Of a male candidate, then kissed him?

I really cannot believe some of the excuses I am seeing here. And Biden is one of my top three. But this behavior, if true, is WAY out of line.

The cesspool of fake and doctored videos? That youtube?

lol, no.

And I'm aware of the prior allegations.

The "just look on Youtube" suggestion is usually made by right-wingers on social media. You know, the "creepy Joe" gang.

For the most part, it's a plethora of hacked-up videos that lack context, like the one people keep posting from TYT.

If that's your thing, you be you. I'll pass.

Yes he is older and perhaps doesn't realize that you just don't do this....but maybe that is the problem. I too cannot believe Dems are making excuses for him. Imagine if this came out about Trump or some other Republican....would you look the other way and dismiss it as boys will be boys?

I would think the proper response to seeing someone nervous is to perhaps talk to them, perhaps assure them it will be fine and maybe then squeeze their hand to give reassurance. What Biden did is creepy and he certainly would never do it to a guy, or I don't think he would.

Does his behavior knock him out of the running. No I do not think so, but to make excuses for his behavior is inexcusable. I am looking to see what his response is before making a decision about his character and if I can vote for him in the primary.

What a coincadence that she is on the board of Sander'so our revolution . Small world.

its outrageous. I call this out and somehow I am suggesting that all reassuring gestures should be illegal. The hamstering by some posters is simply astonishing

one only has to remember Joe Biden's interactions with all kinds of people...

there are plenty of photos of Biden hugging and kissing men, women and children...
just a couple

He's not kissing their heads.

See for yourself- with Eva Longoria in Nevada. http://www.zimbio.com/photos/Joe+Biden/Eva+Longoria/Joe+Biden+Eva+Longoria+Campaign+Nevada+Democrats/yQubdZkRW8_

He hugs men, but he doesn't nuzzle his nose into their necks or hair, and he doesn't kiss grown men on their heads, as Lucy Flores said he did to her.

It is no more acceptable for him to do that to women in the workplace than it is for any boss, co-worker, or employee. The fact that his workplace was in the Senate or WH or out in public doesn't make it okay.

and then give Joe a fair hearing to splain his side of the story. Seems only fair... except apparently for Al Franken (and Bernie, of course, were he to be accused of such wrongdoing.)


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

And if he were your boss, or your co-worker, or your employee, or just some salesman who came into your workplace for a meeting, how would you feel if he did that to you?

How would you feel if you were the new President of Brazil and he did that, and you had to act like that was just fine?

I don't know any women who would appreciate it. He thinks he's so special that women are flattered by the attention. Maybe some are. But his behavior is inappropriate. Period.

she said back of her head.

and search for Biden nuzzling.

This is the way Joe Biden operates; comforting, reassuring, supporting and the like. Like everything in America, the "me too-ism" has gone to the extreme and the absurd trying to seek revenge by take out as many men as possible; even those that have NOT acted inappropriately or sexually. Just because a man is accused, doesn't make it a fact. Just ask Al Franken and Justin Fairfax who were destroyed or attempted at being destroyed by extreme or absurd "me too-ism". Democrats need to stop destroying some of their BEST!

Just don’t fucking touch us. It’s not hard

It was Joe's sons funeral.



Then hugged him.



Is this wrong to show comfort?

And neither surprised the other by touching from behind, as Flores alleges.

showing Biden kissing girls who are squirming away, or nuzzling his nose into women's hair .

Pretty sure your comment is a dig.

PBO. Obama. My President. You seem to say I disrespect him by saying Obama. I don't and you don't know me.

Since his keynote speech...he had me. Yes, at first I thought he was running to soon. It didn't take me long to know it was the time, our time. I love that man and his family that brought peace and laughter into a White House built by slaves now housing our first black President.

I hosted the Obama Group here for years. We had to defend our President from slurs and...to put it simply hate. He was called, here on DU, a Piece of Shit Used Car Salesman. Massive thread. Hundreds of Recs....because he had the audacity to create the ACA that has improved healthcare for millions and said poster never took the time to research his own damn coverage before moving to another state.

I also think he is hot...



Any questions?

at that point. Were you there when he said that?

Nothing at all venal in that. The kiss (if real?) was not good move.

None of us (I'm pretty sure!) were there. Her account may be dead-on accurate, and it is possible that Biden is too handsy, "creepy" to some people.

But the fact that someone has motivation for publishing a skewed account means even more reason that corroboration is required.

And, IMO, any woman who supported elevating TRUMP to the presidency - or extending his term - sure has suspect perspectives, to me.

Sanders has surrounded himself with staff who helped TRUMP win in 2016. TRUMP was all about cramming through right wing judges to change the face of women's rights in this country FOR DECADES. No matter what happens in 2020.

Yeah, Flores' judgment is definitely suspect.

and started reading thread headlines about inappropriate touching.. and have been trying to figure out what happened .. reading half stories in one thread and then another..

It’s not April Fools Day yet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

And how did she know WHO it was, 'I felt two hands on my shoulders.' “Why is the vice-president of the United States touching me?”

...it's doesn't sound any better broken down like you have here.

article implied, which quoted selectively from Flores to try to make it sound as if Biden had sidled up to her and was behaving in a way that was meant as sexual and/or demeaning?

Hmmm?

Not what Flores described.

Heartwarming though; how I miss them...

...deny or confirm the report.

You might be on the right track doubting the inference she was making, but that's something she can easily clear up. It reads like inappropriate physical contact.

Might need to wait a couple of hours for this to either flesh out or, maybe, sizzle out.

didn’t process correctly, Biden kissing her neck

Who the fuck are you to tell a woman, or man for that matter, how to process an inappropriate kiss to the back of her neck

And I'm saying he probably kissed the top of her head given their height difference.

Which is a parental type of kiss. Which is again a type of reassurance.

As far as who I am to try to understand whether someone is processing a gesture correctly -- and bear in mind that Flores admitted her brain wasn't processing this -- I'm female, though I don't state that in my profile. I was attractive enough in my younger days to get hit on a lot.

And if I'd been nervously waiting to make an appearance onstage, taking deep breaths to calm myself, I would not for one second have misinterpreted Biden's gestures of reassurance as anything sexual or creepy or demeaning.

Nor did he kiss you; he kissed someone else and you are telling us that the someone else should react like you

You have no right to tell anyone how to react to something that happened to them, Jeebus!

Doesn't mean you get to speak for us all. She didn't "process" it incorrectly, she processed it the way SHE would. We're all different. Don't care if you are or were attractive and got hit on. Someone who isn't in your close circle touching you is going to be taken differently by different people.

The idea that a woman should be OK that a man like Joe Biden would want to "reassure" her with physical contact is the exact reason we're where we are now in the #metoo era.

It needs to be said. The idea that a man can approach a woman and put his hands on her without consent or kiss her anywhere without invitation is simply not acceptable.

that line floored me as well.

I could hardly fathom someone saying this

I like Joe. But he comes from an era that men pretty much did what ever and it was OK. He's a demonstrative kinda guy. There's pics of him being touchy feely with all sorts, men and women alike. Hell, I'm surprised there isn't something with Bernie being too huggy.
Doesn't make it any less wrong though and to suggest the WOMAN is wrong for feeling icky about being touched

hair is not reassuring. It's just not.

backstage, as she explained, and she obviously knew Biden was behind her.

And he didn't put his face in her hair. She said he "inhaled" her hair, but it's hard to know how to interpret that when she talks about not having washed her hair that day, was obviously self-conscious about that.

So she was standing there taking deep breaths, which to someone like Biden -- who was used to appearances and would also have seen plenty of stage fright in less experienced politicians -- would probably have looked like hyperventilating at the start of a panic attack.

So he put his hands on her shoulders and gave her a parental kiss on the top of her head.

And some people here think this should disqualify him from running for president?

For me, yes. Embracing and kissing someone who is appears nervous *without checking in with them* is at best boorish and at worst a violation. Treating an adult woman of 35 with "parental" solicitude is patronizing and shows poor judgment, no matter how old you are.

I like Joe Biden a lot. I don't think he should be the nominee.

I am also a smeller. If I like the smell of someone in a store I comment, the ups guy, I will comment. I also will follow them for a few feet if it smells really divine. I will touch someone if I think they are distraught or nervous.

Some people don't like to be touched BUT if the person being touched says NOTHING then they can't squak later when it suits their agenda.

I am not talking about grabbing private parts, I am talking about innocent touching. Kind, considerate, compassionate touch of the arm, shoulder, pat on the head, kiss on the head. I am screwed, I have kissed kids on the head that weren't mine either.

agenda."

It's very common that people don't feel like they can rock the boat in the moment, or that something is so bizarre they freeze until it's over, whether it's an unwanted touch or a sexual assault.

have even kissed men on the head as well as women.


Yesterday I did kiss a little one about 4 yrs old that I didn't even know. Not only that, I chased him down the block and picked him up and hugged and kissed him while I COMFORTED him while he was screaming, crying and outright terrified. If you want to know that story I will tell you.

You missed a large part of what I said about being compassionate and all that...

Teaching consent starts early, and is the compassionate thing to do.

is making your child show affection or receive affection when they don't want to.

body autonomy


lots of other reasons, but that's the biggest one

... to be physically affectionate is, I believe, a good thing.

My family of boys were raised to be affectionate, loving,proud of family and friends!

Most kids are hesitant when they are young. Others are not.

Yes I did that . While I was hugging him and kissing him. If you want to know why I will tell you.

Edited to add that I did not know this kid. He was a stranger.

And I’ll continue to insist that learning, understanding and respecting consent is important at every age.

But before I tell you that story let me get this straight for you. I am not a perv. I can tell when a child is timid or does not like to be touched. I can also tell when a child NEEDS to be hugged or touched. Thank you for your continued insistence that I need to get that into my head.

So the kid I ran and grabbed today...(the one you claim I told you about) should I have asked him if he wanted the truck to hit him? Should I have asked him if he wanted me to throw him off to the side of the road or grab him and run? After that should I have asked him for consent to hug him? His parents sure seemed mighty grateful.

the story of the child you hugged today, in direct response to that poster. So yeah, you did tell them twice.
Maybe back off the "drunken ex spouse" insult. It doesn't sound like something a "compassionate" person would say.

And of course there are exceptions, such as emergencies. But if a stranger kissed my four-year-old after keeping them from running into the road, I would have a problem with it, and in a quieter moment would talk to my kid about it.

Part of this certainly comes down to personality, how we were raised and the larger culture. But as in all things cultural, it's the responsibility of the more-touchy people to respect the boundaries of less-touchy ones, and not make assumptions about what others find okay. When you want to express affection or comfort through touch, even if you think you can tell when a child needs it, it is best to ask to also express respect.

But thank you very much for looking out for a small one. Most normal people do just that!

That type of behavior is considered molestation.

and usually decide, for various reasons, not to make an issue of it -- especially when the man involved is more powerful than they are.

That doesn't mean a woman can't EVER come forward, after she's had time to process how it affected her.

At work, do you kiss MEN on the top of their heads or nuzzle your nose into their necks or their hair? Well, Joe shouldn't either. When he's touching women in public, he's at work.

Both a hugger and toucher. I have yet to have anyone misinterpret what I mean.

That story, years later, especially when he backed her run for office tells more about her than Biden.

cheated on all three.

In his own words he is a groper.

Biden is married,happily for the second time because his wife and child died in an accident. He is a loving family man, caring and considerate.

He could hug me. I would not let that obese,orange haired slug come any where near me!

Does that answer your question?

Lucy Florez.

to be at least a bit skeptical.

But I'm trying to give both Flores and Biden the benefit of the doubt.

I'm NOT questioning that Biden could've put his hands on her shoulders and kissed the top of her head.

But once I saw that paragraph from the original article that started this, the bit about her taking deep breaths, it seemed pretty obvious that she would have seemed very nervous to the more experienced public figures and politicos around her. And Biden was just trying to reassure her. With her taking it the wrong way and feeling embarrassed, in part because he was that close and she hadn't washed her hair.

points, highplainsdem.

I have other reasons for being skeptical of Lucy Florez.

Than skeptical. I think she has a vivid imagination years later. There is nothing about Joe groping, maybe because there are witnesses all over , including Secret Service.

There are tons of photos of Biden doing the same thing to other women. I have often thought his behavior was inappropriate. The evidence is all over the internet.

No, rather, I stand with Lucy and the #MeToo movement. I believe her... that is, unless and until the evidence shows otherwise. That's previously why Joe has a right to a defense of his behavior... let's give him a chance to splain himself and hear the man out. This shouldn't be turned into an Al Franken redux.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

Someone with a personal vendetta is out to smear Joe. Cacamamee.

is in full swing .... but questions will be raised about why, how, who and when. We know the what. However, such smears don't appear in a vacuum.

"Biden spokesman Bill Russo said in a statement that the former vice president "was pleased" to support Flores and hold the event for her. "Neither then, nor in the years since, did he or the staff with him at the time have an inkling that Ms. Flores had been at any time uncomfortable, nor do they recall what she describes," Russo said.

"But Vice President Biden believes that Ms. Flores has every right to share her own recollection and reflections, and that it is a change for better in our society that she has the opportunity to do so," Russo continued. "He respects Ms. Flores as a strong and independent voice in our politics and wishes her only the best."

The spokesman quite clearly noted that neither Joe nor his staff recall the incident.

https://www.npr.org/2019/03/29/708232869/former-nevada-candidate-accuses-biden-of-unwanted-touching-which-he-doesnt-recal

He didn't want to crush the woman. The media will do it when they trace a straight line between Bernie, his consigliere Sirota and the woman.

Biden always has secret service around him ... he cannot get away with touchy-feely in public.

and listen to his defense of his behavior to accurately judge his demeanor and sincerity. I think that's only fair, since we must take Flores' accusations at face value.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

and no woman has come forward complaining except a Bernie devotee -- and who saw Bernie losing to Biden in EVERY poll.

Highly suspect. It doesn't pass the stink test.

At a public rally in front of cameras, supporters, family and friends. In a festive mood of celebration.

Al Franken also accused of grabbing a love handle while taking a picture.

Quit eating our own.

I knew this would come up. Biden is a touchy feely person but I really don't think there is anything sexual about it. We are going to the extreme on this. Why did she not tell him at the time she did not like it? He did not grope her or anything. If Trump gets another 4 years because of this I might just quit caring about politics all together. We have a man in the white house that's been accused of groping or sexual assault of almost 20 women and we are shooting ourselves in the foot over Biden touching shoulders and kissing the back of someone's head.

And I am still an undecided primary voter.

This is not an appropriate way to stand with a woman who is there to help get out the vote. http://www.zimbio.com/photos/Joe+Biden/Eva+Longoria/Joe+Biden+Eva+Longoria+Campaign+Nevada+Democrats/yQubdZkRW8_

I checked Google Images and found other photos of them from that event, and Longoria doesn't show the least sign of discomfort or unhappiness.

For that matter, just click on the Zimbio link you provided and then use the arrows to check the other photos of Biden with Longoria.

Or use this Zimbio link

http://www.zimbio.com/photos/Joe+Biden/Lucy+Flores/Joe+Biden+Eva+Longoria+Campaign+Nevada+Democrats/dJOB8kMj4lo

to check other photos of Biden with Flores, who looks very happy to have Biden there. This was onstage after the incident she said upset her.

If Joe Biden was polling at under 10%, I highly doubt this thread would even exist.

It is simply a sign of compassion. I have watched Joe reassure nervous people too many times.

That woman has built the story in her mind. Reminds me of the imagining in a Romance novel.

Joe was trying to be nice. But after reading about who she supports with all the people he has surrounded himself with, I can only say,Dismissed!

by anyone, male or female, family or stranger

Sex is the exception.

I don't mind animals licking or snuggling ...

There are people like Joe I've encountered. They're kind of touchy or huggy.
I prefer they didn't but always grin and bear it. I don't say anything. Might pull away a bit.
I just assume that is the way they are and I'm the way I am.
I kind of accept it.

What bothers me here is we risk hurting a good man.
I think we already hurt Al Franken this way.
If this carries on, you'll hurt Joe.

I do not think there's anything sinister here.
No more sinister that the fat, ugly aunt who used to do it to me or my grandmother and meant nothing sinister by it.
Often I see whole families like this - like to hug and exchange physical touching.
I'm not that way - not into it. I'd prefer to watch but not be touched.
I don't even like shaking hands.
So I identify with those who feel uncomfortable as I've felt the same.

But I worry that we might be killing a mockingbird here.
I like Joe. I probably always will. I'm not into this.

averse to being touched by friends or loved ones.

Anyone who expected sex from me after rejecting affectionate touch, would be in for a huge disappointment. To each his own.

though both Stephanie and Ash Carter have made it clear there was nothing offensive about it:

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/joe-biden-grope-photograph/