Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumBiden: Insulting those who don't share same approach to reaching goals belongs in the other primary
That thread title is paraphrasing Biden, since the full quote won't fit and I wanted to get the gist in.
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/468692-biden-defends-record-after-warren-attacks-im-a-card-carrying-democrat
Yesterday, Elizabeth Warren suggested I was running in the wrong presidential primary because I believe in building on Obamacare not getting rid of it. That's so wrong, its almost laughable. Ive been a card-carrying Democrat since I was 27. And I am running for president because of my progressive record, Biden wrote in an email to supporters, hitting Warren for registering as a Republican for years before becoming a Democrat.
If my opponents want to have a debate on what they've done to truly implement progressive, meaningful change in our country not what theyre planning, not what theyre proposing, but what theyve accomplished I welcome it, he added, swiping at Warrens Ive got a plan for that mantra. But to hurl insults because we dont share the same approach for the best way to get to the same goal well that is something I would expect in the other primary.
-snip-
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
FloridaBlues
(4,008 posts)I hope it doesn't get worse as the next few months go forward and the squeeze of campaigning can really take its toll.
Sling the arrows at the republicans!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
blm
(113,083 posts)TIA
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
beastie boy
(9,404 posts)The cost projections that we have on Medicare were authenticated by President Obamas head of Medicare. Our revenue projections were authenticated by President Obamas labor economist. And the employer contribution is already part of the Affordable Care Act that President Obama put into the Affordable Care Act. So if Joe Biden doesnt like that, Im just not sure where hes going."
She stated that if Biden doesn't agree with her plan after it was "authenticated" by former Obama officials, he doesn't know where he is going. Not only does this statement make no sense as a defense against Biden's criticism, Warren made it personal In response to his comments about the plan.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
blm
(113,083 posts)change her words, or did you just misread it?
This seems like its being stretched and spun into a sin by Biden camp.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
beastie boy
(9,404 posts)But let me rephrase my comment, based on what you apparently object to:
"She stated that if Biden doesn't agree with her plan after it was "authenticated" by former Obama officials, SHE doesn't know where he is going. Not only does this statement make no sense as a defense against Biden's criticism, Warren made it personal In response to his comments about the plan."
Does it change anything?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
blm
(113,083 posts)You are attached to your characterization of what she said instead of just lettin her own words stand.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
beastie boy
(9,404 posts)Am I still entitled to my viewpoint? Biden, and many others, seem to share it. That's a lot of cherry picking consensus out there!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Skya Rhen
(2,701 posts)legislation. I will stick with the candidate who has always been loyal to the best President of my lifetime.
At least my candidate has never switched sides...
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,643 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Thekaspervote
(32,787 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cha
(297,528 posts)and Joe Biden who has always stood up for Obama.
Thank you, Skya! candle:
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
emmaverybo
(8,144 posts)with his loyal and accomplished VP.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
wnylib
(21,573 posts)She was a Young Republican before she became a Dem.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
peggysue2
(10,839 posts)Not a 40-something adult.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
wnylib
(21,573 posts)gradually while in college. In her senior year she left her activism for Republicans permanently after having supported Goldwater and then Rockefeller. She was drawn by her social values into the social activism movements of many young people in those days.
So, yes, you are right about the age difference between Hillary and Warren when they changed political affiliations.
I was merely ponting out that Warren is not the first candidate to have changed parties. Hillary was a political activist at a young age. Warren did not enter politics until later in life. Until then she was a registeted Republican and an Independent for a while. She supported Carter over Reagan in 1980.
I have nothing against Clinton. She was my senator and I voted for her in the Senate as well as for President.
Regarding Warren, I am more interested in who she is today. People change.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
I never post but this got to me. How ridiculous. Your own post states young republican. HRC has been a Democrat since college yet EW switched parties in her 40s. No fucking comparison... where was EW when aids was raging?! Where was she when I was afraid to hold my girlfriends hand in public even in liberal land Seattle in the early 1990s? Civil rights?! Gay rights?!? Where is the work?!!! EW did not have my back but other actual democrats did and I will throw my support their way rather than someone who switched sides during mid life crisis time. I want someone who uplifts our party and has been doing the work historically. EW has a place in o ur party but for someone who supported a republican agenda till midlife, they do not deserve the title of a democrat president.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Skya Rhen
(2,701 posts)support now? We know who all were in the trenches fighting for us, during that time. The nerve...
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
wnylib
(21,573 posts)a very young age and left the Republican Party for good in her senior year of college. I was happy to have her as my Senator and voted for her in her Senate runs as well as for President in 2016. I was fortunate to meet her during a Dem rally in NY and to speak with her briefly.
I was merely pointing out that Warren is not the first candidate to change parties. Yes it was much later in life than Hillary. Warren was not politically active in rights issues when younger arid was registered as a Republican and as an Independent.
You are right that Warren has not contributed anywhere near what Hillary has on civil and human rights issues.
I am interested in who Warren is today and what she might or might not contribute to the party and the nation today. But you are right that she does not have an established record of fighting for civil and human rights.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
OldRed2450
(710 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Tarheel_Dem
(31,237 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Maybe someone should have called her out for helping the other candidate, who was also criticizing Obama/Clinton for same thing.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
still_one
(92,372 posts)our candidates would refrain from comparing our candidates with republican like characteristics
To me that is counter productive, and hurts us all
Hillary did something like that by implying she and McCain had experience and President Obama had nothing.
For right now I dont think any of this is a show stopper for any of our candidates, but I sure wish they would not use republican comparisons toward each other. Arguing things like favoring insurance companies, etc is fair game, and should be debated, but lets not make republican like characteristics against each other
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
still_one
(92,372 posts)distortion and misrepresentation of that, that was the main culprit. At least implied from the polls before Comey and after Comeys nonsense
but with the point you are making we are pretty much on the same page
Right now we are in the primary, but once our nominee is chosen I will be very upset if criticism of our nominee happens from our fellow Democrats
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)win nomination. But, we aren't there yet.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
emmaverybo
(8,144 posts)pretty much pulled out all the stops campaigning against Obama. I didnt like it then and dont now approve of Warrens tack.
However, I think Hillary a very fine states person, politician, and top notch presidential candidate. She is a brilliant, strong woman. Just a force of nature. What she and Bill has to suffer! She earned her stripes the hard way. She has been tested, forged in fire.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
still_one
(92,372 posts)approach helps Warren
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
emmaverybo
(8,144 posts)help the party either. Surely she can do better.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Sloumeau
(2,657 posts)President Barack Obama had to scale back his desire for a Public Option and give us Romneycare in order to give millions of Americans a chance to get healthcare. Obama recognized the political realities of the moment. Joe Biden also realizes that the path to single-payer healthcare may be in stages. Just because Senator Warren favors a huge, expensive plan does not mean that everyone pushing for a smaller, more likely to pass plan is a Republican.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Thekaspervote
(32,787 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
TidalWave46
(2,061 posts)I love the guy but thats weak.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Skya Rhen
(2,701 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
TidalWave46
(2,061 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
emmaverybo
(8,144 posts)differences in how to go about achieving them. I am glad to see Biden vigorously defend his record, one of accomplishment on multiple fronts.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
crazytown
(7,277 posts)Yesterday, Elizabeth Warren suggested I was running in the wrong presidential primary because I believe in building on Obamacare not getting rid of it.
What Elizabeth Warren said was
If anyone wants to defend keeping those high profits for Insurance companies, and those high profits for Drug companies, and not making the top 1% pay a fair share in taxes, and not making corporations pay a fair share in taxes, then I think they are running in the wrong presidential primary.
How can this be spun as "because I believe in building on Obamacare not getting rid of it"?
Warren was taking issue with the Biden's campaign disputing her costings:
The cost projections that we have on Medicare were authenticated by President Obamas head of Medicare. Our revenue projections were authenticated by President Obamas labor economist. And the employer contribution is already part of the Affordable Care Act that President Obama put into the Affordable Care Act. So if Joe Biden doesnt like that, Im just not sure where hes going
This is sharp politics on VP Biden's part, which deserves an equally sharp response.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,643 posts)also, starting from scratch makes no sense. And I fear we will fail and lose both the ACA and any chance at MFA...then what. She shouldn't have said it. Biden is a national treasure.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,643 posts)administration who dedicated his entire life to the progressive movement. Can she defend her plan? Because I promise you, the GOP and Trump will come at her way harder than Biden in a general.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Thekaspervote
(32,787 posts)Just IMHO.. this is more about her not wanting to say. Shes gotten herself in a very tight spot
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,643 posts)general if we run on MFA.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Thekaspervote
(32,787 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
emmaverybo
(8,144 posts)being challenged only on M4All, so defending it without resorting to RW talking point will be good
practice.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
wnylib
(21,573 posts)Biden grabbed credit in the debate for Warren's achievement in her appointed position under Obams and then patronized her when she took back the credit. She restrained herself then but against Trump she wouldn't. We have already seen her take Trump on and I am sure she could do it again.
I was put off by both of those moves by Biden in the debate. He struck the first low blow so why does he complain when she fights back in the same manner?
But I hope the disagreements stay on issues in the future and not on personal attacks. Who would want to immitate the Republican debates of 2016?
Biden also needs to take a higher rosd than he has. And knock off the patronization toward a female candidate. Women are watching these debates and forming their views of Biden as they do.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
beastie boy
(9,404 posts)The cost projections that we have on Medicare were authenticated by President Obamas head of Medicare. Our revenue projections were authenticated by President Obamas labor economist. And the employer contribution is already part of the Affordable Care Act that President Obama put into the Affordable Care Act. So if Joe Biden doesnt like that, Im just not sure where hes going."
The implication of this is that, according to Warren, authenticating parts of her plan by former Obama officials constitutes agreement with her plan, which it does not, and by the virtue of this authentication, Biden is not permitted to disagree with it. And if he does, he, according to Warren, doesn't know where he is going. Not only does her statement fail to address Biden's criticism, she responded with insulting Biden personally.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
crazytown
(7,277 posts)The actual question was: "Q:Joe Biden called your plan 'mathematical gymnastics, Said it is impossible to pay for Medicare For All without middle class tax increases. What is your reply ..."
The obvious interpretation of her answer is .".. if he does not accept these numbers ... what is he saying"?
You can put the worst spin on her response if you want to.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
beastie boy
(9,404 posts)If you take her statement as a whole and don't try to parse it, it speaks for itself.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
crazytown
(7,277 posts)Biden's characterization is sharp and mendacious.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,643 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
OldRed2450
(710 posts)Look at what I have done, not what I say I will do.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
crazytown
(7,277 posts)Sad stuff.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
emulatorloo
(44,173 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
peggysue2
(10,839 posts)He's fighting two fights at once. And still standing.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Thekaspervote
(32,787 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LonePirate
(13,431 posts)Do you prefer the party to adopt moderate, centrist positions that don't change the status quo (like Biden) or do you prefer the party adopt strong, progressive positions that transform America (like Warren)?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
highplainsdem
(49,028 posts)https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/election/campaigns/article234890482.html
Taken as a whole, Bidens policy platform represents a significant shift from Clintons. On nearly every major issue, Biden has either exponentially increased the scope of what Clinton proposed or advocated for new ideas that most Democrats would have up until recently considered fringe.
-snip-
And whether voters view a candidate as liberal also depends on how they compare to their opponents. In most cases, Bidens agenda isnt as far to the left as Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warrens, and is roughly comparable to other opponents plans like Kamala Harris or Cory Booker.
Still, Bidens current set of policy prescriptions would likely be considered radical if they had been proposed in any previous Democratic presidential primary. Thats especially clear in comparison to Clintons 2016 platform.
-snip-
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Thekaspervote
(32,787 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LonePirate
(13,431 posts)Anybody who says Biden is the only candidate who can win is lying.
Look at what Americans 30 and under want for this country - profound change. Biden is the antithesis of that.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
dansolo
(5,376 posts)Do you know what doesn't change the status quo? Pushing a fantasy plan that has zero chance of ever passing instead of even accepting any sort of improvements, no matter how minor. The ACA was not perfect, but we can fix the broken parts and roll back the Republican sabotage so it can work like it was intended.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LonePirate
(13,431 posts)I guess affordable health care for all Americans is something you do not believe in if you're pushing fixes to the ACA. The ACA was a compromise with conservative Democrats and committee Republicans, who voted against the bill anyway. We can do better than the ACA.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
emulatorloo
(44,173 posts)difference is a sad rhetorical device. You are surrounded by left liberals and progressives here.
All DUers want affordable/universal healthcare.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
LonePirate
(13,431 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Last edited Sun Nov 3, 2019, 09:30 AM - Edit history (1)
If Public Option is anywhere near as good as we think, people will gravitate to it much quicker than Warren can implement, "Medicare Whether You Want It or Not."
Plus, I think MFA is a general election loser, putting us farther out.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LonePirate
(13,431 posts)People hate change in the health care system but a dramatic overhaul is needed in the health care system in America. That scares people so they will say or do anything to prevent it from happening.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
emulatorloo
(44,173 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
LonePirate
(13,431 posts)When you have Dems and DUers screaming about higher taxes from MFA, while deliberating ignoring the elimination of current premiums, deductibles, co-pays, prescription costs and other out of pocket expenses - a tactic often employed by Republicans - then yes, I would consider those to be Republican excuses for not implementing MFA.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)the health plan. Right or wrong, people need to feel they have a choice.
I bet within 5 years 80% will be enrolled in PO. Then we can say, though chit this is what you'll have, like it or not.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LonePirate
(13,431 posts)Ignoring the facts and industry experts never turns out well for anyone.
The public option is not the ACA and it is not MFA. It is a compromise between the two. I simply prefer moving directly to the end game solution instead of taking a half-step because people need to be coddled and think having a choice between insurance providers is their best solution, when eliminating insurance providers altogether is by far the better solution.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
emulatorloo
(44,173 posts)views on how to get there isnt productive.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
LonePirate
(13,431 posts)Those people, by their beliefs are fine with Americans not having health care and thus not being able to live. That's essentially the argument you are making.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
emulatorloo
(44,173 posts)Because you did that, I dont see any point in continuing this conversation.
That being said, I hope you have a great Saturday evening and a good rest of the weekend.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
LonePirate
(13,431 posts)That's certainly an interesting tactic to utilize.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
emulatorloo
(44,173 posts)Its been an interesting chat. It isnt productive any more. Bye and good night.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
emulatorloo
(44,173 posts)Elsewise moderates like Lieberman wouldnt have killed the public option.
Trump and Republicans are the status quo now, and they have zero interest in universal healthcare.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Cha
(297,528 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Thekaspervote
(32,787 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BeyondGeography
(39,377 posts)Meantime, Buttigieg is eating his lunch in Iowa and threatening to eclipse him in NH.
Someone and his team need to wake up.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Tumbulu
(6,292 posts)Now I am leaning towards voting Biden. I am aghast at her approach to this difference in opinion.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
blm
(113,083 posts)From the actual transcript...
What Elizabeth Warren said was
If anyone wants to defend keeping those high profits for Insurance companies, and those high profits for Drug companies, and not making the top 1% pay a fair share in taxes, and not making corporations pay a fair share in taxes, then I think they are running in the wrong presidential primary.
Warren was taking issue with the Biden's campaign disputing her costings:
The cost projections that we have on Medicare were authenticated by President Obamas head of Medicare. Our revenue projections were authenticated by President Obamas labor economist. And the employer contribution is already part of the Affordable Care Act that President Obama put into the Affordable Care Act. So if Joe Biden doesnt like that, Im just not sure where hes going.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
YOHABLO
(7,358 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Skya Rhen
(2,701 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
tonedevil
(3,022 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Gothmog
(145,489 posts)Link to tweet
If my opponents want to have a debate on what they've done to truly implement progressive, meaningful change in our country not what theyre planning, not what theyre proposing, but what theyve accomplished I welcome it, he added, swiping at Warrens Ive got a plan for that mantra. But to hurl insults because we dont share the same approach for the best way to get to the same goal well that is something I would expect in the other primary. .
Biden slammed Warrens Medicare for All plan Friday, saying that the plan's proposed $9 trillion tax on employers would be passed off to companies employees.
For months, Elizabeth Warren has refused to say if her health care plan would raise taxes on the middle class, and now we know why: because it does, said Biden deputy campaign manager Kate Bedingfield. Senator Warren would place a new tax of nearly $9 trillion that will fall on American workers.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(145,489 posts)I stand with the leader of our Party, Speaker Pelosi
Link to tweet
Remember November, she added. You must win the Electoral College.
While the California Democrat declined to endorse any candidate in the primary race, she unloaded on progressive policies, saying they fail to make inroads with swing voters who backed President Trump in 2016.
As a left-wing San Francisco liberal I can say to these people: What are you thinking? Pelosi said. You can ask the left theyre unhappy with me for not being a socialist.
The speaker specifically singled out Medicare for All as an example of a policy that may be beyond the pale for moderate voters the party will need to win back next year.
Protect the Affordable Care Act I think thats the path to health care for all Americans. Medicare For All has its complications, Pelosi said, adding that the Affordable Care Act is a better benefit than Medicare.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Scurrilous
(38,687 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden