Democratic Primaries

BlueMTexpat

(15,369 posts) Sun Dec 22, 2019, 11:12 PM Dec 2019

The 2020 Democrats Were Told to Give a Gift or Ask Forgiveness. Guess What the Women Chose.

It was the last question of the last debate of the year and Elizabeth Warren and Amy Klobuchar, who differ on many policy issues, were united in their answer.

Having watched the debate, I was struck by this contrast. And yes, I believe that Amy also did very well in this debate.

...
It was the last question of the Democratic debate on Thursday, and the candidates were thrown a curveball. They could give a “gift” to someone else onstage. Or, in the “spirit of the season,” they could ask for forgiveness.

The men chose to give: an appreciation for teamwork, for example (Tom Steyer), a different vision for the future (Bernie Sanders), a copy of a book (Mr. Sanders and Andrew Yang).

The women chose to seek forgiveness: for being too forceful. Too passionate. Too much.

“I know that sometimes I get really worked up, and sometimes I get a little hot,” Senator Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts said. She didn’t “really mean to,” she said. It was just that she heard so many voters’ painful stories every day.
...
Senator Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota, for her part, wanted to “ask for forgiveness any time any of you get mad at me.” She could be “blunt,” she said. “But I am doing this because I think it is so important to pick the right candidate here.”
...
These responses, in the final minutes of a two-and-a-half-hour debate, threw into stark relief a dynamic that is not often so visible. Many women feel a sense of obligation, reinforced by daily double standards, to apologize for taking up space. Physical space. Political space. Rhetorical space.
...

**********
I know that the NYT has a paywall, but I still seem to have some free articles left there. This is a worthwhile article and very much worth thinking about.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

18 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

The 2020 Democrats Were Told to Give a Gift or Ask Forgiveness. Guess What the Women Chose. (Original Post) BlueMTexpat Dec 2019 OP

This debate process is painful and needs to end yesterday. (n/t) SMC22307 Dec 2019 #1

Agreed Sherman A1 Dec 2019 #9

Looks like there are four more, with three in February. SMC22307 Dec 2019 #17

That's interesting. I watchedthe entire debate & heard all those last minute replys. napi21 Dec 2019 #2

Are they really feeling less adequate or just more willing to be honest about themselves? nt List left Dec 2019 #4

Or conditioned to apologize. We women feel the need to apologize for so many reasons. Lexee Dec 2019 #8

And this, IMO. eom BlueMTexpat Dec 2019 #11

This, IMO. eom BlueMTexpat Dec 2019 #10

The women wanted forgiveness for being themselves catrose Dec 2019 #3

That's scary! n/t napi21 Dec 2019 #6

And yes it is! eom BlueMTexpat Dec 2019 #12

The inability to be self reflective is a weakness. List left Dec 2019 #5

I like your take. BlueMTexpat Dec 2019 #13

You don't need to go to NYT, CNN covered it the same evening question everything Dec 2019 #7

What a disaster of a question bucolic_frolic Dec 2019 #14

These debates are nothing but fodder for the RNC... the ads are writing themselves. SMC22307 Dec 2019 #18

Yes, that difference was very, very clear in reference to that question. ehrnst Dec 2019 #15

Who comes up with these silly questions? cwydro Dec 2019 #16

SMC22307

(8,090 posts)

1. This debate process is painful and needs to end yesterday. (n/t)

Reply to BlueMTexpat (Original post)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 11:22 PM

Dec 2019

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

Sherman A1

(38,958 posts)

9. Agreed

Reply to SMC22307 (Reply #1)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 08:03 AM

Dec 2019

I much prefer the town hall format where everyone gets a half hour to discuss the given topic instead of these dog and pony shows.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

SMC22307

(8,090 posts)

17. Looks like there are four more, with three in February.

Reply to Sherman A1 (Reply #9)

Tue Dec 24, 2019, 12:58 AM

Dec 2019

And I truly hope the DNC never, ever, ever goes this route again.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

napi21

(45,806 posts)

2. That's interesting. I watchedthe entire debate & heard all those last minute replys.

Reply to BlueMTexpat (Original post)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 11:34 PM

Dec 2019

One thing that sticks in my mind was when Yang was the first candidate called on with that last question about a gift or apology. He kinda stared into the camera , took a deep breath, and said WOW! You could tell he was really caught off guard with that question. He then went on to offer everyone a book. I guess somebody had to be first and I suspect all the candidates would have been similarly caught off guard. Too bad there can only be one "first".

I didn't notice at the time what the NYT pointed out as the diff. between the men & the women. I find that disconcerting. Although the women on that stage always appear to be tough, inside they are still feeling less adequate than the men. Hmmmmmm...

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

List left

(595 posts)

4. Are they really feeling less adequate or just more willing to be honest about themselves? nt

Reply to napi21 (Reply #2)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 11:48 PM

Dec 2019

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

Lexee

(377 posts)

8. Or conditioned to apologize. We women feel the need to apologize for so many reasons.

Reply to List left (Reply #4)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 12:33 AM

Dec 2019

Especially being passionate or even moving toward anger. Even if it is about people going hungry or dying.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

BlueMTexpat

(15,369 posts)

11. And this, IMO. eom

Reply to Lexee (Reply #8)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 08:54 AM

Dec 2019

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

BlueMTexpat

(15,369 posts)

10. This, IMO. eom

Reply to List left (Reply #4)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 08:54 AM

Dec 2019

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

catrose

(5,068 posts)

3. The women wanted forgiveness for being themselves

Reply to BlueMTexpat (Original post)

Sun Dec 22, 2019, 11:39 PM

Dec 2019

We all can use forgiveness for something, but only women need forgiveness for being themselves.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

napi21

(45,806 posts)

6. That's scary! n/t

Reply to catrose (Reply #3)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 12:13 AM

Dec 2019

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

BlueMTexpat

(15,369 posts)

12. And yes it is! eom

Reply to napi21 (Reply #6)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 08:54 AM

Dec 2019

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

List left

(595 posts)

5. The inability to be self reflective is a weakness.

Reply to BlueMTexpat (Original post)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 12:13 AM

Dec 2019

The inability to be self reflective is a weakness. Why frame this as a shortcoming on the women's part? What we have now in the oval office is an extreme example of one* with the inability to be self reflective. wanting women to take that standard is in my opinion going the wrong direction. These are powerful women made stronger and more resilient for this ability.

tRump

* On reflection maybe all of his lackeys as well.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

BlueMTexpat

(15,369 posts)

13. I like your take.

Reply to List left (Reply #5)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 08:55 AM

Dec 2019

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

question everything

(47,487 posts)

7. You don't need to go to NYT, CNN covered it the same evening

Reply to BlueMTexpat (Original post)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 12:26 AM

Dec 2019

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=388697

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

bucolic_frolic

(43,182 posts)

14. What a disaster of a question

Reply to BlueMTexpat (Original post)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 09:23 AM

Dec 2019

Trumpers and dominant macho men will consider women's answers "neurotic" (if the men know the word), or just like 'the little lady'.
And clipped here or there, edited for "clarity", the answers will make great sound bites - for Kevin McCarthy Republicanism!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

SMC22307

(8,090 posts)

18. These debates are nothing but fodder for the RNC... the ads are writing themselves.

Reply to bucolic_frolic (Reply #14)

Tue Dec 24, 2019, 01:01 AM

Dec 2019

It was a truly stupid idea to drag out this process for so long.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)

15. Yes, that difference was very, very clear in reference to that question.

Reply to BlueMTexpat (Original post)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 09:36 AM

Dec 2019

The ability to learn from one's mistakes first requires that one acknowledges that one is capable of making a mistake...

But by all means, sell that book.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

cwydro

(51,308 posts)

16. Who comes up with these silly questions?

Reply to BlueMTexpat (Original post)

Mon Dec 23, 2019, 12:35 PM

Dec 2019

Stupid.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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