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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!
 

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,732 posts)
Sat Mar 30, 2019, 01:39 PM Mar 2019

Why not make a candidate spreadsheet with pros and cons for each?

I'm undecided and probably will stay that way for a while, although there are a few that I've ruled out for cumulative reasons and not on account of one single gaffe, misstatement or policy position I disagree with. You could do something like this (which are examples only and not intended to be comprehensive):

BIDEN

Pros: Name recognition, regular-guy image, vast experience, inspiring life story, association with Obama

Cons: Age, reputation for gaffes, Anita Hill, bankruptcy bill, tendency to be touchy/huggy made woman feel uncomfortable

BERNIE:

Pros: Name recognition, solid core of supporters, strong position on economic progressivism

Cons: Age, perception as divisive, weaker support among PoC, no tax returns yet

BETO

Pros: Attractive, charismatic, effective fund-raiser, good communicator

Cons: Light on substance so far, relatively little experience

BUTTIGIEG:

Pros: Excellent communicator, extremely intelligent, veteran

Cons: No federal experience, recently said something critical of Hillary

...And so forth.

Rather than knee-jerking over a gaffe or something somebody said they said or did, I want to collect information on each candidate as the election season progresses. I want to see how each candidate presents him/herself, how they answer debate questions, what they say during interviews, how they explain what they might have done in the past (policy positions, votes on legislation, etc.). I understand that none of them are perfect and that all of them at some point will have done or said something or voted in a way I dislike. I also understand that a politician will normally vote in accordance with the interests of his/her constituency, which might result in some votes I would take issue with. The longer someone has been in politics the more likely it is that there are things I can find fault over.

I also understand that these days there are many trolls and disruptors with varying agendas who will do their best to tear down each and every one of these candidates - we're seeing that here already - which is why it's so important to look at history and context and evaluate each one on the basis of an aggregation of everything they've done.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
23 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Why not make a candidate spreadsheet with pros and cons for each? (Original Post) The Velveteen Ocelot Mar 2019 OP
Then do it. Nt USALiberal Mar 2019 #1
I intend to - but it will reflect my own opinions The Velveteen Ocelot Mar 2019 #4
Sanders, con: NOT A DEMOCRAT! question everything Mar 2019 #2
This OP is about the concept, not the contents of the examples The Velveteen Ocelot Mar 2019 #3
My spreadsheet has one field...WHO CAN BEAT RUMP. nt UniteFightBack Mar 2019 #5
That would be the sum of the parts. The Velveteen Ocelot Mar 2019 #6
Not necessarily. nt UniteFightBack Mar 2019 #13
Agree. Electibility is the sum of everyone else's preferences Hortensis Mar 2019 #14
Oh come on! True Dough Mar 2019 #7
With columns for "the kind of people I identify with like/don't like him or her," Hortensis Mar 2019 #8
You left out a lot of pros for Biden Mario Luigi Mar 2019 #9
As I said, this was not intended as comprehensive, but only as The Velveteen Ocelot Mar 2019 #10
Good Idea Andy823 Mar 2019 #11
A lot of those quiz sites sort of do that. GreenPartyVoter Mar 2019 #12
A spreadsheet I guess might capture a tiny bit of what we're looking for, but to get that ... SWBTATTReg Mar 2019 #15
But you also have to evaluate whether that candidate will have the same effect The Velveteen Ocelot Mar 2019 #17
Of course. NT SWBTATTReg Mar 2019 #18
You will not be able to divine that from a spreadsheet Politicub Mar 2019 #22
That's true. But it helps you make a reasonable choice based on your own values The Velveteen Ocelot Mar 2019 #23
Pointless for me. Iggo Mar 2019 #16
I want one too Lithos Mar 2019 #19
Knock yourself out Politicub Mar 2019 #20
I have only two criteria, so it's not about pros and cons. marylandblue Mar 2019 #21
 

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,732 posts)
4. I intend to - but it will reflect my own opinions
Sat Mar 30, 2019, 02:04 PM
Mar 2019

and wouldn't necessarily be valid for other people. An attribute I consider to be negative might not be negative to someone else, and vice-versa.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

question everything

(47,486 posts)
2. Sanders, con: NOT A DEMOCRAT!
Sat Mar 30, 2019, 01:52 PM
Mar 2019

Yes, I will shout it. He is not a Democrat, never been a Democrat, has actively campaigned against Democratic candidates - why are many still support him?

Last week Peggy Noonan opined that he been elected, a Republican Congress would have put breaks on his "socialist" agenda. And, of course, we would have been spared pugnacious Trump.

I suppose I should regret my vote and support of Hillary.



If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,732 posts)
3. This OP is about the concept, not the contents of the examples
Sat Mar 30, 2019, 02:03 PM
Mar 2019

which were intended only as an illustration of how one might do it. You are, of course, free to list your own pros and cons.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

UniteFightBack

(8,231 posts)
5. My spreadsheet has one field...WHO CAN BEAT RUMP. nt
Sat Mar 30, 2019, 02:04 PM
Mar 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,732 posts)
6. That would be the sum of the parts.
Sat Mar 30, 2019, 02:06 PM
Mar 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
14. Agree. Electibility is the sum of everyone else's preferences
Sat Mar 30, 2019, 02:44 PM
Mar 2019

combined with the abilities of the candidate and his/her campaign to turn them into victory.

My spreadsheet would have that column highlighted and all the rest to remind me why and to keep them straight in my mind. Too many to remember just the names as it is. Except for a very few, inevitable duds, lucky us.

Speaking of, this is so different from 2016, when virtually no one could name even one of the 9 candidates the press didn't bother to cover before the DNC disqualified them from the debates. A couple of obvious duds just looking at the pictures there, but there must have been some good people, as now.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

True Dough

(17,305 posts)
7. Oh come on!
Sat Mar 30, 2019, 02:08 PM
Mar 2019

You give "attractive" to Beto and not Bernie?

So subjective! Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and all that.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
8. With columns for "the kind of people I identify with like/don't like him or her,"
Sat Mar 30, 2019, 02:13 PM
Mar 2019

"looks," "charisma," "says what I want to hear," "despises or likes Democrats," "sounds reassuringly or frighteningly authoritarian," "doesn't bore me by making me to listen to understand," "my personal friends like/don't like," "I heard something bad about him or her," "I never developed beyond adolescence and my parents do/don't like him"; in addition, of course, to objective factors like avowed positions and does/does not accept support from hostile foreign states?



According to political scientists, that first one is the first big cut for all candidates, everything else not mattering if that's definitive. So someone identifying with a fringe group with one candidate talking to them would only need one name and one column to check.

This could be very useful, though, for everyone identifying with the very large Democratic mainstream who wants to make sense of the almost too many choices to look at right now. I'm lazy and will read about all of them but mostly just wait until inevitable attrition takes a bunch of them out, or identifies who will be.

Right now, though, Georgia hasn't chosen a date for the primary vote, currently presumed to be with a big bloc of others on March 3. So there could conceivably be enough possibilities still in contention that I'll be doing just this.

Speaking of, here's the current states' primary vote schedule, subject to various changes between now and then though.

http://frontloading.blogspot.com/p/2020-presidential-primary-calendar.html

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Mario Luigi

(23 posts)
9. You left out a lot of pros for Biden
Sat Mar 30, 2019, 02:18 PM
Mar 2019

No word on his position on many issues.

Another pro: He's a Democrat.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,732 posts)
10. As I said, this was not intended as comprehensive, but only as
Sat Mar 30, 2019, 02:22 PM
Mar 2019

an off-the-top-of-my-head example of how one might make a candidate attribute spreadsheet. I wasn't intending to list all of everybody's pros or cons, nor was I intending to either promote or criticize any particular candidate.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Andy823

(11,495 posts)
11. Good Idea
Sat Mar 30, 2019, 02:26 PM
Mar 2019

For those who are, are have been, in the Senate or House, they voting record would help, and where they got their money.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

GreenPartyVoter

(72,377 posts)
12. A lot of those quiz sites sort of do that.
Sat Mar 30, 2019, 02:28 PM
Mar 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

SWBTATTReg

(22,130 posts)
15. A spreadsheet I guess might capture a tiny bit of what we're looking for, but to get that ...
Sat Mar 30, 2019, 04:06 PM
Mar 2019

'oh WOW' effect on a particular candidate? I think it happens when it happens and that's that. You can't measure it, etc., it just happens, kind of like when you run into that significant other that you been looking for all your life and then 'BAM!', the fireworks happen and you are in love for the rest of your life. An unique moment that can never be captured or analyzed, it just happens.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,732 posts)
17. But you also have to evaluate whether that candidate will have the same effect
Sat Mar 30, 2019, 04:35 PM
Mar 2019

on enough other voters to win an election. What might be a "wow" for you might not be enough for someone else unless that candidate also has some specific qualities, experience and policies that persuade them to vote for him/her. I gave up on falling in love with candidates a long time ago - most of the ones that wowed me didn't win. Now I'm looking for objective attributes that I believe will convince enough people to actually win.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Politicub

(12,165 posts)
22. You will not be able to divine that from a spreadsheet
Sat Mar 30, 2019, 05:19 PM
Mar 2019

No matter how comprehensive you make it.

Polls are an objective measure, but they won’t tell you who will win. Share of media coverage is interesting, too, but it won’t matter much to know unless you’re in charge of publicity for a campaign.

It may be a helpful tool for you, though.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,732 posts)
23. That's true. But it helps you make a reasonable choice based on your own values
Sat Mar 30, 2019, 05:25 PM
Mar 2019

and maybe you can better distinguish provable facts and rational observations vs. rumors, social media trolling and media bias.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Iggo

(47,558 posts)
16. Pointless for me.
Sat Mar 30, 2019, 04:18 PM
Mar 2019

I'm all about Pros this cycle.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Lithos

(26,403 posts)
19. I want one too
Sat Mar 30, 2019, 05:00 PM
Mar 2019

Something that the League of Women voters would/could put out which has their stance on issues. Do not want someone telling me about their charisma, electability, etc. - just the issues and positions they are taking and have taken (where relevant). I will handle their ability to implement their agenda (experience), any and all empathy and emotional appeal they may have.

L-

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Politicub

(12,165 posts)
20. Knock yourself out
Sat Mar 30, 2019, 05:11 PM
Mar 2019

It’s not something I would see as helpful, but others might.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

marylandblue

(12,344 posts)
21. I have only two criteria, so it's not about pros and cons.
Sat Mar 30, 2019, 05:15 PM
Mar 2019

Media skills, including mastery of twitter; and strategic vision.

Whichever candidate does these two things best gets my vote. So far, that's Buttigieg.

I don't care what anyone's cons are because no matter how many they have, they will be exploited to the max. If they have no cons, Trump will invent some.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
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