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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!
 

Uncle Joe

(58,377 posts)
Sat Oct 26, 2019, 02:30 PM Oct 2019

Which do you believe is worse and why if you care to elaborate?

Last edited Sat Oct 26, 2019, 03:31 PM - Edit history (1)

Edit to add, I believe institutional racism is worse and Bernie's policies would go a long way toward alleviating that aspect.


10 votes, 1 pass | Time left: Unlimited
Individual racism, misogyny, homophobia and xenophobia
1 (10%)
Institutional racism, misogyny, homophobia and xenophobia
9 (90%)
Show usernames
Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
11 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Which do you believe is worse and why if you care to elaborate? (Original Post) Uncle Joe Oct 2019 OP
Institutional racism can be overcome. Polly Hennessey Oct 2019 #1
See below pnwest Oct 2019 #2
why not both? Sherman A1 Oct 2019 #3
You know, this happened to Bernie last time, too. PatrickforO Oct 2019 #4
The problem with the theory that economic equality will lead to racial equality The Velveteen Ocelot Oct 2019 #6
Certainly not overnight but in the long run I believe it will have a dampening effect Uncle Joe Oct 2019 #7
The power of the state or large organizations Buzz cook Oct 2019 #5
I agree Buzz cook. Uncle Joe Oct 2019 #8
The second gives shelter, aid and comfort to the first. nt Blue_true Oct 2019 #9
There can be no doubt... Bartollo Oct 2019 #10
I picked institutional because if validates individual racism...makes racists feel...it is OK Demsrule86 Oct 2019 #11
 

Polly Hennessey

(6,801 posts)
1. Institutional racism can be overcome.
Sat Oct 26, 2019, 02:34 PM
Oct 2019

Individual racism seems almost impossible. The tape is there. Don’t think it can be totally erased.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwest

(3,266 posts)
2. See below
Sat Oct 26, 2019, 02:36 PM
Oct 2019

Individual is (a little) easier to fight, ignore, work around, or even change.

Institutionalized is much bigger, more pervasive, and harder to fight, ignore, work around and especially change.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

PatrickforO

(14,584 posts)
4. You know, this happened to Bernie last time, too.
Sat Oct 26, 2019, 02:51 PM
Oct 2019

He clearly wishes to address institutional racism as part of his economic package, which would materially improve the lives of all Americans. It would, and what he's always seemed to believe is that if you take care of economic injustice, then ending or mitigating most institutional racism will fall into place as part of that.

Unfortunately for him, those who have been personally discriminated against didn't buy that. They want social justice now.

These are people who have had an unarmed family member shot to death by police in questionable circumstances and with no consequence (to the cop). They are people who are old enough to remember klan terror. Or they have had relatives killed in a mass shooting by a right-wing nut job who drove ten hours to kill people of color.

And it isn't just violence. POC have to live with this every day - retail clerks following them around in stores, salespeople offering them an inferior product or the same product at higher interest, differences in service and personal caring levels in hospital - and a thousand and one more examples.

Bernie's heart is in the right place, of course, and to call him racist, or imply he is somehow racist, is simply not true. However, like myself, he does enjoy white privilege, and it may seem smug to many for him to impatiently shrug off those conversations, or even handle them poorly - both of which he has done.

You should note, too, with your survey, that for some on here it will feel like poking a stick into an open wound and twisting. I'm not saying you should take it down, but I will say that there are some very strong feelings on this site, and there are some people who have an almost irrational dislike of Sanders, just as there are those who have an almost irrational dislike of Clinton.

I was a big Bernie supporter in '16 and even got banned from specific forums a couple times. But when he lost and Clinton became the nominee, I supported her. And I voted. What sticks in the craw of many here, who love the party, is that lots of the kids Bernie got 'turned on' to politics and motivated to come out and vote turned around and either pouted at home and did not vote, or worse, voted for Jill Stein or even Johnson the Libertarian.

Now, as the father of two millennials, I certainly understand their cynicism. But I'm thinking that more people now are 'woke,' particularly about climate change. I think they will show up this time. You can't vote Stein and expect to achieve anything by that. Same with the 'purity' socialists. Like Obama said, we cannot allow the perfect to become the enemy of the good.

I wish you the best, and Bernie the best, but this time around I believe both Bernie and Biden supporters will be surprised at the softness of their support. My hope is that they coalesce around whomever emerges. I certainly will.

Don't be surprised, though, if you catch some real blowback from this post. It is a bit divisive and seems designed to 'stir' the proverbial pot.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,776 posts)
6. The problem with the theory that economic equality will lead to racial equality
Sat Oct 26, 2019, 03:09 PM
Oct 2019

is that it doesn't hold up in practice. Wealthy PoC get pulled over by the cops all the time for no reason other than that they're driving an expensive car through an affluent neighborhood and some cop figures they don't belong there because they're black. Having a shit-ton of money doesn't protect black and brown people from discrimination (except in respect of the fact that a well-off victim probably can afford a good lawyer).

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Uncle Joe

(58,377 posts)
7. Certainly not overnight but in the long run I believe it will have a dampening effect
Sat Oct 26, 2019, 03:43 PM
Oct 2019

on our individual societal maladies.

I believe institutional racism, misogyny, homophobia and xenophobia are a by-product of top down wealth/income inequality which in turn is largely fueled by greed addiction.

It's all about power and how that's used to divide the people along whatever fault lines can be found in order to maintain their grip on our economic, political and social lives.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287325346

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Buzz cook

(2,473 posts)
5. The power of the state or large organizations
Sat Oct 26, 2019, 02:52 PM
Oct 2019

Used against the individual has a greater effect than individual vs individual.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Uncle Joe

(58,377 posts)
8. I agree Buzz cook.
Sat Oct 26, 2019, 04:06 PM
Oct 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
9. The second gives shelter, aid and comfort to the first. nt
Sat Oct 26, 2019, 10:00 PM
Oct 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Bartollo

(9 posts)
10. There can be no doubt...
Sat Oct 26, 2019, 11:34 PM
Oct 2019

"If a white man wants to lynch me, that's his problem. If he's got the power to lynch me, that's my problem. Racism is not a question of attitude; it's a question of power. Racism gets its power from capitalism. The power for racism, the power for sexism, comes from capitalism, not an attitude."

(Stokely Carmichael)

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Demsrule86

(68,613 posts)
11. I picked institutional because if validates individual racism...makes racists feel...it is OK
Sun Oct 27, 2019, 11:50 AM
Oct 2019

to be racist scum.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
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