Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumBeto: I want to be clear: Americans who own AR-15s AK&-47s will have to sell their assault weapons
Beto O'Rourke
@BetoORourke
·
11m
I was asked how I'd address people's fears that we will take away their assault rifles.
I want to be clear: That's exactly what we're going to do. Americans who own AR-15s and AK-47s will have to sell their assault weapons. All of them.
Link to tweet
?s=20
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
bigtree
(86,005 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
madville
(7,412 posts)That Beto has no interest in TX statewide office like the Senate or Governor.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MichMan
(11,972 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
eShirl
(18,503 posts)swords into plowshares
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LiberalFighter
(51,084 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Politicub
(12,165 posts)And then the weapons will be destroyed in some form or fashion.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Newest Reality
(12,712 posts)in Australia and the results were very good as far as gun deaths, (both shootings and suicides) were concerned. Ah, they didn't have a shamefully high murder gun rate like the US.
Ah, that was about 650,000 guns, BTW. Wow! Gee, I wonder how many thousands would be bought back here, and how much of a violent fuss the "protect my right to be paranoid" crowd would make?
Australia confiscated 650,000 guns. Murders and suicides plummeted.
https://www.vox.com/2015/8/27/9212725/australia-buyback
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
paleotn
(17,960 posts)Here's some cash in exchange. Now go find a less lethal hobby. You know, one that doesn't involve the deaths of 6 year olds.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Eliot Rosewater
(31,121 posts)of "this is my hobby or my recreational venue, I want it and you better not take it from me"
If my toy caused these deaths, I would get a new one.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
pattyloutwo
(279 posts)Thank you, Beto!!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
aeromanKC
(3,327 posts)Or at least a felony. (yes, I know)
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MichMan
(11,972 posts)If you order people to sell something, whom would it be sold to?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
bucolic_frolic
(43,287 posts)Cash for clunkers?
Cash for guns.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MichMan
(11,972 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
bucolic_frolic
(43,287 posts)Government has a lot of power when you pass a law, or enact a policy. Put kids in cages. Send ICE to certain areas. There's always the possibility of selective enforcement, where the law is not applied equally, but then how could it?
Cash for clunkers forced clunkers to have their engines seized with glass pellets. Of course government destroyed a lot of alcohol during prohibition, you're seen the films.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MichMan
(11,972 posts)People were not required to turn in every car that fit
the criteria, it was voluntary with incentives. People that did not want to participate were perfectly free to keep their cars.
That is not what is being proposed here.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
bucolic_frolic
(43,287 posts)voluntary or mandatory or confiscatory. That's the nature of laws and government and the social compact. Beto's proposal is involuntary with compensation.
Not everyone agrees with all laws, or most laws. But the lawmaking and enforcement is usually beyond the control of the governed.
We may not agree with babies in cages, but our government has at the moment caged some of them.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DrToast
(6,414 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
aeromanKC
(3,327 posts)Government could recoup their money by pay per view the meltdown!! Win/win/win!!!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DrToast
(6,414 posts)They can use the scrap to build Wayne LaPierre a new mansion.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Tarheel_Dem
(31,240 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
evertonfc
(1,713 posts)there goes Texas. It's beautiful policy ( although it could never be implemented) but lousey politics.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
kimbutgar
(21,188 posts)Might change peoples minds. You cant go to the store shopping, to the movies, drive down the highway, to your church or pick up your kid at school and not fear some gun humper whos unhinged shooting you or a loved one.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
JohnnyLib2
(11,212 posts)Some future history book will probably use that quote about a shift in U.S. policy.
I hope!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Newest Reality
(12,712 posts)Australia has already done that. It was successful. They bought back 650,000 guns.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Tipperary
(6,930 posts)That just will not fly with many.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
JanetLovesObama
(548 posts)They are the ones who gave us drumpf. Beto will carry Texas and that is all he needs for the win.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Tipperary
(6,930 posts)But Beto wont carry Texas.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Jake Stern
(3,145 posts)The states we need back in our column to beat Trump.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Amimnoch
(4,558 posts)Ive been saying since the beginning Beto can bring Texas in because of the freaky nationalism that Texas has, and Texan vs New Yorker campaign could well be the bump that brings in Texas 38 electoral college votes and probably a Senate seat with him.
I agree with this policy. I think it may be helpful in regaining traction with his primary campaign, but I do fear this may have just lost him his largest edge.. These words will be run in ads all over the Mid-west and Texas if he secures the nomination, and it could very well have killed off his chances both areas.
Have to focus on what gains the 270.. positions like this put it in jeopardy.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
LudwigPastorius
(9,170 posts)A more realistic approach would be to amend the National Firearms Act to require registration of these guns and to tax the ever living shit out of them, just like government does with fully automatic weapons. Failure to register would be a serious crime. A high capacity magazine ban and mandatory background checks on ALL gun sales are also crucial.
While advocating the seizure of these weapons is a bold stance for a presidential hopeful to take, that would be very unpopular with a good percentage of the American population.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MichMan
(11,972 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
LudwigPastorius
(9,170 posts)...as that couldn't be seriously argued by gun owners that it was a violation of the 2nd Amendment, like a confiscation program could.
Restrictions, registration, and taxes on certain high-powered weapons have been in effect for the past 85 years.
They'd grumble, but they couldn't trot out the hyperbole that all Democrats are "tryin' tah take away mah gunz!".
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
hughee99
(16,113 posts)The wealthy who can afford them!
Im sure that will be both wildly popular and effective.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
aikoaiko
(34,183 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
yaesu
(8,020 posts)which is now worth about $500
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
aeromanKC
(3,327 posts)a fool and his money.....
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
oasis
(49,408 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MadDAsHell
(2,067 posts)A loss which will probably make an AR ban unsuccessful.
The "deal with it" approach to the nuclear option also completely backfired.
"Deal with it" politics are typically irrational and short-sighted.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
oasis
(49,408 posts)citizens volunteered handing over their assault weapons prior to the buy back date.
American's are ready to step up.
There is nothing more "short sighted" than allowing needless slaughter for fear of voter reprisal.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)"Mislabeling doesn't help though. Actually labeling in general doesn't help"
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MadDAsHell
(2,067 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
kimbutgar
(21,188 posts)Gun buy back programs. Friggin coward who should drop out. I applaud Beto for having the courage to say this.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Traildogbob
(8,801 posts)Build the wall on Northern Texas border, buy all the assault weapons in the remaining 49 states, sell them to Texans for pennies on the dollar and let Abbott and the rest shoot each other out of existence. God given right to eliminate yourselves. Maybe pay per view to recoup the buy back. Don't hate, this is sarcasm. But, they could care less who dies, as long as they can stroke the long guns. The ones God insisted they had the right to own. Will someone refer to the verse that states that right, in THE book?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
captain queeg
(10,242 posts)They had a ban before, but no collecting existing guns. Thatll be the hard part.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Mr.Bill
(24,319 posts)Just make it a very bad idea with serious consequences to not turn them in.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)turn them in. Thatll help. Then, when some poor pitiful gun-bumper gets caught with one, fine the heck out of them and ban them from owning even a B.B. gun or Whamo slingshot.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
oldsoftie
(12,602 posts)I imagine many would be "lost" in a boating accident. And I also doubt we'll spend a ton of money searching everyones home who "may" have one. Not to mention the Constitutional challenges involved.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Mr.Bill
(24,319 posts)They would have 30 days to report how they lost their guns in a "boating accident" or however. Lying on the report would be a federal felony. Then 30 days to turn them in, whether for a buyback and whatever the price. After that possession would be a federal felony with mandatory prison sentences. If the guns are registered to them, and they do not follow through on this, then other penalties would ensue. They would lose any governmental licenses or clearances, state and federal, including their driver's license or any professional licenses. Fines could be levied and income tax refunds impounded or wages garnished to pay fines.
Now I'm not saying any of this is going to happen. But this is how it could be done with legislation alone, and nobody would have to kick down doors and physically take any guns from anybody.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MichMan
(11,972 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Mr.Bill
(24,319 posts)Remember when the federal government mandated a 55 mph speed limit on every highway in the country?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BannonsLiver
(16,448 posts)Under the scenario O'Rourke lays out if they were caught with them for any reason they would face serious legal problems up to and including jail time. So they can keep them at their own risk, of course. I wouldn't want to be caught with one under that scenario but not everyone is as risk averse.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Mr.Bill
(24,319 posts)the penalty that would get their attention would be a lifetime ban on them owning any firearms.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,433 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
USALiberal
(10,877 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,433 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
USALiberal
(10,877 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,433 posts)become law, would expand the already overly powerful carceral state.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
USALiberal
(10,877 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
oldsoftie
(12,602 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Newest Reality
(12,712 posts)It was a big success, accomplished the goal and 650,000 guns were taken out of circulation.
Now, Australia is rather rugged, but is the US that violent and aggressive that it wouldn't work at all? I think most of us are tired of protecting "my right to be paranoid" rather than Second Amendment rights.
One of the most significant provisions of the NFA was a flat-out ban on certain kinds of guns, such as automatic and semi-automatic rifles and shotguns. But there were already a number of such guns in circulation in Australia, and the NFA required getting them off the streets.
Australia solved this problem by introducing a mandatory buyback: Australia's states would take away all guns that had just been declared illegal. In exchange, they'd pay the guns' owners a fair price, set by a national committee using market value as a benchmark, to compensate for the loss of their property. The NFA also offered legal amnesty for anyone who handed in illegally owned guns, though they weren't compensated
https://www.vox.com/2015/8/27/9212725/australia-buyback
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,433 posts)proposing would be a success.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
paleotn
(17,960 posts)Oh! Right! The same government that doesn't allow you to own a BAR or hand grenades for extremely good reasons? That overly powerful, carceral state?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,433 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
paleotn
(17,960 posts)The one that sets the rules when it comes to consumer and environmental protection, so there's at least some penalty for contaminating your neighbor's well water with arsenic and PCBs. And kids don't die as often from preventable respiratory illnesses caused by the company next door flexing their "freedom" out their smokestack. The one that sets health standards so that people don't have to freaking die before we recognize the producers that are cutting corners with meat contamination or the efficacy of pharmaceuticals. Some certainly slip through the cracks, but imagine what it would be like without those "onerous regulations." We can certainly go back to those times. Back to Upton Sinclair's jungle and patent "medicine". If your workplace is grossly unsafe, so what? You can always find a job somewhere else. Right? Of course, in that world, there's no rule that says somewhere else has to be safe either. Or that somewhere else can't work you 12+ hours per day, 6 days per week with zero overtime. Organize? They hire private armies to ensure you don't organize. Strike and you're automatically fired, if not arrested. Ah, "the good ole days" before that onerous government got all involved in our lives.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,433 posts)it were! In the meantime, go off I guess.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Newest Reality
(12,712 posts)Why can't we have hand grenades, rocket launchers, bazookas and even Neighborhood Nuclear Superiority to protect our freedoms? The government is obligated to secure the right to be very paranoid and prepared for guerilla warfare, no?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
paleotn
(17,960 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,433 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Music Man
(1,184 posts)Australia has the most well-known mandatory buyback program, and it was a rousing success.
The right to bear arms is a spectrum, and the federal government has every right to say what specific guns are allowed to be in circulation. You're not allowed to own a fully automatic rifle, and we're not changing that any time soon. What is the justification for owning even an AR-15 or AK-47? Instead of simply banning them, AR-15 and AK-47 owners are getting compensation. Sounds like a pretty gracious deal to me.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
sandensea
(21,664 posts)What a quandary.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
oldsoftie
(12,602 posts)Probably even more than a dozen.
A better solution would be getting rid of high cap magazines. Its rate of fire thats the biggest threat, not style of rifle. NO HIGH CAP MAGAZINES!!
Not to mention a few simple modifications and an AR wouldnt qualify for a ban anymore. Same thing happened with the assault weapons ban; some cosmetic changes and voila, a legal gun!
We would certainly be safer if NO guns were ever here. But they are, 300 million of them, and they wont be turned in or sold or seized.The genie is out of the bottle, sadly. Its just like saying "get rid of all nuclear weapons!" SOMEONE will always cheat that ban and keep one. Or 12.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LonePirate
(13,431 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
oldsoftie
(12,602 posts)Its nice to think about but we really need to deal with reality.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LonePirate
(13,431 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
oldsoftie
(12,602 posts)I think strong red flag laws would get a lot of these people. And getting rid of high capacity magazines. THOSE are the real problem. Hunting rifles are far more powerful than an AR type weapon. But they dont fire 40 rounds at a time. ALL of these are "semi auto". You cant ban the TYPE, because almost every one out there qualifies as such.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
paleotn
(17,960 posts)Then the magazine issue is mute. Full auto was banned and I don't see folks flaunting those laws. Simple reason is, you get caught with one, you're going to the pokey for a very long time. Same with semi-auto will get the point across. Or is taking extraordinary action to protect the lives of innocent people too much to ask? Might crimp someones style. Can't have that, can we.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MichMan
(11,972 posts)The number of people currently possessing semi auto firearms is much much higher
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
I can see the capitulation speech now. Well, there's just too many firearms out there for us to get off our dead asses and do anything about it. So many of you are simply going to have to die......sorry.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
oldsoftie
(12,602 posts)Thats the difference between us and other countries. Most of them NEVER had the weapons to start with so its been much easier to control
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
oldsoftie
(12,602 posts)Thats the definition.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
calimary
(81,467 posts)that leads to
Oh well, never mind...
Oh, really? Aw shit, back to the drawing board...
Hmmm... not a perfect solution...
Might not work...
But what about - ...
Probably wont make any difference...
Yeah, but - ...
Dont know if they can do that...
Meh, whats the use?
We not gonna get them all...
Theyll just use another gun...
and any number of other discouraging words.
Screw that! Folks, its a START, dammit! WEVE GOT TO START SOMEWHERE, DAMMIT!!!
Yes. Im SHOUTING! And rather unapologetically at that!
I would answer all of the above with the following question:
So then we do NOTHING????
I just will not accept delivery of theres nothing we can do. Aint doin it. Besides, thats what the bad guys want. Thats what theyre banking on. Quite literally! Theyve spent hundreds of millions over years on perception management, influencing and steering and adjusting our views, opinions, reactions, and responses. Using advertising, talking points packaged for talking-heads-for-hire, wholly-owned public figures and celebrity shills, manufactured news and comment, billboards, hate radio, and Oy the Internet.
NO! I refuse. I wont just do nothing. I wont quit or give up or concede defeat or simply hand them the win. (Thats their goal: domination and conquest.) I sure wont keep silent. (Thats what theyre wishing and hoping and strategizing and spending all that money to achieve.)
Beat them.
Or make em defend it.
Make em have to work harder and spend way more money than theyd expected or planned for.
Mess with em, interfere in their plans, frustrate their ambitions, block their progress, ruin their day. And up-end their agenda. Keep getting in the way. Sugar in their gas tank and shortsheet their beds.
Destabilize the enemy. Now happens to be a pretty good time for it.
I think its starting to dawn on the GOP that their battle is increasingly uphill. Theyre no longer standing on such smug, swaggering, cocky, were golden, Im-gonna-get-away-with-it ground. Evidence is all around us: slumping poll numbers; shaky economy; uncertainty, problems, and chaos everywhere; not getting along with our friends anymore; promises broken or not kept; bad policy if you can even call it that - and worse execution. Add a so-called chief executive who is increasingly out-of-touch, manifestly losing his mind, and whose words and statements are worth nothing because the selfish idiot jerk lies all the time! AND he goes out to play golf while the coastal southeast is getting hit by what is now, literally, a killer hurricane.
AND now theres lots of attention turning to the onslaught of 2020 Democrats, TOO!
AND not a week goes by that we dont learn that more GOPers are resigning from both Congress and the Senate which means more seats to defend. And that gets expensive - something they probably didnt budget for.
This is a CAPITAL idea to start destabilizing the enemy. I used to talk about it here and one time even had that phrase in my sig line.
Seriously. The current is flowing OUR way. Its ours to exploit. The time is right, again. If we dont seize it, and exploit it, then we dont deserve this gift confluence of downers for donald. nor do we deserve to win.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
calimary
(81,467 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
SunSeeker
(51,698 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
warmfeet
(3,321 posts)I don't own one, and have no reason to.
No one else has a reason to own one either.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
aikoaiko
(34,183 posts)Literally promising to take away guns from law-abiding voters is going to make us lose for a long time.
This could impact 20 - 100 million people based on the definition of evil weapons from the last failed AWB legislation.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)vote for trump and other GOPers over not being able to buy another AR15. I don't think those threats/fears are going to work much longer.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
aikoaiko
(34,183 posts)..who may become disenchanted with our leadership.
I know you know, but this is a more extreme policy than our policy on authentic machine guns.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
aikoaiko
(34,183 posts)Ill have to fight such a policy with everything I have.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
aikoaiko
(34,183 posts)Im attached to not being betrayed by my government who Once agreed I could possess these firearms, done nothing to be a prohibited person, and still have them removed when I did nothing wrong.
But we shall see . It probably wont come to that.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
aikoaiko
(34,183 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
J_William_Ryan
(1,756 posts)All thats needed is a ten-round magazine limit thats it.
Its not the pistol grip, collapsible stock, bayonet lug, or being semi-automatic that makes an AR 15 so lethal its the 30-round magazine.
Otherwise, no such legislation will be enacted anytime soon.
And O'Rourke will not be the Democratic nominee; indeed, his advocacy for such a policy has ended his political career at least in Texas.
O'Rourke likely knows this hence his advocacy for such a naïve and untenable policy.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
oldsoftie
(12,602 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)these weapons.
Marketeers for Bushmaster -- their AR15 was used at Sandy Hook -- know what motivates these losers:
?ops=scalefit_720_noupscale
Truthfully, this may help O'Rourke.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
dalton99a
(81,578 posts)Assault rifles are not enough to repel a burglar.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
dalton99a
(81,578 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
jcgoldie
(11,646 posts)Fuck that shit. Beto is right. And its about time someone had the balls to say it.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
NYMinute
(3,256 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Joe941
(2,848 posts)Eventually it has to be all guns.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
samir.g
(835 posts)too bad so sad
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Devil Child
(2,728 posts)My position is "just say no" to so-called assault-weapon bans.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Music Man
(1,184 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
namahage
(1,157 posts)https://www.tulsigabbard.org/tulsi-gabbard-on-gun-safety-legislation
A federal ban on military-style assault weapons and high capacity magazines
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Devil Child
(2,728 posts)Even though I think they are dead wrong with meaningless "assault-weapon" bans.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
hack89
(39,171 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
hack89
(39,171 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BlueTsunami2018
(3,503 posts)He clearly no longer has statewide aspirations and he was never going to be the Presidential nominee. Hes pretty much ended his career by doing this.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
madville
(7,412 posts)He could always move to another state if he wanted to continue his political career I guess.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
dalton99a
(81,578 posts)Gun control was part of his Senate campaign
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
madville
(7,412 posts)Excellent example.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
dalton99a
(81,578 posts)Beto is highly popular among Texas Democrats. Further, he doesn't need a government job to support his family (or collect bribes)
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden