All of the Democrats are in favor of universal health care, which is simply any program that ensures coverage for everyone regardless of how that's done. Single-payer is more or less the equivalent of M4A, but universal health care could be variants of the ACA or some other program as long as everyone is included. Everybody is for universal health care.

Do fish antibiotics work?

It's shameful at best. We all need to admit the truth. Our healthcare system is a failure.

Bernie, too.

and heart attacks. Their inexpensive and easy to take.

Why would anyone be against that?

fish antibiotics is what fish farmers give to their trapped fish to prevent disease from spreading in the fish pond. Much like the mass medication on our factory farms... with both antibiotics and growth hormones.

not drugs made out of fish.

> Americans take fish antibiotics because it's cheaper than a visit to the doctor. The Guardian, Dec. 11, 2019. A study of antibiotics marketed for fish online found user comments about human use garner nine times as much attention.

New research has found that some Americans are probably taking fish antibiotics as a substitute for going to the doctor, which can be prohibitively expensive for many in the US. Unlike other antibiotics, fish antibiotics are readily available without a prescription online and are relatively inexpensive as anti-bacterial drugs for pet fish.

Researchers analyzed reviews for fish antibiotics available online, and found a small but significant percentage of consumers reviewed the antibiotics for human use. In addition, at least five of the antibiotics marketed for fish that researchers looked at had the exact imprints, colors and shapes of antibiotics for humans, which could encourage people to use them.

“While human consumption of fish antibiotics is likely low, any consumption by humans of antibiotics intended for animals is alarming,” said Brandon Bookstaver, a pharmacist and director of residency and training at the University of South Carolina College of Pharmacy...
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/dec/11/fish-antibiotics-human-use-cheaper-than-doctor

Thanks for the thread JoeOtterbein.

other medicines for animals they own. Dogs. Cats. Horses. Our local farm supply chain has them available for their customers, right on the shelf. Need some amoxicillin? They have it. People have been self-prescribing and buying pharmaceuticals that way for a very, very long time in the states that have such laws.

That is extra shameful.

That's why. The prices for pharmaceuticals are based on what the market will bear, not on the cost of the drug. There's ample evidence of that in prices in overseas markets that have socialized health care.

Prices are high here because the pharmaceutical companies can get away with overpricing. We have no real controls over the price of drugs in the United States, unlike many countries.

Vote for Democrats for every office. And go and vote, just in case you don't think it matters.

I grew up in the Upper Midwest and small-town vets were a particularly common source of meds for people who tended to self-diagnose. People would also get meds for their pets from rural livestock vets because it was way cheaper than going to "normal" vets.

That was 40 years ago.

For the present, it's not just the cost, as Sanders seems to be asserting. A lot of it has to do with self-diagnosing/medicating and avoiding medical professionals. Our social media culture is probably partly to blame for that.

medical care. That's obvious. There's nothing new about that. It's a bad idea, but people do it anyhow.

There's not just one, single Democratic presidential primary candidate who wants to fix that. They all want to fix that. What is needed is for our Democratic nominee to win and to help us win back the Senate, as well. Then, and only then, we'll be able to institute changes in our healthcare system that will actually benefit everyone, including those who are priced out of the healthcare system.

Besides, just electing a particular person as President doesn't ensure that that President's policies will be implemented. Everything passes through Congress. We don't just need a President. We need Congress to also be led by Democrats.

It's not simple, and no individual can do it alone.

We must turn out the vote in historically record numbers if we are to succeed. If we fail to do that, we will continue to lose in the Senate. If you don't think that matters (not just you), you're horribly wrong.

Of course, money is a driving factor for many (if not most), but there's also a significant chunk of the populace that has bought into the incessant anti-science nonsense propagated by social media. They don't trust the medical profession. They don't trust the pharmaceutical industry. They trust their FB "friends" like Jenny McCarthy and the heavily-spammed ads masquerading as "studies" about getting drugs from alternative sources. The difference in cost is just the icing on the cake for some of them.

Agree entirely on all of our candidates wanting similar goals where healthcare is concerned and that the Senate is the key there. That's really the key to any of our agenda items. Otherwise, it's just more of the past 10 years with McConnell, et al.

for human use. It's a counter-culture thing. I remember people talking about animal meds back in the Whole Earth Catalog and Mother Earth News days, from a very different perspective. Alternative access to pharmaceuticals has been a thing for a long time. But, it has always been a fringe thing, and few people actually did it. It's still few doing it. My once next-door neighbor did it, because he suffered from recurring abscesses in a molar and couldn't afford to have the tooth extracted. So, he controlled the infection with veterinary amoxicillin from the local feed store. He knew the human dose because a dentist once prescribed it for him. In the end, though, he finally did have the tooth extracted at one of those free dental clinics that sometimes are available for a short time.

The danger, of course, is misdiagnosis and choosing the wrong medications. Seeing a doctor is always the best alternative, although some natural medicine folks would disagree. They see their own "practitioners," who do things and prescribe things based on other ways of looking at healthcare. Then there are the quacks, who prey on people with life-threatening illnesses they can't afford to treat.

The answer to all of it, of course, is a healthcare system that lets people seek care when they need it, without having to worry about trading off healthcare for a roof over their heads or food on the table. That's what we need, whatever name it goes under.

As are really lazy people. So many better ways to promote single payer. Still, I guess a statistically insignificant story is better than no story at all.

Most people are not aware that such medications are available over the counter for pets. It's a tiny issue, really. It has been going on for decades, but only a very few self-prescribe that way. Most people have no idea that such a thing is even possible.

In California, at least when I lived there, you could go to a regular pharmacy and buy many prescription drugs without a prescription, as long as you specified it was going to be used for your pet or farm animal. Not all pharmacies would sell you the meds, but many would. there were limits to that, of course. You couldn't buy opioids or some other classes of drugs, but many things were available. As you said, though, very, very few people actually did that.

It's the very same drug (or one of them) that's used for the same condition in humans. However, you need a prescription to get it, even for a cat, and even online. Interestingly, it's a prescription medication not FDA approved for veterinary use; however, it is a commonly accepted practice for veterinarians to use this medication in cats.

seeing a vet. I just know that at least some prescription drugs are available without prescriptions for animal use. I see them at the farm supply store. I know it varies from state to state, but farmers have been the ones to push for those laws. Many treat their livestock themselves, rather than call a vet every time. The exact rules, I'm sure, vary from state to state.

don't think Bernie has a good grasp of modern medicine or biology in general.

Let's try this again. Here's the key excerpt from the Newsweek piece: