Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumWhy UK Labour Lost part 1 - Brexit
Boris: 'Get Brexit done'
Labour: 'We will request another extension from the EU and tear up the deal, the Boris one, negotiate a new one, a good one, different but better than Teresa May's, could take some time though, hold a new referendum with another extension, if rejected we stay in, if accepted we're out, but can't say how we will campaign, in or out, because we do respect the result of the old vote, the one that settled it, you know, last referendum, like we said at time, also last election, and will never ever crash out on a hard Brexit'.
Got it?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
RelativelyJones
(898 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
crazytown
(7,277 posts)that's my point. That was the Tory campaign. Corbyn and the Manifesto are not the whole story.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
brooklynite
(94,786 posts)Last edited Sun Dec 15, 2019, 02:49 PM - Edit history (1)
...because Corbyn decided that the Manifesto was so popular that nobody would care that Labour was wishy-washy on Brexit.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
crazytown
(7,277 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
T_i_B
(14,749 posts)The Tory campaign promise to "get Brexit done" tapped into that, even if it is utterly dishonest.
Labour's position on the other hand may have been more honest that Johnson's bluff and bluster, but it didn't really appeal to anybody.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,710 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
RelativelyJones
(898 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
tblue37
(65,490 posts)soundbites. They're doing better then his election season, but still need to work on their messaging. That's sometimes true about the impeachment battle, too, as well as the election campaign.
NRaleighLiberal posted Josh Marshall's comments on this point:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212784394
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
crazytown
(7,277 posts)That's simple enough, and the overwhelming wish of Democrats everywhere.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
redqueen
(115,103 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Shrek
(3,984 posts)And then there is also the fact that, since Brexit happened, Corbyn and the Labour Party have made a series of missteps. A lot of people are already saying that Theresa Mays deal could have passed if Labour M.P.s had backed it. That would have kept Theresa May in her post, and British politics would look very different. Corbyn never gave a lead on that. Corbyn was hedging it all the way along. There have been moments where the Conservative Party could have been boxed in, and now Johnson and the Conservative Party have broken through, and Corbyn carries a lot of responsibility for that.
https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/how-boris-johnsons-brexit-won
Of course it's hindsight, but it's clear now that Labour could have prevented this months ago.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)He could not hold Speaker Pelosi's high heels as a strategist, plus he has a twitish way of speaking.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
T_i_B
(14,749 posts)Save for a few cultists. He was wildly unpopular outside of his own little faction. Especially so with the elderly. That was a major factor in this election. Labour lost it more than anything else.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
abqtommy
(14,118 posts)and I'm told I must choose between a plate of boiled carrots or a plate of boiled turnips. I leave the
establishment barfing my guts up since from my childhood I have loathed these types of things. Same with Jeremy and Boris...
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Otto Lidenbrock
(581 posts)Ed Miliband's Labour 2015 -----> Jeremy Corbyn's Labour 2017 = +9.6% of the vote.
Jeremy Corbyn's Labour 2017 -----> Jeremy Corbyn's Labour 2019 = -7.9% of the vote.
Theresa May's Conservatives 2017 -----> Boris Johnson's Conservatives 2019 = +1.2%
Johnson only improved the Conservatives by a very small percentage. Corbyn ran the same manifesto in 2017. So who did Labour really lose votes to?
Answer: The Brexit Party and The Scottish Nationalist Party.
Nigel Farage set up the one issue party just this year so to act as a protest vote for lifelong Labour voters who want Brexit done but will never vote for the Conservatives.
The Scottish Nationalist Party had a great night because Scotland voted to stay in the EU and don't want Brexit. Now they have the power to call for a vote on leaving the UK and running their own country.
Labour tried to placate both pro-Brexit people and pro-EU people and it backfired in a disaster. People deserted Labour to vote for their conviction on Brexit whether to leave or remain.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
tritsofme
(17,406 posts)in Westminster, run by Johnson.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
mvd
(65,180 posts)To me there were a few factors:
1) As you say, Labour botched the Brexit issue
2) Labour should have forcefully responded to accusations of being anti-Semitic
3) Corbyn is great on the issues but his political skills can be lacking
4) The influential BBC is not so favorable to Labour. Just look at the political editors track record.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
bullwinkle428
(20,631 posts)https://www.thomhartmann.com/forum/2016/02/harry-truman-understood-choice-between-phony-democrat-and-real-republican-will-result
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
T_i_B
(14,749 posts)...and the worst opposition of all time, who were more interested in fighting each other and standing on a platform that was at times utterly nutty people will always choose the bad governing party as that at least is a known quantity.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)with a sane leader at the helm.
Labour literally drove off their base of support in the industrial north.
Should be a cautionary tale for Democrats not to follow suit.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden