Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumIs Trump's Plan To Have Barr Simply Indict the Democratic Nominee? Does Trump Have a Choice?
Trump has pretty brazenly requested foreign assistance in his election mentioning not only Biden, but Elizabeth Warren in calls with foreign governments. Trump has been offering significant incentives, including hundreds of millions in aide to the Ukraine and dialing back the trade war with China. For a couple of million, I am sure someone will gin something up to share with the DOJ to begin an investigation and perhaps even indict whoever the Democratic nominee is.
The whole key to this scheme is that Trump knows that Republicans will vote against convicting him in the Senate and he has Fox News and a whole RW media apparatus that will legitimize any action taken by him. If the Feds arrest or indict the Democratic nominee, and Republicans in the Senate are willing to vote against impeachment, you really can't do anything. At that point, with a Republican appointed majority in the Supreme Court, Republican control of the Senate, and a President who is willing to do anything to hold on to office, there is nothing you can do.
Massive Protests? Look at Hong Kong. Election results? Ignore them or seek foreign interference. Trump is more than willing to dismiss any State results against him as being the result of massive voter fraud.
Thus, I don't think we truly appreciate the danger our democracy is in. The White House is simply going to ignore the impeachment proceedings with the expectation that the Supreme Court will generally support it.
The whole problem is that too many Republicans are in too deep. McConnell. Pence. The so-called adults in the room have all been compromised. Thus, there is no upside to Republicans to respecting rule of law. They might as well go all-in on subverting our Democracy, because of the risk of being held accountable.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
dem4decades
(11,304 posts)Get dirt on my opponent and the tariffs will go away?
Why not. It appears to be in his playbook.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Mr.Bill
(24,330 posts)they are currently failing miserably at it.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
TomCADem
(17,390 posts)Their goal is to paint the impeachment proceedings as illegitimate for their base.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Quemado
(1,262 posts)He's shown that he's willing to do anything and everything for his own benefit.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
TomCADem
(17,390 posts)Also, what do you do if Barr and the DOJ simply indict and arrest the Democratic nominee? Massive protests? Like Hong Kong?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Quemado
(1,262 posts)It's pretty clear that Trump committed a crime while in office with the Ukraine situation (among other crimes he's committed). The crime was serious enough to warrant and justify impeachment. IMO, House Dems must go on the record as being against a president who commits crimes while in office.
The House must place the burden on the Senate to try Trump. If the Senate won't remove Trump, Senate Republicans will be on the record as not removing a criminal from office.
If Barr and the DOJ indict and arrest the Democratic nominee, yes, I think those who are willing and able to participate in massive protests should do so. And, I think the House Dems should impeach Barr if he does indict and arrest the Democratic nominee.
This is a situation where the stakes are high, and the outcome could be ugly. If the House doesn't impeach Trump, Trump could claim exoneration. If the House impeaches, but the Senate doesn't remove Trump, Trump will claim exoneration. The only good outcome is a successful impeachment.
Unfortunately, this is the system and the situation that we have. We have a flawed Constitution and a bogus DOJ memo that says a sitting President can't be indicted. We have a sitting president who's willing to do anything and everything that benefits him. We have an Attorney General who acts like he's the personal lawyer for the president.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Mike 03
(16,616 posts)He just has to imbue them with the stink of being "under investigation." That's what they did to Hillary. Bury them in discredited scandals and libelous allegations.
I'm also having a lot of trouble seeing how we get out of our current situation for the very reasons you set forth, short of extremely aggressive legal actions like Inherent Contempt, Writs of Mandamus and some things we probably haven't heard of yet. That is why, although the past two weeks have been thrilling, I'm still worried.
Also, I really do believe the Bidens should sue Trump and Giuliani. I don't know if it will make a difference but it's something.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
qazplm135
(7,447 posts)1. A subset of the public were primed by 30 years of smears to believe Hillary was possibly crooked.
2. It's been borne out that there was nothing there
3. It's clear to a lot of folks that the AG (Barr) is in the tank for Trump
4. It's clear to a lot of folks that Trump will use the government for his own political purposes
So I just don't think the stink will actually be there, particularly if there isn't any actual evidence.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
DrFunkenstein
(8,745 posts)His reputation now is that he's one of Trump's flying monkeys.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Lulu KC
(2,574 posts)But I'm getting a feeling that Nancy and Adam Schiff et al are going to surprise everyone with something very quickly, and that it will derail whatever plan DT has up his poorly-tailored sleeve.
I can't turn away from the news.
I'm sad that it's the weekend and that we won't hear much until Monday except for talking heads analyzing things we already know.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
The Liberal Lion
(1,414 posts)It's been my belief for the longest time that there was going to be some event that trump would use to "cancel" or "delay" the election. I think of all the things I've thought of (and this idea never came to my mind) this is the most real possibility.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
TomCADem
(17,390 posts)If there is one clear constant in Trump's behavior is that he seems to require those in his administration to demonstrate their loyalty by engaging in increasingly unethical and illegal acts. Of course, at some point, someone might draw the line like Jeff Sessions did when he recused himself from the Russia investigation. Of course, at that point, Trump made it his mission to destroy Jeff Sessions.
With Barr, Pompeo, and Pence, you have the same dynamic at work. You make a deal with the devil, and the devil keeps on asking for his due. Look at the Ukraine diplomats who tried to modestly push back on Trump's efforts to buy a smear with congressionally approved military aide. The moment they push back, Trump threatens their careers, safety and freedom.
I think we have reached the point where too many Republicans are personally in too deep. If you had to choose between criminal prosecution for being a Trump accomplish versus falling in line, and working to actively subvert American democracy, I think most folks in Trump's administration will choose to save themselves. After all, it is slippery slope. After you have repeatedly ignored the laws and ethical obligations, what's makes Barr, Pence or Pompeo suddenly decide to develop conscience?
Instead, having sold their soul, they are now committed to ensuring that Trump "wins" by any means necessary. Even Fox News is in no different shape. Having pumped up Trump at every opportunity, they are now selling trade wars and seeking foreign interference as being perfectly normal.
We are in too deep.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden