or supporter. I doubt anyone would dismiss that as no big deal as you seem to be. If this woman is telling anything remotely like the truth about Biden's behavior it is disqualifying in my mind. Just like it would be if Mayor Pete had done it to a male.

on the back of a man's head, then he shouldn't do it to a woman, either; no matter how young or cute he thinks she is.

One might be a misunderstanding. But we won't accept more than 2 or 3 stories like this. And there's more than that out there.

On edit: I take no position on the truth or falsehood of this allegation. I am just noting stories like this have taken down other men.

That’s all I’m saying.

The first reason is that he is a master at the art of deflection. Whenever something negative comes out about him, he lies, he attacks, he distracts, he bangs the table and doesn't stop until the media turns their attention to some other issue. Doesn't even matter if it's one of his scandals, or someone else's. As long as he can change the subject, he's good, and he always can change the subject.

The second reason is that Republican voters are much less concerned about this than Democratic voters. We've seen that play out. We do hold our nominees to a higher standard, at least at this since #metoo. It's just unfortunate for Biden that his past behavior was once deemed acceptable (rightly or wrongly), but is not acceptable anymore.

Shameless plug for Buttigieg. He has his own "scandal" but the dynamics work in his favor. First, his issue is no bar for Democratic primary voters. Second, he has his own method of deflecting, I've seen it. His is a positive method, he turns negatives into positives then pivots to shared values and real issues.

We are better than them.

There will be one after another coming out, and all the times he's done something similar that was caught on camera will be rehashed. It's not going to be pretty.

You can see plenty of Biden and this on youtube.

...with reality here, and be prepared to defend him or simply accept that his time has come and gone.

roguish "Uncle Joe" figure who has our back and is on our side and haha he sure appreciates a beautiful woman!

But I don't want that guy to be president.

who don't consider Gillibrand because she led the charge against Senator Al Franken.

I thought it was pertinent, too.

Nevermind. Just Googled it. She's a massive BS supporter.

I'll remain neutral for now. Everybody recalls events differently. IMO Biden's a good guy and I'm assuming she's a good person as well.

I'm moving on and ordering a burger here.

When you are accusing someone. I can claim any impact. Let’s not let people just make a claim of wrongdoing without wrongful intent by the person accused. That could happen to you. Imagine being accused like that and it being g accepted you meant no wrong! But yet you are because someone else says so. That would allow manipulation and add fuel to the MRA movement.

Doing wrong should not have the burden of proof on bad intent. Some people attribute the worst possible intent to others all the time. We’d all be miserable if we let them rule us.

Characterizing/linking this incident to “assaults” by bringing up the infrequency of false reporting of assaults is a little OTT

Biden’s a hugger. He hugs men, he hugs women.

He should def back off on that. He could hug me anytime and I would hug him back harder. But not everybody feels that way. So he needs to back off.

Insinuating he’s an ‘sexual predator’ or ‘pervert’ or ‘rapist’ by practicing extreme hyperbole probably isn’t going to fly.

(Not saying you are doing that (other than the questionable assault thing) but we know this language is going to bandied about Twitter who don’t necessarily care what damage the do.

I understand you don’t want Biden to be the nominee. Maybe let’s all talk about policy and talk about why our chosen candidates are great.

or a salesman who came into your office to sell something, would that be a nothing burger, too?

This isn't about the maliciousness of the grabber, nuzzler, or kisser -- it's about crossing personal boundaries.

One specific person. Apples to oranges. Massive overreaction to this. Berners loving it.

If most of them choose to remain silent or back him up, he could survive, but if the floodgates open, it's hard to see how Democratic voters would ignore it.

"Ash Carter later said that he laughed about the incident and said that he and Stephanie were great friends with the Bidens:

“Oh, I laughed. I laughed. I laughed. They know each other extremely well, and we’re great friends with the Bidens,” he said in an interview with NBC’s Savannah Guthrie on the “Today” show. Carter was traveling to his high school alma mater for a speech on the future of the armed forces.

Carter’s wife later said she was not offended by the vice president putting his hands on her shoulders and whispering in her ear, but Biden’s actions drew close scrutiny on social media and late-night talk shows."

But, feel free to keep posting misleading nonsense. Heaven forbid that we look into something that was posted by that leader of journalistic integrity, Buzzfeed. Can't have that.

situation calls for a little more decorum -- and is also an example of how people are willing to make excuses for Joe being Joe. That makes it all the harder for someone to speak out about it, and makes the person who does look like a spoilsport.

Doubling down on the smearing after it has been debunked.

And I thought we only had to worry about Russians, fakebook and rethugs. This is an outrage smearing one of own with this manipulated BS induced BS. First Al Franken for no damn good reason and now this sh't. No sense asking ourselves why rethugs win!

that she wasn't offended -- but with no direct quote.

What would you expect her to say, with her husband working for the Obama administration? Do you really think she would have complained to a reporter about the VP her husband worked with?

Reminded me of dim son grabbing Angela Merkel, a couple of times, I think.

Some men really need to get a clue about observing personal boundaries.

It's not like it is a secret.

I started seeing their (heavily edited) clips back in 2017. They were implying that Biden is a pedo back then - the oldest political smear-job in the playbook. I guess he has graduated to serial groping now? Has he frequented any pizza joints lately?

Good to see the Bernie Bros (and bots) pushing this shit too. Keep it up guys and gals - Trump is gonna need all the help he can get.

"Ash Carter later said that he laughed about the incident and said that he and Stephanie were great friends with the Bidens:

“Oh, I laughed. I laughed. I laughed. They know each other extremely well, and we’re great friends with the Bidens,” he said in an interview with NBC’s Savannah Guthrie on the “Today” show. Carter was traveling to his high school alma mater for a speech on the future of the armed forces.

Carter’s wife later said she was not offended by the vice president putting his hands on her shoulders and whispering in her ear, but Biden’s actions drew close scrutiny on social media and late-night talk shows."

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/joe-biden-grope-photograph/

As to what the wife later said (not in quotes) have you never heard of a woman who wanted to smooth things over in an uncomfortable situation? What was she supposed to say to the media? I'm friends with Joe and his wife but I really wish he'd not man-handle me, especially when we're in a formal setting?

I don't know how anyone could look at that series of photos and not see an uncomfortable woman.

You claimed he barely knew her. That assertion is false. Now, you are making an assumption for which there is zero evidence and insisting that she just did it to appease the media.

I'd probably find that insulting were I her. But I don't presume to know how she feels about it.

When we start believing the right-wing spin on things, we lose. I'm not saying that none of the allegations against Biden are true, but this particular one was debunked a long time ago, though that hasn't stopped people on our side of the aisle from doubling down on it.

Have at it.

But I believe she might be as capable of a white lie as I am.

Surely you are not one of those “Snopes is lying propaganda” people I read about on the net.

As I say love your posts so I doubt you are that kind.

I stand by all the other things I said in my post there

Take care and

below is a pic with her husband . if someone didn't know who they were they might think he is creeping her out or something .

The videos of Biden nuzzling Stephanie Carter last more than 20 long seconds. She had plenty of time to compose herself and make herself look happy about the nuzzling, but she never did.

Biden was VP. Carter was lower on the hierarchy. What would most women do if their husband's BOSS was nuzzling them, given the power imbalance? What would you have expected Ashley to do? Slap Biden's face?

of the Carters, TwilightZone.

the part that tells about what Biden actually did?

I honestly don’t think there’s a skeevy bone in Joe’s body but he needs to come out and apologize for having unknowingly gotten too close and friendly with American women and made them uncomfortable. And he can promise to do better and follow through.

If we can’t apoligize and do better for what are clumsy and not threatening infractions we are doomed, because THEY don’t care.

Democrats whenever for whatever reason we can. Cuz we like trump so much.

But we need to find some tiny imperfection in all of them.

are willing to give Biden a pass on that.

get rid of the other candidates. The more we can get rid off, the more we help the republicans.

And no, sexual harassment isn't a "tiny imperfection". But if we can turn a tiny imperfection into sexual harassment...

would you consider it a tiny imperfection if a guy you didn't know came up behind you, sniffed your hair and kissed your head? I suspect if I did that to some male I would get cold cocked unless it was someone I had power over like Biden had over her.

that Biden would do that. He should not do such things. Even with the best of intentions. I wonder if he would have ruined her life in retaliation for protesting. Or get his lawyer to do a hush money deal.

but the fact is she is the one who had to wonder for more than academic reasons if he would if she is telling the truth.

or kiss a man on the top of the head?

When Biden does this to a woman he's not already close to, it's as inappropriate as if he did it with a man.

Go away, kid, your buggin' me!

on the tops of their heads?

It's just as inappropriate with women as it is with men.

has nothing to do with SEXUAL.

And if you don't think kissing a grown woman on the top of her head is sexual, then imagine Biden kissing a man on the top of his head.

offended and I believe Joe has very close friendships with all of the people pictured. Relationships and friendships between men and woman and men and men are hugely different in their interactions and it isn't rational or fair to equate the two. Joe Biden is a good man and smearing him like this is absolutely not justified or right. In our current environment, men need to give a wide berth and look away with any woman in close proximity or risk being accused of God knows what.

What would you expect her to do? And, no, he didn't have a "very close friendship" with her. He had just met her.

His behavior is inappropriate and you KNOW he wouldn't behave the same way with a male head of state. It's condescending and patronizing to do this with women.

No, men don't need to give a wide berth and look away from any women nearby. They just need to treat them as they would any male professional.

How come when George Bush gave Angela Merkel her shoulder rub, DUers instantly knew that was wrong -- and yet they let Biden get away with the same kind of thing and worse?

must be answered with an extreme absurd response lest accusations such as the one made about Joe Biden will continue.

Or, in the case of Angela Merkel, with an idiot US President who should have treated her as a peer. He wasn't going around the table rubbing men's shoulders -- only hers.

Yuck. And it's just as yucky when Biden behaves that way -- as he has all his life. It's just that, over the course of his life, more and more women have stopped putting up with it. He should have learned more than he did from Anita Hill and her complaints about Clarence Thomas.

Biden shouldn't get a pass because he "meant well." He should just keep his nose out of women's necks and hair, and not put his hands anywhere he wouldn't put them on a man. Better yet, confine himself to a handshake. Then he wouldn't make any more mistakes.

You have got this all wrong about Joe Biden.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/128742438

the young staffer by holding her and planting a kiss in her hair and basically treating her like a child he could comfort.

It obviously backfired -- as that behavior would for many, many, many women.

We don't want men in the workplace, or any men we are not close to, putting their hands on us, or their noses in our hair, or their mouths anywhere. Our bodies are not there for them to handle without permission, unless we are unconscious and need someone to render first aid.

Unless, of course, we are in a dating situation, when a man should still be very careful about reading the signals.

To you, maybe.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/128741986#post43

And the paraphrase is that she "was not offended." What would you expect a woman to say, whose husband worked for the Obama administration? In her place I wouldn't have said anything to the reporter either.

But her face in the photos says everything. Like Angela Merkel's when W tried to give her the shoulder rub.

Do you think she's too meek to have spoken up in her defense?

"going along to get along." And in a situation involving her husband's career, all the more so.

He's overly touchy feely for people these days. Though in some ways it seems people are hugging a lot more and you end up hugging relative strangers, albeit lightly.

Imagine if you had a boss or co-worker or male employee who behaved like he did, with you. Sticking his nose in your hair or your neck, sniffing you. Planting a kiss on your hair. Most people would not appreciate it.

But that is what Biden was doing, with women he encountered in the course of work.

I don't think he meant to make Lucy Flores or some other women uncomfortable, but he did. He was overly familiar in a way that was fairly common among men in his generation -- but even in a bygone era, it made women uncomfortable. I had a boss like that, who was good in every other way. I must have had a funny look on my face after he came up behind me one day, and put his hands somewhere, because I remember his secretary afterwards saying to me, "Don't worry about Lou. He's harmless. He's just affectionate."

That's how women reacted in those days. We were supposed to excuse men behaving like that as long as we thought they didn't mean us harm. It didn't matter how uncomfortable we felt with the over-familiarity. What was supposed to matter was only whether the man meant something bad by it.

Well, the #metoo era has awakened millions of women. Hopefully, more and more men, too.

Requires intent. Missteps are often made. Especially when people react as not expected. I’m not sure she is credible either. Bernie’s supporters can often be fanatical.

and without sensitivity.

For example, sticking his nose into the President of Brazil's hair. Give me a break. She smiled because she had to -- but he wasn't treating her with the dignity that she deserved.

As far as Flores is concerned, the reporter had seen emails she'd written about this years ago -- without coming forward to the press about it. So that gives her some added credibility.

it's insensitive and it's treating women as less-than. Biden doesn't nuzzle his nose into men's necks and hair. He shouldn't do that to women either.

There is nothing in her story that remotely says that.

He put his hands on his shoulders and kissed her on the back of her head while they were standing in line together.

Def inappropriate unless you are a close friend. Or a similarly physically affectionate person.

But to characterize that as “sexual harassment” seems really really hyperbolic i’m afraid.

If Biden can explain, apologize, defend or otherwise make it acceptable, then more power to him. He'll need that ability for the general because all this and more will be thrown at him, by the acknowledged king of negative campaigning and his hypnotized friends in the media.

And he needs to knock this stuff off if he hasn't already done so.

It just seems strange that when news comes out about him leading in a poll yesterday, suddenly somebody remembers something that happened 5 years ago.

And our ethics become our destruction.

We'll get dirt and coordinated attacks on all the candidates, or at least the ones in the lead. So I'm taking a practical rather than ethical view. It's coming anyway, so we just have to deal with it.

Would do it all in public with the cameras going. Adopting absurd right wing smears about other candidates does not help Bernie.