that vote SUCKED - anyone with two brain cells could see they were lying their way into a war - voting for IWR was absolutely INEXCUSABLE. People still die EVERY DAY because of that fucked up war

But hey, unlike Joe, Bernie didn't fall for it. Bernie has shown excellent judgment when it comes to foreign policy decisions.


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

nope

But, they'll still criticiser Bernie for it somehow, some way. You can count on that!!


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

she doesn't have "two brain cells to put together"?

Somehow Hillary got 66 million Votes in 2016.. and would be our Madam POTUS except for the Russians, the LIES and HATE Machine of Jill Stein, the M$M's "But her emails" 24/7, BS voters for trump, Comey, Cambridge Analytica..

It's that she knew it was a bad decision and went along with it anyway. Lots of Democrats who should have known better supported that war.

Buttegieg may be 2nd to last on my list of preferred candidates, but talking about a big foreign policy mistake in regards to a primary opponent is completely fair game. Making things up about the validity of the war to support Biden's vote, as some are doing, hurts more than anything.

Exactly what you are doing.

If Joe is the nominee you gonna keep this up?

I'm not "using one vote to fuck ourselves" lol.

like the last 2 Iraq invasion supporters that lost their elections.

in American foreign policy since the Vietnam war.

Only helps Trump

He is being called out for his record, and rightfully so. How could repukes use this to help Trump? EVERY REPUKE salivated for war which is SOP for those chicken hawk assholes. It was SICKENING when Democrats went along with it.

and it was just plain COWARDICE that so many Dems gave them a pass

Seriously how fucked up is that? I can hardly breathe when I read that shit.

Neither he or I would risk reelecting a fascist killer because of the mistakes made by politicians in that vote.

Some here seem to be wiling to risk that.

Shame on whoever here is doing that.

You cant breathe? Ok, neither could I when I would envision night after night a car pulling up to our house and a couple of uniformed soldiers getting out to come to the door to inform us my wife's son was dead.

This NEVER HAPPENED thank god, but we lived with it for over a year.

And again, even with that, even though I was LOUDLY ANTI that war, even though I wanted to PUNCH Hannity in the FACE when he would POUND on his desk and DEMAND we have that war that he was UNWILLING to fight in, even though all that, I would NEVER use that vote as a litmus test that could reelect someone who not only WANTS to torture children but who IS TORTURING CHILDREN RIGHT FUCKING NOW!

will always help Trump.

people should ALWAYS be given a pass when they help to start a war based on lies

ever started a war. And lying about Democrats only helps Trump

END OF STORY

It’s a 20 year old issue. Or would you rather see Trump re-elected. Kerry and Clinton were both attacked for it. How did that work out for our country?

*EVERYONE* who supported that war *SHOULD* have been on trial at the Hague. little better than the Reichstag members supporting the anchluss of Austria or the policy of obtaining lebensraum.

Getting the orange one out is a matter of survival, for us and the world, but those votes were the darkest things America has done since throwing the Japanese in internment camps, if not Wounded Knee.

Or simply the negative things?

Either way leads to bad outcomes.

will lead to worse outcomes. The worst Democrat running is still 1000 times better than Trump.

But when we are comparing candidates, it is necessary to remember what actually happened.

You’re just refusing to see it.

I would say on a case-by-case basis. And this one can be done by now. We all know we tolerated this with Hillary. And now it is yet 4 years older.

I chose the best available candidate.

It's almost like all these Democrats are vying for the same job or something.

In our nation's entire history of choosing a party candidate, I doubt you could find a single election cycle where there wasn't inner party attacks. This isn't what's going to get Trump elected.

and 04 and 2000. How did they work out?

authorize the war he then volunteered to go fight. Okay.

Still going as far as I'm concerned, and no politician has explained why to my satisfaction.

I protested the Vietnam war from my early teens until it was over. I didn't volunteer to go fight it.

unless you have proof he had been discharged by 2003.

he was a soldier - he is certainly entitled to have an opinion regarding how wars are started

PB should just not go there. Hillary had the same issue - did he vote for her?

support the Military Industrial Complex.

I'm sure his motives were good to him but I my opinion too

Idiot.

And knock off the name calling, please. This conversation is over.

It was a bad vote on info that was clearly being trumped up for the purpose of war. I remember the months leading up to this, listening to the news every morning with mounting dismay.

But almost everyone did it. Even Colin Powell sacrificed his integrity for it. And almost everyone regrets it now. We should not be hobbling our Dems during the primary. Anyone of three or four could become our nominee.

in the aftermath of 9/11, it looked like political suicide to vote against it. I wish more had voted against it, but I understand why many didn't

The drumbeat was loud and consistent, and it garnished enthusiastic public support. Most people loved it and were delighted by "Shock and Awe". I watched, but in horror. I couldn't stop thinking about all the innocent people who were dying in Iraq at that very moment.

people still die EVERY DAY because of IWR and it is DISGUSTING that so many people lacked the courage to call it out for what it was STOP EXCUSING THEM

I'm just saying don't criticize someone for voting to authorizing a war you volunteered to fight in.

even if he volunteered to go to Iraq, he can still have an opinion regarding how it started

That will be the damn day that I’ll make excuses for those who supported that fucked up mess. It’s not about giving cover to politicians, it’s about the gazillion MAIMED and DEAD soldiers and civilians, the devastated countries, the displaced people, the money wasted, the multi-year carnage, the trauma, the lives ruined. It’s sickening.

No, I won’t be making up any excuses for anybody.

people claiming Dubya looks good when compared to Trump, people making excuses for that piece of crap war vote

THERE ARE NO EXCUSES - they HAD to know it was wrong and they went along with it anyways - the cost is STAGGERING and ONGOING

FUCK EVERYONE who voted for IWR - THEY NEED TO BE CALLED OUT FOR IT AS LONG AS THEY LIVE.

unless you want to admit to not voting for Hillary in 2016.

yes ultimately you still vote for the best candidate but it NEVER means you cannot call out their serious errors of judgement

except those who can't be tested because they just weren't there.

And presumably, you forgave Hillary for it. Unless you voted third party or did not vote.

but I did not vote for Hillary in the primaries BECAUSE OF HER IWR VOTE - I don't give people a pass for that kind of garbage

The NYT in particular. It was a gross time.

hunches over, leans forward and points his finger while he does it.

Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq

it absolutely sickens me to this day that so few people had to courage to call out that utter bullshit for what it was....people still die EVERY DAY because of that garbage

Politicians felt forced to vote a certain way, even though it was pretty clearly wrong.

Same old story.

absolutely

Nobody but nobody in my circle at that time believed a word of that shit....

I doubt Powell really did either...

Apparently 62% of the country favored going into Iraq just before the war started.

My recollection was that almost everyone voted for the resolution, but that wasn't accurate. It passed the House by a vote of 296-133, and the Senate by 77-23.

If you remember life in 2003. 16 years ago - too much hindsight.

It is also the support of NAFTA, the repeal of Glass Stegall , The support of the Bankruptcy Bill , The Crime Bill (which Bernie improvidently supported) …..This is not about personalities, nor about bashing one candidate at the expense of the other …. The Party must work on behalf of all the people - not just the super-wealthy donors who write the big, fat checks … . If not , we're not fit for purpose , and will be discarded accordingly …….. One Republican Party is enough

you know it

Do you really think the Iraq War is over? For everyone? Time to move on? Don’t comment on what happened and how? “Holy fucking shit” indeed.

nothing to see here, move along

It's called the Bernie Double Standard... it may be unfair, but the future President Sanders can handle ANYTHING!!


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

A responsible member of Congress doesn't undercut a president who is dealing with a murderous dictator who was in defiance of UN resolutions.

None of the Democrats who voted for the IWR wanted an invasion. They wanted to give Bush leverage against Saddam, unlike the isolationists and appeasers.

Some people seem to have never met a dictator they didn't like.

THEY LIED THEIR WAY INTO IT

and not complying with UN Resolutions.

Come on man!

do you REALLY think repukes cared about that? THEY LIED THEIR WAY INTO A WAR - STOP MAKING EXCUSES FOR THEM

President Obama evidently thought HRC and John Kerry made the right foreign policy decision as he made both Secretaries of State. And he selected Joe Biden as his VP.

I trust his judgement over yours.

SHAME on the people who lacked to the courage to do the right thing - I hope it weighs on their conscience but I highly doubt it.

DONE HERE

Appeasing dictators who gas their own citizens is a bad idea.

Ask Tulsi Gabbard.

We did not go there because Sadam had gassed his own citizens. Please don't make up some bullshit world police excuse for invading Iraq like the entire Republican party has been doing for nearly 20 years now.

Totally unwarranted.

Saddam had and used chemical weapons, that's not in dispute. He also failed to comply with UN resolutions around inspections.

Many Democrats supported the IWR in order to put pressure on Saddam to comply and as a way to avoid a war. Read the contemporaneous speeches of the time.

Why don't you "come on man!" Get real here, this war was bullshit from the start and the bloodthirsty dictator in question was one of ours until something close to a week before he invaded Kuwait, on our blessing I might add. Do you know anything of history of the region?

Do you?

Halabja was the largest chemical weapons attack on civilians ever.

Please cite the evidence that the US sold Saddam his chemical weapons, as that's utterly false.

Do you know anything of history of the region?

We didn't give him the weapons though.

nor did we help Saddam launch that attack.

There were some in Western governments--including ours--who tried to downplay the attacks, attempted to blame Iran, or otherwise tried to let Saddam off the hook (in much the same fashion that some have acted as apologists for Basher al-Assad and his chemical weapons attacks) and that is shameful.

And had prior knowlege on what he was going to do. Other Western powers (German companies I know specificaly) provided the means for manufacturing the chemical weapons.

Specifics on our role came to light with the release of CIA documents earlier this decade.

This is false. We did not provide the weapons or logistical support or any other type of encouragement for the Halabja chemical weapons massacre, nor did we have foreknowledge that it was doing to happen.

And it was vividly clear at the time that the Bush administration didn't just want 'leverage', they intended to invade.

Do you know how many murderous dictators there are around the world? Do you think Dick Cheney gave two craps about any dead Iraqis? Cheney was out to make his fortune on the spoils of war, and Bush was his little puppet. It's no coincidence that we attacked a murderous dictator who had a whole lot of oil in his country.

And do you know how many people were murdered after this particular dictator was taken down and could no longer protect them? He may have been awful, but he maintained a balance between the factions.

Many many thousands of Iraqis - and Americans - have lost their lives because of this vote. And it continues. I have students in my high school classes who are Iraqi refugees who fled the country after their fathers and uncles were murdered because they were working with the US to rebuild the country, and then we pulled out.

The invasion was the most horrific and destructive mess and it all could have been predicted and prevented.

that doesn't change the fact that leading "foreign policy" Democrats voted for the IRW resolution with the intention of providing Bush with the maximum leverage to force compliance with UN resolutions, in the hopes of avoiding war. Not to advance one.

Read the speech HRC gave as she cast her vote. Her reasoning is crystal clear.

And don't forget the 500,000-1,000,000 killed in wars started by Saddam. He was hardly a stabilizing influence in the region. His was a regime based on terror.

I won't defend the cocked up mess created by Bush/Cheney for an instance. The incompetence of this administration was mind-boggling.

and I support Biden. Pete served and I thank him for it. It's a primary and a valid point. Biden was a hawk. It was a catastrophic decision for America and fair game

LOVE how Democrats are defending the indefensible