Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumWhy The Left Has Failed With Black Voters
https://forward.com/opinion/435826/why-the-left-has-failed-with-black-voters/Much has been made about the rise of the left in the Democratic Party. After Bernie Sanders performed above expectations in 2016, some predicted that his brand of left politics would soon dominate the Democrats politics nationally, and they were right, judging by the 2020 democratic primaries. Some pundits went as far as to call Sanders the frontrunner for 2020 immediately after the 2016 election, and many of the 2020 candidates took the narrative of Sanders ideological strength at face value. Most notably, Massachusetts Senator Elizabeth Warren has matched Sanders on the ideological left, to much success.
The problem is that the Democratic electorate isnt nearly as close to Sanders and Warren ideologically as some pundits would have you believe. Although Sanders essentially tied with Hillary Clinton with white voters, he lost black voters nationally by 50 points, which went a long way towards her winning the nomination. The candidate favored by black voters has won the Democratic primary in each contest going back to 1992. Black voters have an outsized influence on the primary process because of their concentration in the south, and because of their propensity to vote as a bloc. The south is a delegate rich region where white voters have abandoned the Democratic Party meaning the primary electorate of many of these states is plurality or majority black.
snip
Moreover, black voters tend to choose candidates that have worked hard to build a relationship with their community over time. Because of the unique history of black Americans, earning the trust of this community is not an overnight affair. Going back 30 years, nominees such as Barack Obama and the Clintons had deep ties to the black community before even deciding to run for president.
This is in stark contrast to Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren, candidates favored by the white left that have struggled mightily to pick up black support. Neither Sanders nor Warren spent much time building relationships with black voters prior to deciding to run for President. And they are not alone on the left in this regard. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez was largely unable to move black voters in her direction during her primary; her strength was mostly with college educated whites. Trying to attract black voters after the fact is extremely difficult.
by Marcus Johnson
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Boxerfan
(2,533 posts)I'm not buying the premise-among other things.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
comradebillyboy
(10,175 posts)African American support if one of them is to win the nomination. Of the two Warren is more of a bridge builder than Sanders so I would think she's more likely to broaden her non-white support.
But mostly I look at Johnson's article as a critique of the left's excessive focus on class warfare over all else.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LesterT
(41 posts)Attempting to address one or the other as separate entities is reactionary and reductionist. It also plays into the hands of the owners and capitalist pirates.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
comradebillyboy
(10,175 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LesterT
(41 posts)I could go do some digging but people need to take some responsibility in educating themselves on the political matters at hand. Otherwise, reactionary slogans take on a life of their own. The material and history on the subject matter is quite clear and a has very deep repository. Good luck.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ismnotwasm
(42,008 posts)Erase all responsibility whiteness as a social force and historic colonialism by saying race and class are intertwined oh and capitalist pirates
This seems familiar...
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LesterT
(41 posts)A cursory amount of research on the matter is all you need to understand the history. The history of the Black left is a rich and storied one.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Amimnoch
(4,558 posts)And its your assertion, not mine. Its your place to back up your own claims with evidence.
And welcome to DU.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Lobster Sauce
(11 posts)If a white man wants to lynch me, that's his problem. If he's got the power to lynch me, that's my problem. Racism is not a question of attitude; it's a question of power. Racism gets its power from capitalism."
(Stokely Carmichael)
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
radius777
(3,635 posts)Power is not merely economic, but cultural and social, through which gender and racial dynamics express themselves.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Garrett78
(10,721 posts)Even if race was originally an invention borne out of greed.
Those who say we must focus on income or wealth inequality in order to reduce racism and sexism have put the cart before the horse. If anything, we should focus more on anti-racism and anti-sexism as a way to chip away at wealth and income inequality.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Lobster Sauce
(11 posts)The roots of racism
(Alex Taylor)
(Excerpt)
"FOR MANY people coming to radical politics--Blacks and whites alike--hatred of racism and a desire to get rid of it is a huge motivating factor. This is in contrast to some of the common assumptions about where racism comes from.
The first is that racism is part of human nature--that it's always existed and always will. The second is the liberal idea of racism--that it comes from people's bad ideas, and that if we could change these ideas, we could get rid of it.
Both assumptions are wrong. Racism isn't just an ideology but is an institution. And its origins don't lie in bad ideas or in human nature. Rather, racism originated with capitalism and the slave trade. As the Marxist writer CLR James put it, "The conception of dividing people by race begins with the slave trade. This thing was so shocking, so opposed to all the conceptions of society which religion and philosophers had that the only justification by which humanity could face it was to divide people into races and decide that the Africans were an inferior race."
History proves this point. Prior to the advent of capitalism, racism as a systematic form of oppression did not exist. For example, ancient Greek and Roman societies had no concept of race or racial oppression."
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Garrett78
(10,721 posts)If you want to just post quotations, have at it. But you aren't actually addressing the points being made.
And if you think there'd be no racism with socialism, you're the one who desperately needs to "expand your thinking."
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Lobster Sauce
(11 posts)leftists deal in objective material reality and historical facts. Subjective opinions or beliefs do not change the reality and history. You're also building scarecrows of straw and dissembling at an alarming rate. No leftists are saying racism, sexism, etc...would be completely eradicated by socialist policy. Leftists are saying it offers the most complete program in dealing with what has become institutionalized under capitalist social relations. What you or I "believe" is irrelevant. Slogans for all times are not relevant. The historical reality is what is relevant.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Garrett78
(10,721 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Lobster Sauce
(11 posts)It reinforces it. There is no separation.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Garrett78
(10,721 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Lobster Sauce
(11 posts)Clearly the writers are not calling for the abandonment of the class struggle as you seem to want to believe. Denouncing Marx's materialist conception of history is not uncommon even in certain strains of leftist thought. They are obviously full of shit on their point of "doing both" is a failed program. The writers are hopeless idealists but much further along in their journey than liberals. They could certainly benefit from reading more Marx and less Spinoza and Althusser I don't think they get Marx.
Nothing prevents us from lining our criticism with a criticism of politics, from taking sides in politics, i.e., from entering into real struggles and identifying ourselves with them. This does not mean that we shall confront the world with new doctrinaire principles and proclaim: Here is the truth, on your knees before it! It means that we shall develop for the world new principles from the existing principles of the world. We shall not say: Abandon your struggles, they are mere folly; let us provide you with true campaign-slogans. Instead, we shall simply show the world why it is struggling, and consciousness of this is a thing it must acquire whether it wishes or not.
(Marx)
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Garrett78
(10,721 posts)"...are not calling for the abandonment of the class struggle as you seem to want to believe."
I have no idea how you got the impression that I'm calling for that or that I think the author is calling for that. You've completely invented that notion out of thin air.
But I do love how you've, after being called out for clearly having not read the piece, pivoted from saying the piece supports your position to claiming the author is full of shit. LOL
Let me help you out by sharing a brief excerpt that explains where I'm actually coming from when I say looking only through a class lens is insufficient:
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Garrett78
(10,721 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Response to Garrett78 (Reply #56)
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Garrett78
(10,721 posts)...an abandonment of the class struggle. Talk about a straw man. Neither I nor the authors said any such thing, but you've got your agenda, so whatever.
And you can continue to suggest that there's no racism without capitalism (or with socialism) or that a class analysis is sufficient to address racism, but that position's not supported by reality. Say it again and again while clicking your heels and it still won't be made true. Sorry.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Response to Garrett78 (Reply #60)
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Lobster Sauce
(11 posts)(Excerpt)
"In the social production of their existence, men inevitably enter into definite relations, which are independent of their will, namely relations of production appropriate to a given stage in the development of their material forces of production. The totality of these relations of production constitutes the economic structure of society, the real foundation, on which arises a legal and political superstructure and to which correspond definite forms of social consciousness. The mode of production of material life conditions the general process of social, political and intellectual life. It is not the consciousness of men that determines their existence, but their social existence that determines their consciousness."
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Cha
(297,655 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DaDeacon
(984 posts)Dr. King knew this hell the Black paanther party knew this.
just look it up :
https://www.poorpeoplescampaign.org/history/
http://theconversation.com/chicago-1969-when-black-panthers-aligned-with-confederate-flag-wielding-working-class-whites-68961
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
A few added words from Dr. King Speaking to the AFL-CIO on Dec. 11, 1961
"Negroes are almost entirely a working people. Our needs are identical with labor's needs: decent wages, fair working conditions, livable housing, old-age security, health and welfare measures, conditions in which families can grow, have education for their children and respect in the community. That is why Negroes support labor's demands and fight laws which curb labor. That is why the labor-hater and labor-baiter is virtually always a twin-headed creature, spewing anti-Negro epithets from one mouth and anti-labor propaganda from the other mouth."
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Ligyron
(7,639 posts)Someone just may try though.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Garrett78
(10,721 posts)As I put it, in the form of a poem:
With Friends Like These
Colorblindness aint a way to heal
Dont be toutin that shit as a progressive ideal
Race is not a card any more than racism is a game
Race is a construct with consequences just the same
Save your breath about how "all lives matter"
You miss the point with such useless chatter
Self-congratulate for being on the left
But your critique of oppression is bereft
Your politics may not be one of hate
Be cautious, still, about the narrative you create
Lets deconstruct the systems thatve been built
Not mock the phenomenon of white guilt
Class consciousness is important to be sure
But without wealth inequality racism would endure
Don't claim I want diversity just for diversity's sake
Women and POC in power aren't just icing on a cake
Studies make clear the oppressed are less likely to lose
When there're more in power who've walked in their shoes
12/5/2019
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Lobster Sauce
(11 posts)Let me help you with your journey in further understanding race and class...
"It was one class - the oppressed, and that other class - the oppressor. And it's got to be a universal fact. Those that don't admit to that are those that don't want to get involved in a revolution, because they know as long as they're dealing with a race thing, they'll never be involved in a revolution."
"We never negated the fact that there was racism in America, but we said that the by-product, what comes off of capitalism, that happens to be racism. That capitalism comes first and next is racism. That when they brought slaves over here, it was to make money. So first the idea came that we want to make money, then the slaves came in order to make that money. That means, through historical fact, that racism had to come from capitalism. It had to be capitalism first and racism was a byproduct of that."
"We have to understand very clearly that there's a man in our community called a capitalist. Sometimes he's black and sometimes he's white. But that man has to be driven out of our community, because anybody who comes into the community to make profit off the people by exploiting them can be defined as a capitalist."
"We got to face some facts. That the masses are poor, that the masses belong to what you call the lower class, and when I talk about the masses, I'm talking about the white masses, I'm talking about the black masses, and the brown masses, and the yellow masses, too. We've got to face the fact that some people say you fight fire best with fire, but we say you put fire out best with water. We say you don't fight racism with racism. We're gonna fight racism with solidarity. We say you don't fight capitalism with no black capitalism; you fight capitalism with socialism. Socialism is the people. If you're scared of socialism you're scared of yourself.
(Fred Hampton excerpts from Power Anywhere Where There's People)
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Garrett78
(10,721 posts)Last edited Sun Dec 8, 2019, 04:00 AM - Edit history (2)
Origins aside, however, racism would persist even without wealth inequality. Wealthy Black folks get profiled and abused by police. Wealthy Black folks get stereotyped by society. You can be poor and white and receive better treatment than if you're Black and well-to-do.
A class analysis is not sufficient. And a rising tide that lifts all boats isn't sufficient when some boats are starting so much higher, or when some have been left at the shore and don't even have boats.
Those who only view society through a class lens might argue against race-based affirmative action and they're wrong if they do so. Or they might argue against reparations for everything from slavery to Jim Crow to police brutality--again, they're wrong. Or they might argue, as we see on DU frequently, against the notion that it matters whether or not those in power are POC or women--when, in fact, studies have made clear that women and POC receive stronger representation, in general (there are always exceptions), from representatives who are women or POC. The origins of racism don't alter those realities. Frequently, though, you'll see here at DU - whenever there's criticism over a lack of diversity - dismissive comments (from both leftists and moderates) such as, "I'm not going to vote for someone just because they're a woman or a POC." Or, worse, you'll read posts (again, from both leftists and moderates) using the bullshit right wing term "race card."
This is not meant as a defense of capitalism. It most certainly isn't. In fact, I haven't mentioned capitalism, and that's the point--racism would persist even without capitalism, even if racism was borne out of capitalism originally.
If you want to bring down capitalism, you had better take a big bite out of racism (and sexism) first.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Lobster Sauce
(11 posts)More expansion of your thinking...
https://www.blackagendareport.com/poor_black_lives_matter_to_capitalism_new_jim_crow
How Poor Black Lives Matter to U.S. Capitalism Today: Reflections on The New Jim Crow
(Paul Street)
-----
http://socialistworker.org/2011/01/04/race-class-and-marxism
(Keeanga-Yamahtta Taylor)
------
https://www.umass.edu/stpec/sites/default/files/Workshop_Readings/T.F.Reed,%20Jacobin--%20Why%20Liberals%20Separate%20Race%20from%20Class%20_%20Jacobin.pdf
Why Liberals Separate Race from Class
(Toure Reed)
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Cha
(297,655 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MH1
(17,600 posts)are just as f*cked in this country as poor (most) black people - or even in the same order of magnitude!! - then I will be ready to listen to a "class first" approach.
Not that my opinion (not a black person) matters. It's the opinion of the black community that matters. But I'm pretty sure that as long as innocent black teens are getting gunned down or unfairly locked up by white cops, as long as the black teens that escape that still can't get a good job when a less qualified white kid does easily ... it's not likely Sanders is going to appeal to them with "race-blind", economics-first policies. "Economics first" keeps American blacks right where they are in the back of the economic bus, and there is no reason they should be satisfied with that.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
TheRealNorth
(9,500 posts)You could similarly argue that moderates and the social justice warriors have failed the Left. They have advanced or been indifferent to neoliberal trade and labor policies that have destroyed labor unions and depressed wages.
That is part of the reason why I think we lost the upper Midwest- when you are mostly just talking about minority social issues while small town economies suck in the Midwest, you are creating a disconnect with those voters.
However, I would rather not have this fight because I believe both labor and social justice are important, and accusing that the other wing is "too involved" with their own interests only furthers the Republican goal to Divide us.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
comradebillyboy
(10,175 posts)was worth sharing. We are in the midst of a primary election campaign and the differences in candidates views and positions are very much worth examining. The time for unity comes once we have selected a nominee.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BeyondGeography
(39,379 posts)Appreciate the update.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)regardless of how inaccurate it may or may not be.
I imagine many people require these short, bumper-sticker length translations such as yours to make it easier for a bias to digest inconvenient information without any awkward, gassy moments later in the night.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BeyondGeography
(39,379 posts)while people here complain about the lack of qualified black candidates in the top tier?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
JoeOtterbein
(7,702 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,667 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BeyondGeography
(39,379 posts)Btw, if there has been a better speech on black America in this campaign than this, I'd love to hear it. Post it in your response.
It starts at 1:33:30:
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,667 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BeyondGeography
(39,379 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,667 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)Not everyone is insulated from real harm when I guy like Donald J Trump gets elected president.
N'est pas?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
appalachiablue
(41,171 posts)> "This is in stark contrast to Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren, candidates favored by the white left.."
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,667 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Mr.Bill
(24,319 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DownriverDem
(6,231 posts)has a great relationship with black voters. Just ask who they support.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
TreasonousBastard
(43,049 posts)Black voters have been bullshitted for so long that you have to do more than throw more fancy words at them.
I suspect they knew what to expect when they heard about 40 acres and a mule.
Even though it was actually their idea.
https://www.pbs.org/wnet/african-americans-many-rivers-to-cross/history/the-truth-behind-40-acres-and-a-mule/
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
tirebiter
(2,539 posts)Lincoln was more ambivalent. Sherman was using it to establish order and get the freed slaves to act as occupiers.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
crazytown
(7,277 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
highplainsdem
(49,034 posts)had a strong releationship with the black community decades before he became Obama's VP.
That thread:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287363712
The article it linked to:
https://apnews.com/86ac620dd00045dc9a8f21900ee4cfdc
From that article:
He knew our plight, he knew how we felt, said Richard Mouse Smith, who met Biden as a kid in Wilmington, Delawares black community where Biden worked as a lifeguard during college.
He walked through gangs, learned all nicknames, he was part of this community, said Smith, who remains one of Bidens oldest and closest friends. Joe had to be accountable to the black leadership in this city. We made him.
Biden has credited his early years in Delaware politics as formative, particularly the community known as The Bucket, the largely African American, downtrodden northeast Wilmington neighborhood that was home to housing projects, crime, drugs and violence. He returned to the area as a young lawyer during the 1968 Wilmington riots after the assassination of Martin Luther King Jr. He represented the community of New Castle as a county councilman, supporting public housing and opposing highway projects he saw as potentially harmful to black neighborhoods.
After his election to the U.S. Senate in 1972, Biden remained a fixture in the black community, a regular at the annual NAACP dinner and a commencement speaker at historically black Delaware State University. He talked to everyone, including the wait staff, according to people who knew him at the time. Most important, he listened, recalled Delaware States provost and incoming president, Tony Allen, who served as Bidens speechwriter and special assistant when Biden was in the Senate.
It almost seemed like he had a unique familiarity with people who might not have been advantaged, said Allen. He was always the last one to leave, making sure he connected with people and knew what their issues were. Its kind of why a lot of African Americans affectionately call him Uncle Joe. We feel like hes got our back, hes gonna consult with us and make the right decision.
Please stop trivializing this by pretending the only reason Biden does better with black voters is that he was Obama's VP.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cha
(297,655 posts)yesterday and was thinking the same that you're reporting on.. but, I didn't even have the ******* energy to even respond.
Link to tweet
Goth https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287363712#post39
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(145,554 posts)This is from the article cited in the OP
You might wonder why Democrats havent realized that their messaging is at odds with that of most black voters. But the truth is, white voters in the Democratic primary are more educated, less religious, wealthier, and more ideologically liberal than black voters, and they live geographically separated from black voters, both within cities in the northeast and west coast and regionally in the south. This effective segregation has resulted in a huge blind spot for these progressive candidates.
As white voters continue to move left, the divide could lead to mounting tension within the Democratic coalition, a symptom of which can be seen in the debate over President Obamas legacy. While the white left is eager to reinterpret Obamas legacy as a failure, black Democrats have a near universal approval of the former President.
In general, the problem can be summed up as follows: Black Democrats want the party to continue its fight to protect civil and voting rights and to expand access and opportunity, while white Democrats want the party to take on ideological stances regardless of the electoral consequences. Since black voters have disproportionate influence on the primary contest, there is the possibility that black voters could essentially override the choice of the white left (and deliver a Biden victory over Warren or Sanders).
That outcome would likely increase the intra-party tension, with inevitable calls to limit the electoral power of the southern states in future primaries. Of course, the white left could go in the opposite direction and decide to learn more about black voter decisions. But if the aftermath of 2016 is any indication, that rosy scenario probably isnt going to happen.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BlueWI
(1,736 posts)There's far more regional, generational, and ideological diversity among black voters and among the so-called white left than broad brush articles would have you believe. Where's the polling data that shows that the white left views Obama's presidency as a failure? It makes much more sense to frame the left's perspective as a preference for structural solutions over incrementalism. That's more accurate and less reductive than to say the left wants ideological stances.
And as a party, we need to tap into all the swaths of likely Democratic voters. That's the key to future wins, rather than assuming that a plurality of black voters supporting Obama's former vice president is some kind of explain-all trend.
In 2016, faulty assumptions were made about black voter enthusiasm for the nominee because of excessive confidence in a "black firewall," which was largely clustered in red states. If you look at the GE totals, Trump actually improved by 2% over Romney among black voters, and combined with vote suppression and lower than expected enthusiasm for the nominee in key urban districts, the margin didn't materialize for a Democratic win in the GE.
What we need to be doing is acknowledging that there is a black left AND a black moderate voting block, and tailoring our messages AND our policies to reach both.
That would be a sea change from the flyover cliches of this article.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
redqueen
(115,103 posts)Utterly dishonest spin.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
radius777
(3,635 posts)effectively excusing away racism/sexism/etc as the byproduct of class oppression.
The fact is, whites of all classes over the past 500 years have created and actively defended a system of white supremacy.
Populism both from the left and right could be seen as a nativist reaction to the ascendancy of PoC/women/etc, to trade with nonwhite countries, to nonwhite immigration, etc. Globalism is scary because the globe is full of nonwhite people who want access to the global economy that whites have heretofore monopolized (while still exploiting those countries).
Remember that many/most of these white working class 'populists' spent the past 40 years voting for Reagan Repubs, now suddenly claim to hate the capitalist system once they saw a black man rise to the top of it.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cha
(297,655 posts)Awww.. your OP has apparently upset some..
Thank you, comradebillyboy
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
highplainsdem
(49,034 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Dyedinthewoolliberal
(15,588 posts)Only Extreme Right, Right and Centrists... .
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Last edited Mon Dec 9, 2019, 07:25 AM - Edit history (1)
but the headline that suggests the giant, hugely diverse Democratic Party doesn't define America's left and isn't heavily dominated by the very large liberal demographic is...at very least etymologically challenged. Everyone else is a variation of left, including the radical-to-extremist fringe groups whose reason for existence is opposition to the mainstream left.
Call Sanders what he is: radical left. Socialist left if preferred. He considers capitalism evil and seeks universalist solutions, including communal ownership of business. In today's America, that's so radical he can't give it away.
Sanders' view admits no really significant difference between Democrats and Republicans. He's been claiming for decades that it doesn't really matter who wins if it's either one, "Tweedledum or Tweedledee." That's radical thinking. Only HE is different enough to be worth voting for. That's not "left," as in the Democratic Party's dominant liberalism, that's a distant view from so far out differences can't be seen.
As for why he failed POC, Sanders is a socialist running a white populist campaign. He can't serve AA as they require and also draw resentful, antagonistic white populists, most of whom are some combination of economically progressive and socially conservative. And there are a whole lot more angry white populists who think they're "getting left behind" than there are black voters.
Anyway, we know, because Sanders has said so many times, that he will take care of POC with his universalist solutions. He's not forgotten them, just has his own ideas about what they should want.
"I am not now, nor have I ever been a liberal Democrat." Bernie Sanders
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden