Democratic Primaries

Uncle Joe

(58,372 posts) Tue Jan 7, 2020, 01:09 PM Jan 2020

Bernie Sanders is America's best hope for a sane foreign policy

In the American foreign policy discussion, socialists are often presented as gormless naifs — people whose utopian projects might sound good in theory, but who can't be trusted to exercise real power in a dangerous world. Only hard-nosed liberals or conservatives can make the tough decisions required to protect American interests.

Yet it is beyond question that, for at least the last 20 years now, American foreign policy has indeed been in the grips of starry-eyed utopian cranks — the imperialist variety, whose violent madcap schemes have unleashed hell across the globe, for no purpose or benefit to anyone but a narrow elite. Most recently, the supposedly anti-war President Trump has assassinated Iran's most important military leader under the delusional belief that it will somehow reduce instability and violence in the region.

Meanwhile, the 2020 presidential candidate with the most serious, realistic foreign policy agenda is the self-identified socialist, Bernie Sanders. Sanders promises the most stubborn confrontation with this lunatic militarism on offer, and the best possibility that America might become a responsible member of the international community.

(snip)

The last 20 years of American foreign policy have seen bloody bungling on a scale of Napoleon's invasion of Russia. A sensible, realistic approach would start by not doing that anymore. Bernie Sanders is the best choice to bring America back to its foreign policy senses.

https://theweek.com/articles/887731/bernie-sanders-americas-best-hope-sane-foreign-policy

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

40 replies

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Bernie Sanders is America's best hope for a sane foreign policy (Original Post) Uncle Joe Jan 2020 OP

According to whom? I'm not clicking the link. Please post the bylines of these articles, thanks. George II Jan 2020 #1

This author is nothing short of an anti-Democratic Party train-wreck. TidalWave46 Jan 2020 #4

Agreed. TwilightZone Jan 2020 #9

I don't know why we see articles like this posted without the byline or date. I suspect.... George II Jan 2020 #12

It is to flood forums and to build momentum going into the last day. TidalWave46 Jan 2020 #15

Brings to mind Newton's 1st Law of Motion from my Mechanical Engineering classes: George II Jan 2020 #16

Did Prof. Cornel West write that piece? oasis Jan 2020 #2

David Sirota? George II Jan 2020 #20

I don't think Bernie's isolationism and protectionism represents comradebillyboy Jan 2020 #3

In 2020, isolationism will only hurt the US & the rest of the free world. oldsoftie Jan 2020 #6

Or the 1910s, either. George II Jan 2020 #13

Nor do I. The Valley Below Jan 2020 #35

Thanks for posting this. Bernie is also the best hope for a climate change plan that works. Autumn Jan 2020 #5

Thank you Autumn and I believe Bernie's climate change plan Uncle Joe Jan 2020 #8

What Exactly Is His 3 Trillion Dollar Plan? Me. Jan 2020 #14

Here you go. Uncle Joe Jan 2020 #18

Exactly relayerbob Jan 2020 #21

Thank You Me. Jan 2020 #23

"100% renewable". Unless you use nuclear, thats simply not possible. oldsoftie Jan 2020 #32

No plans, no process of implementation, no detailed funding, just lots of "we have to...." George II Jan 2020 #19

Any of our candidates would return us to sanity on foreign policy. TwilightZone Jan 2020 #7

Sanders is for tariffs and treating poor foreign workers like scabs. Hoyt Jan 2020 #10

PLease Me. Jan 2020 #11

Again, ideas, not specific qualifications or experience, constitute his FP cred, but as in other emmaverybo Jan 2020 #17

If we're talking about the last 20 years Mr.Bill Jan 2020 #22

Oh, that's definitely his point. TwilightZone Jan 2020 #24

I agree...anyone fawning over a candidate makes me re think the candidate.. samnsara Jan 2020 #29

What foreign policy experience, sane or otherwise, can Bernie show for? beastie boy Jan 2020 #25

thats a mighty big claim... what experience does he have? samnsara Jan 2020 #26

He got some post offices named I believe still_one Jan 2020 #28

Opposed Russian sanctions? NurseJackie Jan 2020 #30

hmm, I suspect we could start a list of these foreign policy experiences still_one Jan 2020 #31

............................ still_one Jan 2020 #27

How many Senators did Sanders convince to vote against the Iraq war? brooklynite Jan 2020 #33

WITHOUT A DOUBT!! COMPARING BERNIE'S SUPERIOR VOTING RECORD TO JOE'S ON FOREIGN POLICY MATTERS... InAbLuEsTaTe Jan 2020 #34

Joe Biden speaks on Iran -- and bolsters his electability argument Gothmog Jan 2020 #36

The "adult in the room" Uncle Joe Jan 2020 #37

Biden Says 'Tweets, Threats, Tantrums' Won't Ease Iran Crisis Gothmog Jan 2020 #38

No actual rebuttal to my post eh? n/t Uncle Joe Jan 2020 #39

I was amused by this claim Gothmog Jan 2020 #40

George II

(67,782 posts)

1. According to whom? I'm not clicking the link. Please post the bylines of these articles, thanks.

Reply to Uncle Joe (Original post)

Tue Jan 7, 2020, 01:18 PM

Jan 2020

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

TidalWave46

(2,061 posts)

4. This author is nothing short of an anti-Democratic Party train-wreck.

Reply to George II (Reply #1)

Tue Jan 7, 2020, 01:27 PM

Jan 2020

Here are a couple of his article headlines -

Pete Buttigieg endorses corruption

Democrats are sleepwalking into a Biden disaster

Democrats made impeachment a snoozer. Big mistake.

What McKinsey really suggests about Pete Buttigieg <- You should see the doctored photo of Mayor Pete used with this one. Made him out to look as evil as possible.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

TwilightZone

(25,472 posts)

9. Agreed.

Reply to TidalWave46 (Reply #4)

Tue Jan 7, 2020, 01:34 PM

Jan 2020

In "The Obama legacy is not what many liberals think", he pontificates about the "disastrous failures" of the Obama administration.

Pass.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

George II

(67,782 posts)

12. I don't know why we see articles like this posted without the byline or date. I suspect....

Reply to TidalWave46 (Reply #4)

Tue Jan 7, 2020, 01:41 PM

Jan 2020

....it's intentional.

Yesterday we saw an article (undated) about an endorsement that was issued back on December 26. What's the point of this deception?

Any time I post an article I post the date it appeared and the name of the person who wrote it. It's simple, and common courtesy.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

TidalWave46

(2,061 posts)

15. It is to flood forums and to build momentum going into the last day.

Reply to George II (Reply #12)

Tue Jan 7, 2020, 01:42 PM

Jan 2020

Some might see it as insignificant. Others see it as their job.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

George II

(67,782 posts)

16. Brings to mind Newton's 1st Law of Motion from my Mechanical Engineering classes:

Reply to TidalWave46 (Reply #15)

Tue Jan 7, 2020, 01:48 PM

Jan 2020

A body at rest will remain at rest, and momentum can only build on a body that is in motion.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

oasis

(49,393 posts)

2. Did Prof. Cornel West write that piece?

Reply to Uncle Joe (Original post)

Tue Jan 7, 2020, 01:24 PM

Jan 2020

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

George II

(67,782 posts)

20. David Sirota?

Reply to oasis (Reply #2)

Tue Jan 7, 2020, 01:55 PM

Jan 2020

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

comradebillyboy

(10,155 posts)

3. I don't think Bernie's isolationism and protectionism represents

Reply to Uncle Joe (Original post)

Tue Jan 7, 2020, 01:26 PM

Jan 2020

a sound foreign policy. His Iraq vote doesn't qualify as foreign policy experience.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

oldsoftie

(12,558 posts)

6. In 2020, isolationism will only hurt the US & the rest of the free world.

Reply to comradebillyboy (Reply #3)

Tue Jan 7, 2020, 01:30 PM

Jan 2020

It didnt work out well in the 1930s; it would cause even more instability today

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

George II

(67,782 posts)

13. Or the 1910s, either.

Reply to oldsoftie (Reply #6)

Tue Jan 7, 2020, 01:42 PM

Jan 2020

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)

35. Nor do I.

Reply to comradebillyboy (Reply #3)

Tue Jan 7, 2020, 03:24 PM

Jan 2020

Russia and China would happily fill the vacuum of American withdrawal from the world stage.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

Autumn

(45,114 posts)

5. Thanks for posting this. Bernie is also the best hope for a climate change plan that works.

Reply to Uncle Joe (Original post)

Tue Jan 7, 2020, 01:29 PM

Jan 2020

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

Uncle Joe

(58,372 posts)

8. Thank you Autumn and I believe Bernie's climate change plan

Reply to Autumn (Reply #5)

Tue Jan 7, 2020, 01:34 PM

Jan 2020

to be an intricate part of his foreign policy goals/ideals.

Having the world come together for a change to fight our common enemy of global warming climate change instead of destroying life as we know it.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

Me.

(35,454 posts)

14. What Exactly Is His 3 Trillion Dollar Plan?

Reply to Uncle Joe (Reply #8)

Tue Jan 7, 2020, 01:42 PM

Jan 2020

I googled and got lots of aims/goals but no hows.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

Uncle Joe

(58,372 posts)

18. Here you go.

Reply to Me. (Reply #14)

Tue Jan 7, 2020, 01:50 PM

Jan 2020

Transform our energy system to 100 percent renewable energy and create 20 million jobs needed to solve the climate crisis.
Ensure a just transition for communities and workers, including fossil fuel workers.
Ensure justice for frontline communities, especially under-resourced groups, communities of color, Native Americans, people with disabilities, children and the elderly.
Save American families money with investments in weatherization, public transportation, modern infrastructure and high-speed broadband.
Commit to reducing emissions throughout the world, including providing $200 billion to the Green Climate Fund, rejoining the Paris Agreement, and reasserting the United States’ leadership in the global fight against climate change.
Invest in conservation and public lands to heal our soils, forests, and prairie lands.
End the greed of the fossil fuel industry and hold them accountable.

(snip)

https://berniesanders.com/en/issues/green-new-deal/

Details and much more information is on the link.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

relayerbob

(6,545 posts)

21. Exactly

Reply to Uncle Joe (Reply #18)

Tue Jan 7, 2020, 01:57 PM

Jan 2020

Not a specific item in there. Lots of hand-waving, no answers

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

Me.

(35,454 posts)

23. Thank You

Reply to Uncle Joe (Reply #18)

Tue Jan 7, 2020, 02:07 PM

Jan 2020

It's a start but still short on how... for instance..."Ensure a just transition for communities and workers, including fossil fuel workers. Ensure justice for frontline communities, especially under-resourced groups, communities of color, Native Americans, people with disabilities, children and the elderly." How do you ensure these aims/goals.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

oldsoftie

(12,558 posts)

32. "100% renewable". Unless you use nuclear, thats simply not possible.

Reply to Uncle Joe (Reply #18)

Tue Jan 7, 2020, 02:41 PM

Jan 2020

Its time everyone started living in the real world.
But that wont happen

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

George II

(67,782 posts)

19. No plans, no process of implementation, no detailed funding, just lots of "we have to...."

Reply to Me. (Reply #14)

Tue Jan 7, 2020, 01:53 PM

Jan 2020

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

TwilightZone

(25,472 posts)

7. Any of our candidates would return us to sanity on foreign policy.

Reply to Uncle Joe (Original post)

Tue Jan 7, 2020, 01:32 PM

Jan 2020

Warren, for example, wants to reduce the US military's role in the world to significantly cut the military budget, in part to pay for her social program proposals. Her plans for doing so are arguably more transformational than Sanders'.

The author of the piece also appears to be a bit, shall we say, biased. His recent "work" includes gems like "Pete Buttigieg endorses corruption" and "The Obama legacy is not what many liberals think" in which he opines about the "disastrous failures" of the Obama administration.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)

10. Sanders is for tariffs and treating poor foreign workers like scabs.

Reply to Uncle Joe (Original post)

Tue Jan 7, 2020, 01:38 PM

Jan 2020

America First is not going to soothe the waters.

I’m fine with significantly reducing troops abroad, though.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

Me.

(35,454 posts)

11. PLease

Reply to Uncle Joe (Original post)

Tue Jan 7, 2020, 01:39 PM

Jan 2020

enough with the unproven hyperbole

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

emmaverybo

(8,144 posts)

17. Again, ideas, not specific qualifications or experience, constitute his FP cred, but as in other

Reply to Uncle Joe (Original post)

Tue Jan 7, 2020, 01:49 PM

Jan 2020

areas, his ideas are not always sound ones, nor are they those a majority of Americans will endorse in the GE.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

Mr.Bill

(24,305 posts)

22. If we're talking about the last 20 years

Reply to Uncle Joe (Original post)

Tue Jan 7, 2020, 02:00 PM

Jan 2020

it's a thinly veiled attack on President Obama.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

TwilightZone

(25,472 posts)

24. Oh, that's definitely his point.

Reply to Mr.Bill (Reply #22)

Tue Jan 7, 2020, 02:11 PM

Jan 2020

The same author wrote an article titled "The Obama legacy is not what many liberals think", in which he opines about the "disastrous failures" of the Obama admin.

The guy's not on our side, his fawning over Sanders notwithstanding.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

samnsara

(17,623 posts)

29. I agree...anyone fawning over a candidate makes me re think the candidate..

Reply to TwilightZone (Reply #24)

Tue Jan 7, 2020, 02:25 PM

Jan 2020

..i look for calm collected followers who can quietly prove a point....i feel thats reflective of the candidate they support.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

beastie boy

(9,378 posts)

25. What foreign policy experience, sane or otherwise, can Bernie show for?

Reply to Uncle Joe (Original post)

Tue Jan 7, 2020, 02:19 PM

Jan 2020

Caution: being super popular in Vermont doesn't count.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

samnsara

(17,623 posts)

26. thats a mighty big claim... what experience does he have?

Reply to Uncle Joe (Original post)

Tue Jan 7, 2020, 02:22 PM

Jan 2020

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

still_one

(92,273 posts)

28. He got some post offices named I believe

Reply to samnsara (Reply #26)

Tue Jan 7, 2020, 02:25 PM

Jan 2020

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)

30. Opposed Russian sanctions?

Reply to still_one (Reply #28)

Tue Jan 7, 2020, 02:27 PM

Jan 2020

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

still_one

(92,273 posts)

31. hmm, I suspect we could start a list of these foreign policy experiences

Reply to NurseJackie (Reply #30)

Tue Jan 7, 2020, 02:28 PM

Jan 2020

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

still_one

(92,273 posts)

27. ............................

Reply to Uncle Joe (Original post)

Tue Jan 7, 2020, 02:24 PM

Jan 2020

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

brooklynite

(94,624 posts)

33. How many Senators did Sanders convince to vote against the Iraq war?

Reply to Uncle Joe (Original post)

Tue Jan 7, 2020, 02:44 PM

Jan 2020

"Being right" isn't the same as being effective.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,122 posts)

34. WITHOUT A DOUBT!! COMPARING BERNIE'S SUPERIOR VOTING RECORD TO JOE'S ON FOREIGN POLICY MATTERS...

Reply to Uncle Joe (Original post)

Tue Jan 7, 2020, 02:47 PM

Jan 2020

IT'S NOT EVEN CLOSE... BERNIE COMES OUT ON TOP!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

Gothmog

(145,374 posts)

36. Joe Biden speaks on Iran -- and bolsters his electability argument

Reply to Uncle Joe (Original post)

Tue Jan 7, 2020, 04:17 PM

Jan 2020

Link to tweet

Biden is the only person who can deal with the mess created by trump https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/01/07/joe-biden-speaks-iran-bolsters-his-electability-argument/

It is not unusual that a presidential incumbent has a campaign advantage in his second election. President Barack Obama’s supporters liked to say, “GM is alive and Osama bin Laden is dead.” To beat an incumbent president, a rare historical occurrence, the challenger’s foreign policy bona fides must be solid, especially when troops are deployed around the world.

That is the considerable advantage that former vice president Joe Biden has in the Democratic primary race against contenders with little foreign policy experience or with irresponsible, extreme views that put off a lot of voters. In New York on Tuesday, Biden delivered remarks seeking to capitalize on that advantage.

“Make no mistake: this outcome of strategic setbacks, heightened threats, chants of “Death to America” once more echoing across the Middle East, Iran and its allies vowing revenge — this was avoidable,” he said. “The seeds of these dangers were planted by Donald Trump himself on May 8, 2018 — the day he tore up the Iran nuclear deal, against the advice of his own top national security advisers.” Biden argued that the trouble started “the day [Trump] turned his back on our closest European allies and decided it was more important to him to destroy any progress made by the Obama-Biden administration than build on it to create a better, safer world.”

Biden’s argument is that careful diplomacy and measured use of force had kept Iran at bay. Now, however, “a president who says he wants to end endless war in the Middle East is bringing us dangerously close to starting a new one,” Biden warned. “A president, who says he wants out of the region, sends more than 18,000 additional troops to deal with a crisis of his own making. And an administration that claims its actions have made Americans safer in the same breath urges them to leave Iraq because of increased danger.”....

If Biden’s aim was to sound like the adult in the room, the one with every ally on speed dial, he largely succeeded. He will benefit in making a clear distinction between himself and candidates who promise to bug out of the Middle East immediately or sound as though they are making excuses for an evil regime. Biden understands that average Americans do not want a war with Iran, but neither do they want to feel as though the terrorists have free reign. Just as in health care — as Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) recently learned from her fumble on Medicare-for-all — Democratic candidates who get themselves too far to the left on matters of war and peace risk viability in the general election. Biden — who boasts the biggest lead over Trump in head-to-head matchups, according to the latest Morning Consult poll — seems to understand this. Whether the others do will determine whether their electability argument collapses.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

Uncle Joe

(58,372 posts)

37. The "adult in the room"

Reply to Gothmog (Reply #36)

Tue Jan 7, 2020, 05:01 PM

Jan 2020

voted to give authorization to wage war in Iraq in the first place.

Subject to the preceding condition Trump probably wouldn't be in power much less have assassinated the Iranian general if we weren't there in the first place.

In regards to "electibility" Bernie Sanders has beaten Trump in 98% of head to head to polls since 2016.

Furthermore why does anyone believe people in the Middle East shout "death to America?"

Could it have anything to do with seeing their families, friends and nation being bombed into oblivion without regard to their feelings?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

Gothmog

(145,374 posts)

38. Biden Says 'Tweets, Threats, Tantrums' Won't Ease Iran Crisis

Reply to Uncle Joe (Reply #37)

Tue Jan 7, 2020, 05:11 PM

Jan 2020

Link to tweet

Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden called Tuesday on President Donald Trump to return to diplomacy to ease rising tensions with Iran and urged the president to explain why he’s chosen to escalate a situation that had for months appeared relatively calm.

“The only way out of this crisis is through diplomacy -- clear eyed, hard-nosed diplomacy grounded in a strategy that’s not about one-off decisions and one-upsmanship,” Biden said.

With less than four weeks until the Iowa caucus, Biden’s quickly organized speech in New York was a chance for him to show off his deep knowledge of international issues and to demonstrate to voters that he has leadership qualities he believes the president lacks. Polls suggest Democratic voters think he possesses those qualities more than his rivals for the nomination.

Subdued and reading from a TelePrompter, the former vice president spoke in detail about Middle East policy and the traditional cooperation between the White House and Congress.

“No one wants war. But it’s going to take hard work to make sure we don’t end up there by accident.”

The former vice president said he knew that Trump wouldn’t listen to his advice but said he hoped the president would listen to top national security officials and find a way to back away from his “tweets, threats and tantrums” of the past week. He urged Trump to reach out to European allies and to signal privately to Iran that the U.S. is still open to a diplomatic resolution.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden