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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!
 

Prosper

(761 posts)
Mon Nov 4, 2019, 01:35 PM Nov 2019

What is who going to say about this after the convention??

The total costs for a typical family of four insured by the most common health plan offered by employers will average $28,166 this year, according to the annual Milliman Medical Index.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/676046002

Over $8000 for deductible.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
12 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
 

left-of-center2012

(34,195 posts)
1. "What is who going to say ..."
Mon Nov 4, 2019, 01:41 PM
Nov 2019
Huh ?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

wasupaloopa

(4,516 posts)
2. Employer pays most of insurance costs. Employees paid the remaining 29 percent or $5,689 a year.
Mon Nov 4, 2019, 01:44 PM
Nov 2019

Please include all the facts.

In 2018, the average company-provided health insurance policy totaled $6,896 a year for single coverage. On average, employers paid 82 percent of the premium, or $5,655 a year. Employees paid the remaining 18 percent, or $1,241 a year.

For family coverage, the average policy totaled $19,616 a year with employers contributing, on average, 71 percent, or $13,927. Employees paid the remaining 29 percent or $5,689 a year.

https://www.peoplekeep.com/blog/what-percent-of-health-insurance-is-paid-by-employers

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Prosper

(761 posts)
5. According to a 2017 Kaiser Family Foundation (KFF)
Mon Nov 4, 2019, 01:57 PM
Nov 2019

survey, almost half (49%) of people have employer-sponsored insurance.

Health coverage is limited. People are underinsured and not insured.

And: The Harvard study found that people without health insurance had a 40 percent higher risk of death than those with private health insurance — as a result of being unable to obtain necessary medical care.Sep 18, 2009
Harvard University › news › 2009/09
Harvard Medical Study Links Lack of Insurance to 45,000 U.S. Deaths a Year – Harvard Gazette

If Trump is not in jail he wil be promising 100% health insurance coverage with nobody excluded because they can’t pay.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

vsrazdem

(2,177 posts)
6. Most employers I have ever worked for only paid for a portion of the employees coverage, and did not
Mon Nov 4, 2019, 02:06 PM
Nov 2019

cover any premium costs for family members, so these employees who work for companies that pay family coverage are pretty lucky.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

The Mouth

(3,164 posts)
3. The question is-
Mon Nov 4, 2019, 01:46 PM
Nov 2019

If this plan is eliminated, and taxes raised an equivalent amount- or even half of enough to pay for it - will the amount the employer is no longer paying end up in salary to cover the increased taxes?

Say that is me, my employer was paying $28K for my health benefits.

Enter MFA.

My taxes *HAVE* to go up almost that amount- pretending otherwise is dishonest pie in the sky; ain't nothing free.

Now- I'm paying- to be VERY generous since we supposedly get a HUGE economy of scale benefit with everyone covered- say $14K more in taxes for my MFA.

Do you really think my employer is NOT going to take the $28K and just roll it into executive bonuses and/or stockholder dividends?

Without *IRONCLAD* assurances that I'll take home at least close to as much $$$ as my taxes will *HAVE* to go up, I'm screwed.

And that is granting that MFA costs half as much for coverage as good.

Without a solid answer to the above scenario, quantifiable in terms the average working stiff can understand, believe, and trust, it is a hard sell.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

sop

(10,253 posts)
8. Taxpayers already pay 100% of employer-provided health insurance costs
Mon Nov 4, 2019, 02:28 PM
Nov 2019

"Generally speaking, any expenses an employer incurs related to health insurance (for employees or for dependents) are 100% tax-deductible as ordinary business expenses, on both state and federal income taxes."

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

The Mouth

(3,164 posts)
10. That doesn't address the fact
Mon Nov 4, 2019, 03:07 PM
Nov 2019

that one possible outcome is that I (the person represented in the OP) now have higher taxes, but not higher pay.
That. Can't. Happen. Period.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

sop

(10,253 posts)
11. Employers don't pay for employees' health insurance costs, taxpayers subsidize these benefits
Mon Nov 4, 2019, 03:50 PM
Nov 2019

All of us pay higher taxes to make up for the lost tax revenue from these health insurance deductions. If employers aren't paying their employees more, it's not due to the cost of health insurance.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

wasupaloopa

(4,516 posts)
4. A few more facts
Mon Nov 4, 2019, 01:52 PM
Nov 2019

The following information is from:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_insurance_coverage_in_the_United_States

During 2016, the U.S. population overall was approximately 325 million

During the year 2016, 91.2% of Americans had health insurance coverage.

53 million people 65 years of age and over, covered by the federal Medicare program.

Approximately 15 million military personnel received coverage through the Veteran's Administration and Military Health System.

people under age 65 either obtained their coverage from employer-based (155 million) or non-employer based (90 million) sources, or were uninsured (27 million).

the US remains the sole industrialized nation in the world without universal health care coverage

Prohibitively high cost is the primary reason Americans give for problems accessing health care.

Multiple surveys indicate the number of uninsured fell between 2013-2016 due to expanded Medicaid eligibility and health insurance exchanges established due to the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, also known as the "ACA" or "Obamacare".

According to the United States Census Bureau, in 2012 there were 45.6 million people in the US (14.8% of the under-65 population) who were without health insurance. Following the implementation of major ACA provisions in 2013, this figure fell by 18.3 million or 40%, to 27.3 million by 2016 or 8.6% of the under-65 population.

The Census Bureau reported that the number of uninsured persons rose from 27.3 million in 2016 to 28.0 million in 2017. The uninsured rate rose from 8.6% in 2016 to 8.7% in 2017.[8] This was the first increase in the number and rate of uninsured since 2010. Further, the Commonwealth Fund estimated in May 2018 that the number of uninsured increased by 4 million from early 2016 to early 2018. The rate of those uninsured increased from 12.7% in 2016 to 15.5% under their methodology.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

KPN

(15,650 posts)
7. The reality of the employer-provided health coverage everyone loves (from the linked
Mon Nov 4, 2019, 02:07 PM
Nov 2019

article):

Last year, the premium for the most popular health plan offered by employers — what is known as a preferred provider organization — for family coverage was $19,481, according to the annual survey done by the Kaiser Family Foundation and the Health Research & Educational Trust. Employers paid $13,430 and employees paid $6,050 of the premium on average.

Most people give little thought to their employer’s share of the cost. “They only see the portion of these costs that gets listed on their pay stubs,” Buntin said.

Yet the cost of providing health benefits is part of their total compensation — and, to an employer, no different than wages, payroll taxes and other costs of employing someone. “That gets lost on most people,” Buntin said. “It’s one of the things that I work on when I teach economics to students.”

One of the reasons that workers have seen smaller raises is a larger share of their total compensation goes toward providing health benefits. For employers, the cost of providing health benefits is a dilemma. They want to control costs. But they also want to offer attractive benefits. “It’s push-pull,” Weltz of Milliman said.


Any realistic and sustainable health care solution must effectively address the profit motive within the industry overall. It's about the profit taking.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Prosper

(761 posts)
9. The absolute biggest remiss by all the candidates is
Mon Nov 4, 2019, 03:02 PM
Nov 2019

not citing wages going up under any Democratic and consequently the increase in IRS revenue. People are already paying and exorbitant amount of money for limited health care. Transferring healthcare to the government has to make for cheaper better health care with a net margin of zero for the population. That is considering prosperity under Democratic rule. That has to be the explanation selling single payer/Medicare for all. The silent bonus is transaction fees on non interested trading. That will lead money away from zero velocity to increased velocity from making products to sell.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

OldRed2450

(710 posts)
12. We all know health insurance is expensive
Mon Nov 4, 2019, 04:38 PM
Nov 2019

We all know many people can not afford any coverage at all. I just do not believe Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren have a realistic plan to fix it.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
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