosewater
(31,121 posts)dont literally understand what that means OR are so immature and childish they will sentence the human race to extinction because their feelings are hurt.
I wish that was an exaggeration of the situation, it is not.
YOU are someone I respect and admire on this board and have been for sometime now. You seem to be with the progressives (I am not a progressive, I am a liberal) but you also seem very reasonable and willing to do what has to be done.
Now, are most progressives also willing to do what has to be done? I hope so but I dont think it takes that many to fuck us over like before.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)And I also respect your many contributions here, and your clear articulation of the issues.
I am not certain of where the line between progressive and liberal falls. That might be a good subject for a separate post.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Eliot Rosewater
(31,121 posts)Are you a liberal or a progressive?
I am a liberal.
This might be the biggest difference I see - connecting racism/bigotry/misogyny/homophobia/xenophobia with economics/income disparity, etc. They are not the same thing, as a liberal I say we resolve FIRST reparations, racism etc either before the rest or at the same time but NOT as if they are connected.
This thread was suggested by my friend "guillaumeb" who thought it might be an interesting topic.
As a liberal, for instance, I think all of the following should be nationalized:
energy, all of it, petroleum, electric, natural gas, etc...
access to the internet...
health care of course...
education including college (make it hard to get in, give free medical school for instance but the graduate must participate in our single payer system as the payback)
even cell service should have a national , minimum service option that has little cost as surviving in this world without it is not possible...
OK, that should be enough to get us started.
Oh, yes, as a liberal I would:
Try and get a SC decision on guns that is constitutional, Heller is not...obviously
If necessary increase the size of the court, as we are out of time and options...
Also as a liberal I would make WATER like air, everybody gets it, you dont pay for it, and if someone tries to deprive you of it you arrest them.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Even socialistic.
Guill
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Eliot Rosewater
(31,121 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Those could lead to some intense vomiting.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
msongs
(67,441 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
JI7
(89,264 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
George II
(67,782 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
aikoaiko
(34,183 posts)Its too bad Joe Biden couldn't work his compromise magic on those Republicans.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
George II
(67,782 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
aikoaiko
(34,183 posts)This apparent ability is what he and his surrogates claim is a good reason to elect him.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
OilemFirchen
(7,143 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
aikoaiko
(34,183 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Voltaire2
(13,158 posts)nobody.
At least Sanders isn't running around pretending he can.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
OilemFirchen
(7,143 posts)We should nominate a candidate who proffers massive, unrealistic, dramatic changes to our system of governance and to our economy, knowing that they'll never even inch forward, with no interest whatsoever in reaching across the aisle for any compromise. One who already has a record of an inability to work even with his own colleagues on matters of significance and who is, in fact, antagonistic toward anyone with whom he has any disagreement.
We shouldn't, however, nominate a candidate who will work feverishly to right the ship and promises to attempt compromise. One who has a long history of doing so.
Because pretense.
Sure! Why the fuck not?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Skya Rhen
(2,701 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Voltaire2
(13,158 posts)going back to some mythical past where both parties worked together for the common good.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
OilemFirchen
(7,143 posts)Even if that progress is nothing more than regress to late 2016.
Perhaps in your rarefied atmosphere, you can eat the pie in the sky. I don't believe the rest of us have that luxury.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Eliot Rosewater
(31,121 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
sheshe2
(83,898 posts)Well said.
Thank you.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
George II
(67,782 posts)....to support his "own" caucus?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
W_HAMILTON
(7,873 posts)That he is going to create some sort of """revolution""" that will overthrow all those Republican obstructionists and allow his plans to be enacted.
Yeah, right.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
George II
(67,782 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BootinUp
(47,187 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
emmaverybo
(8,144 posts)no working with Congress on gun control.
This OP provides documentation of Bidens mojo during the Obama administration.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=262162
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
aikoaiko
(34,183 posts)His supporters say he can do this, but the example is from a long time ago and apparently he could not do the same in Obama's second term. My point is that this Senate is not the senate of days of yore. His ability to work with the other side and get things done might have been true for a Senate that no longer exists.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Skya Rhen
(2,701 posts)The difference, during a Biden presidency, will be that Joe will be more palpable to him than Obama was.
Joe was able to save the economy and ensure a second Obama term under Mitchs hatred toward Obama. Imagine what Joe can do with a Mitch that does not hate Biden a fraction as much as Obama...
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
pnwmom
(108,994 posts)McConnell won't be any more happy about letting Biden accomplish anything than he was with Obama. His overlords wouldn't want that.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
George II
(67,782 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
aikoaiko
(34,183 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Gothmog
(145,554 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Politicub
(12,165 posts)He and his supporters should just own up to it. No candidate is perfect.
Sanders has made some misguided moves when it comes to firearms. Some have been for political expediency (Vermont politics or some excuse like that), scheduling (see the OP), and others for reasons I don't quite understand.
Here's a cut and paste from the Sanders campaign website:
- Expand background checks.
- End the gun show loophole. All gun purchases should be subject to the same background check standards.
- Ban the sale and distribution of assault weapons. Assault weapons are designed and sold as tools of war. There is absolutely no reason why these firearms should be sold to civilians.
- Prohibit high-capacity ammunition magazines.
- Crack down on straw purchases where people buy guns for criminals.
Since there's little detail about the policy that would be enacted to bring about these changes, they're hard to judge.
Beto's gun buyback proposal is a great idea for getting more weapons off the streets. Sanders does not propose anything that would reduce the number of firearms already in circulation.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
pnwmom
(108,994 posts)to product liability laws.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Politicub
(12,165 posts)Theres a wide gulf in between the crackdown I would like to see and the meager proposals from Sanders.
It angers me that arms providers are immune from liability.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
TCJ70
(4,387 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)In 2015, a judge cited the law to stop a lawsuit from the parents of an Aurora, Colorado, mass shooting victim against gun and ammo sellers that supplied the shooter with thousands of rounds of ammunition.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
TCJ70
(4,387 posts)...and generally don't disagree with it. That doesn't seem to be what the other poster is talking about, though. What legislation did he vote AGAINST?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Of course. No doubt...
If any of his rivals had this voting record... it would be a different story about how progressive they actually were.
He voted repeatedly against the 1993 Brady Bill that created the nations background check system. In December 2015, after launching his presidential bid, he urged funding research into firearms injuries, after opposing it in the late 1990s. Sanders also voted to close the gun show loophole in 1999.
The 2005 gun manufacturer immunity law may be most problematic for Sanders.
I am assuming that the poster you are questioning is referring to the bill I mentioned, but got the negatives mixed up - he voted "against" gun manufacturer liability by voting "Yes" to this bill. Which is an accurate statement.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
pnwmom
(108,994 posts)them from product liability laws. And many people concerned about gun legislation disagree with that.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
TCJ70
(4,387 posts)...while it does stop manufacturers from being sued if their product is used in a crime, other areas of liability are still applicable. To say that they're exempt from liability laws is way too broad of a way to convey what the law actually does.
Specifically:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protection_of_Lawful_Commerce_in_Arms_Act
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
pnwmom
(108,994 posts)helped them escape responsibility.
From the link you just posted:
In 2000, Smith & Wesson, facing several state and federal lawsuits, signed an agreement brokered by President Bill Clinton, in which the company voluntarily agreed to implementing various measures in order to settle the suits.[4][5] The agreement required Smith & Wesson to sell guns only through dealers that complied with the restrictions on all guns sold regardless of manufacturer, thus potentially having a much wider potential impact than just Smith & Wesson.[6]
HUD Secretary Andrew Cuomo was quoted as saying that gun manufacturers that did not comply would suffer "death by a thousand cuts", and Eliott Spitzer said that those who didn't cooperate would have bankruptcy lawyers "knocking at your door".[7]
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
betsuni
(25,618 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)or something.
Sid
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
He has a very high NRA approval rating for pro-gun activity.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
kcr
(15,320 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)No wonder his campaign staff and other supporters are trying to suppress and distract from the facts.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
It explains the campaign hiring choices and everything, but it won't work.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
tirebiter
(2,539 posts)<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="ar"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">In the Senate, <a href="https://twitter.com/SenFeinstein?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@SenFeinstein</a> and I led the successful effort to ban assault weapons and high-capacity magazines. It worked. It saved lives.<br><br>As president, Ill take on the <a href="https://twitter.com/NRA?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@NRA</a> and ban military-style weapons once again.<a href="https://t.co/bPPJXCdQWt">https://t.co/bPPJXCdQWt</a></p> Joe Biden (@JoeBiden) <a href="
Link to tweet
?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">١١ أغسطس ٢٠١٩</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden