Democratic Primaries

highplainsdem

(49,034 posts) Sun Dec 1, 2019, 09:12 PM Dec 2019

Historian Doris Kearns Goodwin on what she dislikes about the current primary system

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/doris-kearns-goodwin-says-craziness-of-the-dem-primary-makes-her-wish-for-old-convention-system/

“The terrible thing I have to admit, when I look at the craziness of the primaries, I wish we could go back to the old convention system,” Goodwin said on Fareed Zakaria GPS Sunday. “I mean just think about it, we wouldn’t start the election until the summer when the conventions would choose somebody and on Labor Day it begins and it would be over in November and we’d have lives in between the elections.”

Goodwin went on to plainly state the current process is much more democratic and it would not change back, but noted there were problems with what primary elections accentuate for candidates.

“How are we judging the candidates who are in these primaries? How they do in a debate, who zings who? That’s nuts!” she said. “They aren’t going to be doing that as a president. … We should be looking at what kind of leaders they’ve been in the past. They’ve all come from somewhere: governors, mayors, senators, congressmen. We don’t need a magazine article. We should be talking constantly, what kind of team do they have? Do they have humility, empathy, resilience? Are they accessible? What’s their ambition like? We should know these things, it’s what we should be asking them.”

Video at the link.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

24 replies

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Highlight:

Historian Doris Kearns Goodwin on what she dislikes about the current primary system (Original Post) highplainsdem Dec 2019 OP

She is an all time favorite. Doormouse Dec 2019 #1

Agree Ohiogal Dec 2019 #3

'*what kind of leaders they've been in the past, elleng Dec 2019 #2

Thing is---the Conventions zentrum Dec 2019 #4

True...but think the larger point is starting so early. Perhaps Laura PourMeADrink Dec 2019 #18

Yes. That's a huge problem. zentrum Dec 2019 #23

Sharp and wise. Right. They won't be negotiating with world leaders through debate stage emmaverybo Dec 2019 #5

i love-- "WAIT UNTIL NEXT YEAR." pangaia Dec 2019 #6

Plagiarism row topples Pulitzer judge JoeOtterbein Dec 2019 #7

Phony snob?????? Really? flying_wahini Dec 2019 #8

Or, who the hell cares that she doesn't like our system? JoeOtterbein Dec 2019 #9

Yeah, it's really shitty when an outsider tries to tell Democrats how to run the party. NurseJackie Dec 2019 #11

LOL! I was thinking the same thing, though not about DKG, who I believe is a Democrat. highplainsdem Dec 2019 #12

Sometimes those on the outside can see more clearly Laura PourMeADrink Dec 2019 #19

If you had read the full article, you might have noticed that it's not that she doesn't... TreasonousBastard Dec 2019 #21

And after that she won the 2005 Lincoln Prize for the best book on the Civil War, and that book highplainsdem Dec 2019 #13

This message was self-deleted by its author defacto7 Dec 2019 #17

I agree... zingers and one-liners are not a way to choose a leader. NurseJackie Dec 2019 #10

Me either. Why I won't forget Buttigieg's condescending Laura PourMeADrink Dec 2019 #20

I think in a nut shell: we need shorten the primary process. YOHABLO Dec 2019 #14

I was actually Rebl2 Dec 2019 #15

This message was self-deleted by its author INdemo Dec 2019 #16

Is what we really need a shorter primary where the public has less hughee99 Dec 2019 #22

The bottom line to me is the process is too god damn long BannonsLiver Dec 2019 #24

Doormouse

(20 posts)

1. She is an all time favorite.

Reply to highplainsdem (Original post)

Sun Dec 1, 2019, 09:18 PM

Dec 2019

Superb Historian and wonderful writer.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

Ohiogal

(32,057 posts)

3. Agree

Reply to Doormouse (Reply #1)

Sun Dec 1, 2019, 09:24 PM

Dec 2019

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

elleng

(131,100 posts)

2. '*what kind of leaders they've been in the past,

Reply to highplainsdem (Original post)

Sun Dec 1, 2019, 09:21 PM

Dec 2019

what kind of team do they have? Do they have humility, empathy, resilience? Are they accessible? What’s their ambition like?'

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

zentrum

(9,865 posts)

4. Thing is---the Conventions

Reply to highplainsdem (Original post)

Sun Dec 1, 2019, 09:26 PM

Dec 2019

...were often problematic too. With inside deals and all the rest of of what you can predict from politicians wheeling and dealing.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)

18. True...but think the larger point is starting so early. Perhaps

Reply to zentrum (Reply #4)

Mon Dec 2, 2019, 12:16 AM

Dec 2019

The repukes did too last time.

Who's idea was it anyway? DNC?
It seems absurd that someone coming out one year before the election is said to be too late. It's not like they are even talking about the monster in the room which was totally shocking.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

zentrum

(9,865 posts)

23. Yes. That's a huge problem.

Reply to Laura PourMeADrink (Reply #18)

Mon Dec 2, 2019, 01:14 PM

Dec 2019

Lots and lots of Citizen's United money involved.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

emmaverybo

(8,144 posts)

5. Sharp and wise. Right. They won't be negotiating with world leaders through debate stage

Reply to highplainsdem (Original post)

Sun Dec 1, 2019, 10:27 PM

Dec 2019

zingers. We need to look at their leadership history to gauge their leadership potential. I know a few I’d eliminate on the basis of having no leadership history or a poor one.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

pangaia

(24,324 posts)

6. i love-- "WAIT UNTIL NEXT YEAR."

Reply to highplainsdem (Original post)

Sun Dec 1, 2019, 10:34 PM

Dec 2019

Her early childhood growing up with the Brooklyn Dodgers..

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

JoeOtterbein

(7,702 posts)

7. Plagiarism row topples Pulitzer judge

Reply to highplainsdem (Original post)

Sun Dec 1, 2019, 10:40 PM

Dec 2019

]The US historian Doris Goodwin admits to borrowing passages from other authors, but critics reject her claim that it was all an accident

Doris Kearns Goodwin, one of America's best-known popular historians, stepped down as a Pulitzer prize judge yesterday in the face of mounting allegations that she had lifted many passages in her acclaimed work from other writers' books.
Goodwin, a bestselling historian of the American presidency who won the Pulitzer herself in 1995 for a book about the Roosevelts, explained in a letter to the prize-giving board that "because I am so distracted by the media focus on my work, I do not feel capable of giving the considerable time needed to make the proper judgments".

Suspicions were first raised in January, when Goodwin, formerly an aide to Lyndon Johnson, acknowledged that passages in her 1987 book, The Fitzgeralds and the Kennedys, had been borrowed - accidentally, she insisted - from three other works. But her swift admission, in response to an article in the Washington conservative magazine the Weekly Standard, did nothing to halt the progress of the latest plagiarism scandal to convulse American history publishing.

[link:https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/mar/06/internationaleducationnews.humanities|

snip

more about the phony snob at link

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

flying_wahini

(6,646 posts)

8. Phony snob?????? Really?

Reply to JoeOtterbein (Reply #7)

Sun Dec 1, 2019, 10:53 PM

Dec 2019

Care to elaborate?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

JoeOtterbein

(7,702 posts)

9. Or, who the hell cares that she doesn't like our system?

Reply to flying_wahini (Reply #8)

Sun Dec 1, 2019, 11:00 PM

Dec 2019

We Dems are in charge of our issues. Not someone who literally turns her nose up at us every time she speaks.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)

11. Yeah, it's really shitty when an outsider tries to tell Democrats how to run the party.

Reply to JoeOtterbein (Reply #9)

Sun Dec 1, 2019, 11:08 PM

Dec 2019

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

highplainsdem

(49,034 posts)

12. LOL! I was thinking the same thing, though not about DKG, who I believe is a Democrat.

Reply to NurseJackie (Reply #11)

Sun Dec 1, 2019, 11:16 PM

Dec 2019

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)

19. Sometimes those on the outside can see more clearly

Reply to NurseJackie (Reply #11)

Mon Dec 2, 2019, 12:25 AM

Dec 2019

where improvements need to be made to a party, or to any system, for that matter.

As opposed to the inside where it is expected that everyone says "everything is perfect" and all the leaders must be referred to as infallible gods.

The trick to succeeding is to actually listen, and to self-assess.
Keep what works, fix/change what doesn't.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

TreasonousBastard

(43,049 posts)

21. If you had read the full article, you might have noticed that it's not that she doesn't...

Reply to JoeOtterbein (Reply #9)

Mon Dec 2, 2019, 01:50 AM

Dec 2019

like our system-- she notices its imperfections.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

highplainsdem

(49,034 posts)

13. And after that she won the 2005 Lincoln Prize for the best book on the Civil War, and that book

Reply to JoeOtterbein (Reply #7)

Sun Dec 1, 2019, 11:21 PM

Dec 2019

(Team of Rivals) also won the American History Book Prize from the New York Historical Society.

And she won the Andrew Carnegie Medal for Excellence in Nonfiction (an award administered by the American Library Association) for her book on Teddy Roosevelt, The Bully Pulpit.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

Response to JoeOtterbein (Reply #7)

defacto7 This message was self-deleted by its author.

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)

10. I agree... zingers and one-liners are not a way to choose a leader.

Reply to highplainsdem (Original post)

Sun Dec 1, 2019, 11:07 PM

Dec 2019

Shouting, finger-wagging, gesticulations, scolding, insulting, smearing, attacking, belittling... that's also not the type of things that I look for in a leader.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

Laura PourMeADrink

(42,770 posts)

20. Me either. Why I won't forget Buttigieg's condescending

Reply to NurseJackie (Reply #10)

Mon Dec 2, 2019, 12:28 AM

Dec 2019

mean streak swipes at Beto.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

YOHABLO

(7,358 posts)

14. I think in a nut shell: we need shorten the primary process.

Reply to highplainsdem (Original post)

Sun Dec 1, 2019, 11:22 PM

Dec 2019

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

Rebl2

(13,551 posts)

15. I was actually

Reply to highplainsdem (Original post)

Sun Dec 1, 2019, 11:24 PM

Dec 2019

thinking the same thing yesterday. I would start a little sooner, maybe March of the year of election. Debates would also start in March and the primaries would all be the same day in late May or early June. Enough of this primaries over several months!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

Response to highplainsdem (Original post)

INdemo This message was self-deleted by its author.

hughee99

(16,113 posts)

22. Is what we really need a shorter primary where the public has less

Reply to highplainsdem (Original post)

Mon Dec 2, 2019, 11:06 AM

Dec 2019

Time to see and hear the potential candidates? It seems like the “old system” was setup to benefit the person with the most insider connections. I’m not saying the current system is perfect, but I think it’s better than the old one.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

BannonsLiver

(16,448 posts)

24. The bottom line to me is the process is too god damn long

Reply to highplainsdem (Original post)

Mon Dec 2, 2019, 01:38 PM

Dec 2019

We should be talking about these campaigns in terms of months, not years. Our system is kind of an embarrassment really. Not just the nominating process, but the whole thing. The multi-year campaigns, the electoral college, all of it.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

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