Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!
 

highplainsdem

(48,998 posts)
Thu Oct 24, 2019, 08:11 PM Oct 2019

If Obama could change his mind about Super PACs, so can Biden

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2012/02/07/obama-and-super-pacs-in-the-2012-election/


What is one to make of Obama’s decision? Some argue he has squandered the moral high ground, weakened his ability to contrast his positions on inequality and special interest influence with those of his Republican opponent, and discouraged those among his supporters who put a high premium on changing the unseemly and corrupting role of money in politics. Others on the political right have plenty of room to attack him for hypocrisy, political expediency, old-style cynical politics.

My own view is that his change in posture toward the role of super PACs on his side of the aisle, while truly regrettable, was inevitable given the lack of any progress on the underlying problems. The acknowledged costs of making this shift are outweighed by the benefits of covering the risk of being blown away (along with Democrats in Congress) by truly massive “independent” spending campaigns financed by conservative billionaires and aggrieved financial services executives. The ugly arms race on campaign finance is unlikely to be ended through unilateral disarmament, especially if it puts in power politicians committed to a complete deregulation of money in politics.

Changing course on campaign finance law and practice will require new justices on the Supreme Court, strong appointments to the FEC, increased support for reform in Congress, and a president willing to advocate for and sign remedial legislation. First things first.




https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/analysis-opinion/obamas-super-pac-flip-flop


The mock outrage at President Obama’s campaign for blessing contributions to the Super PAC supporting him, Priorities USA, is a distraction from the real questions about today’s campaign finance environment — how to stop the abuses, and who will provide the leadership needed to achieve meaningful change.

The president’s apparent about-face — from condemning “the corrosive influence of money in politics” in the State of the Union to his campaign’s announcement that it will “do what [it] can, consistent with the law, to support Priorities USA” — provided plenty of fodder for critics. But it’s not surprising. In 2008, Obama reversed course, too — he first planned to participate in the presidential public financing program, but later eschewed it when it became clear he could raise more money outside the system.

The reality in 2012 is that no candidate with a serious chance of winning can afford, in the words of Obama for America campaign manager Jim Messina, to “unilaterally disarm.” The campaign fundraising arms race this election cycle, like it or not, involves Super PACs. They’ve already dumped $40 million of slash-and-burn attack ads into the Republican presidential primaries. Karl Rove’s Super PAC alone, working with a related non-profit group, raised $51 million last year.

However disappointing it was to campaign reform advocates, the only surprise about the Obama campaign’s decision to play by the same rules is that it waited this long to make the announcement. Any campaign that doesn’t take advantage of the rules that permit super spending by Super PACs doesn’t stand a chance.



Emphasis added.


Trump's raising an enormous amount of money.

We have to beat him. And almost all the polling so far shows that Biden has the best chance of doing that. Even the few polls showing Warren leading also show, if there are questions about electability, that more Democrats think Biden has the best chance of beating Trump than think Warren has the best chance.

The lengths Trump has gone to, trying to guarantee anyone but Biden is the Democratic nominee, indicate his own polling shows Biden will beat him.

Until we actually have real campaign finance reform -- which Biden supports -- I don't want to see any of our candidates in favor of unilateral disarmament.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
34 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
If Obama could change his mind about Super PACs, so can Biden (Original Post) highplainsdem Oct 2019 OP
Totally Agree DownriverDem Oct 2019 #1
Thanks hpd! Scurrilous Oct 2019 #2
Obama didn't tap a Super PAC in the primaries. crazytown Oct 2019 #3
You think this opens the door on a negative campaign? What in hell do you think Trump has been highplainsdem Oct 2019 #6
I'll quote the man himself crazytown Oct 2019 #11
IF a pro-Biden Super PAC goes negative against Democratic rivals, complain about it then. highplainsdem Oct 2019 #13
Agreed. crazytown Oct 2019 #14
+1000 emmaverybo Oct 2019 #15
This.. knives at gun fights never win!! Thekaspervote Oct 2019 #18
OKay, I have no problem with Teach-only-love Oct 2019 #17
Are you serious? boomer_wv Oct 2019 #29
Take all the PAC money you want in the GE Teach-only-love Oct 2019 #4
See reply 6. Trump is already waging a GE-style campaign against Biden. He isn't waiting until highplainsdem Oct 2019 #7
Very interesting look at the debate on this issue when it involved Obama and a well-reasoned emmaverybo Oct 2019 #5
Joe Biden.. Cha Oct 2019 #9
I'm happy Biden changed his mind.. Cha Oct 2019 #8
Me too!! Those posting negatives about this is nothing more than pearl clutching!! Thekaspervote Oct 2019 #19
lol.. sad but Cha Oct 2019 #20
Worrying about Biden somehow being corrupted by what super PACs do is a waste of time. betsuni Oct 2019 #10
Well said, betsuni.. as usual you get to Cha Oct 2019 #21
Dad said he'd take us to the lake this weekend but he changed his mind. I'm going to my room to cry. betsuni Oct 2019 #23
lol.. Cha Oct 2019 #24
Made me laugh! peggysue2 Oct 2019 #27
On the other hand, at least Biden changed his mind, he didn't "not" change his mind but... George II Oct 2019 #12
I am perplexed by Joe Raven123 Oct 2019 #16
He didn't know that he would have to spend millions more to defend himself against Trump's lies. The Skya Rhen Oct 2019 #22
Excellent explanation, Skya.. Cha Oct 2019 #25
Agree. I do not think Trump fears the others-- in part because he sees a counter-offensive campaign emmaverybo Oct 2019 #26
And this has been the pattern from the start peggysue2 Oct 2019 #30
I could not agree more, but you said it beautifully: emmaverybo Oct 2019 #32
No, don't got it. Act_of_Reparation Oct 2019 #34
As long as it is domestic, I don't give a SHIT where the money comes from Maru Kitteh Oct 2019 #28
Seems like i've been hearing this for at KPN Oct 2019 #31
kick highplainsdem Oct 2019 #33
 

DownriverDem

(6,228 posts)
1. Totally Agree
Thu Oct 24, 2019, 08:23 PM
Oct 2019

Until money is taken out of political campaigns. you have to have it to compete. Go Joe!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

crazytown

(7,277 posts)
3. Obama didn't tap a Super PAC in the primaries.
Thu Oct 24, 2019, 08:26 PM
Oct 2019

This opens the door on a negative campaign.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

highplainsdem

(48,998 posts)
6. You think this opens the door on a negative campaign? What in hell do you think Trump has been
Thu Oct 24, 2019, 08:33 PM
Oct 2019

waging against Biden already? Along with the RNC, Trump's campaign made a $10 million ad buy attacking Biden with dishonest ads. And that's on top of all the RW media attacks, all the tweets, and all the strong-arming of Ukraine to try to get them to make up dirt on the Bidens.

They're doing their best to smear Biden in the hope that Warren or another candidate with less chance of beating Trump will be the nominee. They're not afraid of Warren, or not nearly as afraid of her as they are of Biden.

It would be sheer idiocy for the Biden campaign to act as though they aren't already facing attacks from Trump and the RNC.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

crazytown

(7,277 posts)
11. I'll quote the man himself
Thu Oct 24, 2019, 08:37 PM
Oct 2019
You will never hear me speak ill of another Democratic candidate, and there’s a really simple reason for that, we have to be in a position, whoever the nominee is, to be able to win.

I was referring to a negative campaign against Democratic competitors. As a Super Pac must kept at arms length, by law, they are free to go as negative as they want.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

highplainsdem

(48,998 posts)
13. IF a pro-Biden Super PAC goes negative against Democratic rivals, complain about it then.
Thu Oct 24, 2019, 08:42 PM
Oct 2019

In the meantime, Trump is waging a political war against Biden.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Thekaspervote

(32,773 posts)
18. This.. knives at gun fights never win!!
Thu Oct 24, 2019, 09:07 PM
Oct 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Teach-only-love

(73 posts)
17. OKay, I have no problem with
Thu Oct 24, 2019, 08:56 PM
Oct 2019

him defending himself in ads against Trump. But this is provided not a penny is used against his Democratic rivals. This includes organizing his ground game. I like him because, at the present time, he is strongest against Trump, but a PAC for him against other Democrats will lose me.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

boomer_wv

(673 posts)
29. Are you serious?
Thu Oct 24, 2019, 11:39 PM
Oct 2019

In this campaign Biden has been called a pedophile, a rapist, a racist, corrupt, and a traitor.

I think that door has already been opened.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Teach-only-love

(73 posts)
4. Take all the PAC money you want in the GE
Thu Oct 24, 2019, 08:29 PM
Oct 2019

after all, we know Trump is taking it. But do not take in our primary if none of our other candidates are taking it. Especially since Biden stated policy is he could not be bought by special interest PAC's. Once he is our nominee it no longer is a problem. But if he is the only one of our candidates to take it during the primaries, then it is a big problem.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

highplainsdem

(48,998 posts)
7. See reply 6. Trump is already waging a GE-style campaign against Biden. He isn't waiting until
Thu Oct 24, 2019, 08:35 PM
Oct 2019

Biden is the nominee, because he's terrified of Biden.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

emmaverybo

(8,144 posts)
5. Very interesting look at the debate on this issue when it involved Obama and a well-reasoned
Thu Oct 24, 2019, 08:31 PM
Oct 2019

argument you put forth to support Biden’s recent decision on behalf of his campaign.

Candidates re-evaluate positions as exigencies arise, whether of a logistical or political nature.

PS Trump’s folks do do their own polling as you said. They also test their counter-offensive’s strength against Dem candidates. They figured they had to go with an impeachable act to undermine Biden.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Cha

(297,282 posts)
8. I'm happy Biden changed his mind..
Thu Oct 24, 2019, 08:36 PM
Oct 2019

he's going to need money!

The ugly arms race on campaign finance is unlikely to be ended through unilateral disarmament, especially if it puts in power politicians committed to a complete deregulation of money in politics.



Mahalo, hpd!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Thekaspervote

(32,773 posts)
19. Me too!! Those posting negatives about this is nothing more than pearl clutching!!
Thu Oct 24, 2019, 09:10 PM
Oct 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Cha

(297,282 posts)
20. lol.. sad but
Thu Oct 24, 2019, 09:14 PM
Oct 2019

true!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

betsuni

(25,537 posts)
10. Worrying about Biden somehow being corrupted by what super PACs do is a waste of time.
Thu Oct 24, 2019, 08:37 PM
Oct 2019

In my opinion. Republicans are the corrupt ones.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Cha

(297,282 posts)
21. Well said, betsuni.. as usual you get to
Thu Oct 24, 2019, 09:15 PM
Oct 2019

to heart of the matter.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

betsuni

(25,537 posts)
23. Dad said he'd take us to the lake this weekend but he changed his mind. I'm going to my room to cry.
Thu Oct 24, 2019, 09:19 PM
Oct 2019

Now Biden's a "flip-flopper." He promised!!! Is everybody six years old?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Cha

(297,282 posts)
24. lol..
Thu Oct 24, 2019, 09:24 PM
Oct 2019
sorry but this strikes me funny..

Now Biden's a "flip-flopper." He promised!!!

Oh they really smell blood in the water now.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

peggysue2

(10,830 posts)
27. Made me laugh!
Thu Oct 24, 2019, 11:06 PM
Oct 2019

Yes, we're all suppose to running around as if our hair is on fire because Joe Biden changed his mind while a demented conman sits in the White House planning the demise of the Republic.

Makes so much sense. If we've decided national suicide is a good thing, that is.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

George II

(67,782 posts)
12. On the other hand, at least Biden changed his mind, he didn't "not" change his mind but...
Thu Oct 24, 2019, 08:41 PM
Oct 2019

...still accepted help from Super PACs like other candidates.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Raven123

(4,844 posts)
16. I am perplexed by Joe
Thu Oct 24, 2019, 08:44 PM
Oct 2019

I struggle with what I read in other posts on this topic here at DU - one in which he advised Bernie about avoiding PACs to maintain credibility and another identifying his aversion to PACs on principle.

Why make such statements and NOW decide that the moral high ground must wait another day. He MUST have known he would need for large amount of money.

It just mystifies me.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Skya Rhen

(2,701 posts)
22. He didn't know that he would have to spend millions more to defend himself against Trump's lies. The
Thu Oct 24, 2019, 09:17 PM
Oct 2019

other candidates are not feared by Trump so they don't have to use campaign funds to defend themselves against his venom. Got it?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Cha

(297,282 posts)
25. Excellent explanation, Skya..
Thu Oct 24, 2019, 09:28 PM
Oct 2019

I wasn't even thinking about THAT!!!

22. He didn't know that he would have to spend millions more to defend himself against Trump's lies. The other candidates are not feared by Trump so they don't have to use campaign funds to defend themselves against his venom. Got it?

Thank you!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

emmaverybo

(8,144 posts)
26. Agree. I do not think Trump fears the others-- in part because he sees a counter-offensive campaign
Thu Oct 24, 2019, 09:55 PM
Oct 2019

that will work well with independent and swing voters. But to eliminate Biden, so he can run against another top tier, he has had to go to extreme lengths.

He did. He continues.

It is Biden who bears the brunt of the actions of a lawless, but empowered president who has a host of sycophants in his service and can exert influence in far flung corners of the globe to
bring down Biden.

To prove the point that Biden is beset by incoming from more than one source, as he tries now to
raise his own arms against Trump, i.e. financial resources, rival supporters criticize him. The press
will not be far behind.


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

peggysue2

(10,830 posts)
30. And this has been the pattern from the start
Thu Oct 24, 2019, 11:39 PM
Oct 2019

It's one of the perils of being a frontrunner but it's also a product of Trump's particular obsession with Biden, the fear that Bradley spoke to the other night on O'Donnell's program. And that's likely a spill over from Trump's obsession with all things Obama related. The fact that Biden is beating Trump in every head-to-head poll, appeals to the same working class voter that Trump claims he and he alone possesses leaves him wide open to a humiliating loss. The lengths to which he was willing to go to bring Biden down is incredible when you look at the Ukraine evidence unfolding.

So yes, the attacks have been unrelenting and to Trump's chagrin, Joe Biden is still standing. That in and of itself is a testament to Biden's strength and durability. Strengthened by fire, as they say.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

emmaverybo

(8,144 posts)
32. I could not agree more, but you said it beautifully:
Fri Oct 25, 2019, 12:19 AM
Oct 2019

“So yes, the attacks have been unrelenting and to Trump's chagrin, Joe Biden is still standing. That in and of itself is a testament to Biden's strength and durability. Strengthened by fire, as they say.” (PeggySue2)

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Act_of_Reparation

(9,116 posts)
34. No, don't got it.
Fri Oct 25, 2019, 01:43 PM
Oct 2019

You're telling me he got into this race no expecting that he'd have to defend himself against lies?

That's nonsense.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Maru Kitteh

(28,340 posts)
28. As long as it is domestic, I don't give a SHIT where the money comes from
Thu Oct 24, 2019, 11:25 PM
Oct 2019

I care about exactly ONE THING. Trump out. Full stop.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

KPN

(15,646 posts)
31. Seems like i've been hearing this for at
Thu Oct 24, 2019, 11:47 PM
Oct 2019

least 40 years now. The question that rattles around in my head is — at what point do results finally matter? Forty years is not that far from a lifetime when you consider political cognizance.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
Latest Discussions»Retired Forums»Democratic Primaries»If Obama could change his...