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JoeOtterbein

(7,702 posts)
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 10:22 AM Dec 2019

Bernie splits from Warren with embrace of far-left foreign leaders

(Disclaimer: the article is co-written by this DU poster's daughter)

[link:https://www.politico.com/news/2019/12/03/bernie-sanders-elizabeth-warren-foreign-policy-074193|

Sanders is trying to establish himself as the most progressive presidential candidate on not just economic issues — but foreign policy, too.

By ALEX THOMPSON and HOLLY OTTERBEIN 12/03/2019 05:04 AM EST

Bernie Sanders' revolution has gone global.

As the Vermont senator battles Elizabeth Warren for the left wing of the Democratic Party, he's increasingly tried to find an edge on foreign policy. Sanders has portrayed his candidacy as one part of a worldwide worker-led movement, praised controversial leftist leaders across the globe, and tried to articulate a foreign policy further afield of the establishment than Warren's.

Sanders’ foreign policy views are a clear mark of distinction from Warren in a race in which their domestic agendas are viewed as very similar. Left-wing leaders around the world see an ally in Sanders — Brazil's Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva recently thanked him for his “solidarity” and Bolivia's ousted Evo Morales called him “hermano Bernie Sanders” — but have not publicly embraced Warren in the same way.

“Bernie is the only candidate who has a comprehensive foreign policy vision to stand up to the growing movement of anti-democratic authoritarianism worldwide and find solidarity with working people around the world who, in many cases, share common needs,” said Josh Orton, Sanders' national policy director. Another Sanders aide referred to his approach to international affairs as a “global struggle.”

snip


more at link
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
41 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Bernie splits from Warren with embrace of far-left foreign leaders (Original Post) JoeOtterbein Dec 2019 OP
Do Sanders supporters think this is good? OKNancy Dec 2019 #1
To me the question is if he is right or wrong. JoeOtterbein Dec 2019 #2
Some of the left wing leaders Bernie embraced are pretty shady characters by any objective measure. beastie boy Dec 2019 #6
It's always right to take up for labor. JoeOtterbein Dec 2019 #7
I am not questioning Bernie's support for labor. I am questioning his embrace of shady beastie boy Dec 2019 #8
How can I tell what you mean by "shady," in any case? JoeOtterbein Dec 2019 #9
Let me give you a couple of names beastie boy Dec 2019 #16
Did you object when Obama vetoed a bill that will allow JonLP24 Dec 2019 #12
Yes and yes. But what does Obama have to do with this thread? beastie boy Dec 2019 #17
The hypocrisy JonLP24 Dec 2019 #18
Are you addressing this to me? beastie boy Dec 2019 #20
I don't mean from you JonLP24 Dec 2019 #24
Obama objected because he was worried about Iraqi's suing us OldRed2450 Dec 2019 #36
His Veto was rightfully overturned JonLP24 Dec 2019 #39
The US allies with dictators like Saudi Arabia JonLP24 Dec 2019 #10
And that makes Bernie's embrace of certain far-left leaders OK? beastie boy Dec 2019 #21
I think the racial backlash in Bolivia is worse than Evo Morales JonLP24 Dec 2019 #25
You are changing the subject again. beastie boy Dec 2019 #26
I see more outrage over this than anything else JonLP24 Dec 2019 #29
Honduras nt awesomerwb1 Dec 2019 #27
Bernie is embracing that democratic process take place in Bolivia, Uncle Joe Dec 2019 #31
You should blame the media... or polling methodology... or even name recognition LanternWaste Dec 2019 #32
Your post has nothing to do with the subject. n/t Uncle Joe Dec 2019 #34
You're finally beginning to understand the irony, yes? LanternWaste Dec 2019 #41
This is the second justification you have offered for Sanders positions in this area. TidalWave46 Dec 2019 #33
I stated repeatedly the racial backlash against the Indigenous population JonLP24 Dec 2019 #38
"Bernie is the only candidate who has a comprehensive foreign policy vision to stand up.... George II Dec 2019 #3
You see it. I see it. Everyone with half a brain sees it. It ought not need to be spelled out... NurseJackie Dec 2019 #13
What is happening in Bolivia is worse JonLP24 Dec 2019 #14
See 21 beastie boy Dec 2019 #22
Glad to hear that Warren shuns the dictators who Bernie embraces. tritsofme Dec 2019 #4
That's a point in her column and a feather in her cap. NurseJackie Dec 2019 #11
Absolutely puzzling awesomerwb1 Dec 2019 #5
he's going all-in on young people Highlander19 Dec 2019 #15
With AOC and the ghost of Che on your side NoPasaran Dec 2019 #19
Since when is embracing far-left autocrats considered "progressive?" The Valley Below Dec 2019 #23
GMTA. I was just about to post the very same question. The Velveteen Ocelot Dec 2019 #28
Good reporting by Holly Otterbein, thanks for posting emulatorloo Dec 2019 #30
This message was self-deleted by its author TidalWave46 Dec 2019 #35
Bernie is giving people fodder OldRed2450 Dec 2019 #37
And Sanders believes this embrace of socialists around the world is helpful? peggysue2 Dec 2019 #40
 

OKNancy

(41,832 posts)
1. Do Sanders supporters think this is good?
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 10:47 AM
Dec 2019

Not philosophically but as far as a general election position.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

JoeOtterbein

(7,702 posts)
2. To me the question is if he is right or wrong.
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 10:50 AM
Dec 2019

No poll will ever tell you the correct answer to that question.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

beastie boy

(9,363 posts)
6. Some of the left wing leaders Bernie embraced are pretty shady characters by any objective measure.
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 11:20 AM
Dec 2019

Do you think this is right? Or wrong?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

JoeOtterbein

(7,702 posts)
7. It's always right to take up for labor.
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 11:26 AM
Dec 2019

I'm pro worker.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

beastie boy

(9,363 posts)
8. I am not questioning Bernie's support for labor. I am questioning his embrace of shady
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 11:38 AM
Dec 2019

left-wing leaders. Two completely separate issues.

So, do you consider Bernie's support of some shady left-wing leaders right or wrong?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

JoeOtterbein

(7,702 posts)
9. How can I tell what you mean by "shady," in any case?
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 11:46 AM
Dec 2019

To be honest, I'm not that smart!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

beastie boy

(9,363 posts)
16. Let me give you a couple of names
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 12:14 PM
Dec 2019

Lula Da Silva, who was convicted of crimes and corruption in his country, and Evo Morales, who was found by OAS, after an election audit he himself requested, to have run a rigged election.

You are welcome to argue that the above described left wing leaders and their actions described above are not shady, or that Bernie didn't embrace them, or that his embrace of these two particular left wing leaders is good. Just don't change the subject.

I am sure you are smart enough to do that.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
12. Did you object when Obama vetoed a bill that will allow
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 12:02 PM
Dec 2019

9/11 victims families sue Saudi Arabia while also selling them weapons? Did you know women's rights in Saudi Arabia is among the worst in the world?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

beastie boy

(9,363 posts)
17. Yes and yes. But what does Obama have to do with this thread?
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 12:16 PM
Dec 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
18. The hypocrisy
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 12:19 PM
Dec 2019

People don't have a problem with allying with Saudi Arabia or opening up a foundation and receiving donations from the House of Saud or King of Morocco but people get up an arms when a Latin left wing leader has positive views. The racial backlash in Bolivia after Morales is ugly.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

beastie boy

(9,363 posts)
20. Are you addressing this to me?
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 12:27 PM
Dec 2019

I just said I objected to Obama's Saudi Arabia policy. How is that hypocritical?

What I find hypocritical is responses like "But... Obama!" in a thread that has to do with Bernie's embrace of certain far-left leaders.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
24. I don't mean from you
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 12:36 PM
Dec 2019

I mean in general. Every President since FDR has allied with Saudi Arabia & sold them weapons.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

OldRed2450

(710 posts)
36. Obama objected because he was worried about Iraqi's suing us
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 02:23 PM
Dec 2019

and he said so.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
39. His Veto was rightfully overturned
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 02:33 PM
Dec 2019

One reason why I like Chuck Schumer because he did the right thing.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
10. The US allies with dictators like Saudi Arabia
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 11:59 AM
Dec 2019

The US has a long history of backing right wing dictators.

Im not interested in coups of left wing leaders.

The House of Saud is way we worse and every President has allied with them since FDR.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

beastie boy

(9,363 posts)
21. And that makes Bernie's embrace of certain far-left leaders OK?
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 12:28 PM
Dec 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
25. I think the racial backlash in Bolivia is worse than Evo Morales
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 12:39 PM
Dec 2019

Im against things like Coups in Honduras which is why I support Bernie.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

beastie boy

(9,363 posts)
26. You are changing the subject again.
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 12:46 PM
Dec 2019

Ok... How 'bout them Yankees?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
29. I see more outrage over this than anything else
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 12:51 PM
Dec 2019

I have a much bigger problem with The House of Saud than any left wing Latin America leader.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Uncle Joe

(58,364 posts)
31. Bernie is embracing that democratic process take place in Bolivia,
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 02:04 PM
Dec 2019

not military coups which for over a hundred years the U.S. has supported in Central or South America when their democratically elected leaders' policies differ from U.S. corporate interests.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
32. You should blame the media... or polling methodology... or even name recognition
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 02:07 PM
Dec 2019

Though that last excuse is pretty used up and without merit, so are the others.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Uncle Joe

(58,364 posts)
34. Your post has nothing to do with the subject. n/t
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 02:12 PM
Dec 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
41. You're finally beginning to understand the irony, yes?
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 02:52 PM
Dec 2019

Now... apply that same sentiment of yours to the excuses used consistently to cover-up the abject failure of a candidate's campaign.

Then (maybe...) the eyes, with renewed clarity, will open.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

TidalWave46

(2,061 posts)
33. This is the second justification you have offered for Sanders positions in this area.
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 02:10 PM
Dec 2019

His positions in this area suck but they don't suck worse than some others isn't a very good argument.

I don't get people who go so far as to not take issue with a candidate. You are clearly saying that yes, some of Sanders positions in this area are really bad, but not as bad as some people.

Zero other reason to bring Obama or anyone else into it as a way of deflection from the topic.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
38. I stated repeatedly the racial backlash against the Indigenous population
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 02:31 PM
Dec 2019

Is worse than Evo Morales.

There is not zero reason because I'm actually upset with Saudi Arabia and have been for a long time. I'm not interested in making an enemy out of Iran either because we are the ones that overthrew their elected leader after he kicked out BP. Sorry I can't work up enough outrage for Morales or any left wing Latin America leader.

Why I support Bernie




His opposition to Saudi Arabia is more important to me than something he said positive about a left wing Latin America leader.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

George II

(67,782 posts)
3. "Bernie is the only candidate who has a comprehensive foreign policy vision to stand up....
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 10:51 AM
Dec 2019

“...to the growing movement of anti-democratic authoritarianism worldwide"

And yet he strongly supported Evo Morales who unilaterally violated Bolivian law and served a third term as President and stacked the Bolivian Supreme Court so he could get a ruling in his favor.

That's not "anti-democratic authoritarianism"?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
13. You see it. I see it. Everyone with half a brain sees it. It ought not need to be spelled out...
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 12:03 PM
Dec 2019

You see it. I see it. Everyone with half a brain sees it. It ought not need to be spelled out and spoon-fed like that.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
14. What is happening in Bolivia is worse
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 12:12 PM
Dec 2019

Ethnic Rifts in Bolivia Burst Into View With Fall of Evo Morales

As the country’s first Indigenous president has tumbled from power, Indigenous Bolivians fear the loss of their hard-won political gains, and say a racial backlash has begun.

COCHABAMBA, Bolivia — In the days since the ouster of Evo Morales, Bolivia’s first Indigenous president, deep ethnic tensions that have long divided the country have erupted, complicating efforts to move Bolivia out of political crisis.

Mr. Morales, a champion of the Indigenous, has now been replaced by an acting president of European descent, and resentments have surfaced. Police officers have ripped the Indigenous insignia off their uniforms. Protesters have burned the Indigenous flag. And the acting president, who posted tweets many consider racist, initially appointed a cabinet without a single Indigenous member.

“We feel threatened,” said Juan Acume, a farmer from the Quechua, an Indigenous group, near a protest barricade of earth mounds and tree trunks across Bolivia’s main highway on Wednesday night. “They don’t represent us; they reject us, the Indigenous.”

Mr. Morales’s nearly 14 years in power represented a breakthrough for the three-quarters of Bolivians who are either of Indigenous descent or identify as members of Indigenous groups. But he also reinforced his base of support with explicit appeals to racial identity that many Bolivians found threatening and polarizing. Now that Mr. Morales has taken asylum in Mexico, his supporters fear the loss of their hard-won political and economic gains.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2019/11/15/world/americas/morales-bolivia-Indigenous-racism.amp.html

As bad as Evo Morales is right wing racism is worse.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

tritsofme

(17,379 posts)
4. Glad to hear that Warren shuns the dictators who Bernie embraces.
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 10:55 AM
Dec 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
11. That's a point in her column and a feather in her cap.
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 12:02 PM
Dec 2019

It's unclear to me why this should be a point of pride for BS, or for his faithful followers.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

awesomerwb1

(4,268 posts)
5. Absolutely puzzling
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 11:11 AM
Dec 2019

that this could be perceived as positive for anyone running for office in the US. Well, maybe except for Che Guevara t-shirt wearing 19 year olds who claim communism is the way to go.

What's next? Sanders seeking Maduro's endorsement? Campaigning with Nicaragua's Ortega?

Bizarre.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Highlander19

(3 posts)
15. he's going all-in on young people
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 12:13 PM
Dec 2019
Che Guevara t-shirt wearing 19 year olds who claim communism is the way to go


Bernie's betting on young people as his power base. AOC is his inspiration and his protege.

But he'd tell you he's not for communism.... instead he's for Democratic Socialism.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

NoPasaran

(17,291 posts)
19. With AOC and the ghost of Che on your side
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 12:23 PM
Dec 2019

What could possibly go wrong?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
23. Since when is embracing far-left autocrats considered "progressive?"
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 12:30 PM
Dec 2019

Morales, for example, was part of "the growing movement of anti-democratic authoritarianism worldwide." He was removed while in the process of stealing an election that was illegitimate in the first place.

Embracing Morales puts one on the wrong side of a very troubling trend.

This is very disturbing.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,719 posts)
28. GMTA. I was just about to post the very same question.
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 12:48 PM
Dec 2019

When you're talking about autocracies, the designations of "left" and "right" are meaningless. When you're dealing with authoritarianism the political spectrum comes full circle.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

emulatorloo

(44,130 posts)
30. Good reporting by Holly Otterbein, thanks for posting
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 01:32 PM
Dec 2019

Bookmarking to read the full article later.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

Response to JoeOtterbein (Original post)

 

OldRed2450

(710 posts)
37. Bernie is giving people fodder
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 02:27 PM
Dec 2019

to say he is not a "democratic socialist" but a true socialist like the others around the world.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

peggysue2

(10,829 posts)
40. And Sanders believes this embrace of socialists around the world is helpful?
Wed Dec 4, 2019, 02:39 PM
Dec 2019

So be it for the Democratic Socialism mask. He just let it slip overboard.

Just another reason that Sanders will never be the Democratic nominee. He just handed Elizabeth Warren a huge gift!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
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