Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumWe need bold, sweeping change, an FDR type change. Elizabeth or Bernie are the only ones capable.
We don't need someone who thinks they need repub approval for things. Let's do this!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
sellitman
(11,607 posts)I think Yang would give tRump fits. I love his youth, enthusiasm and his ideas.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Sherman A1
(38,958 posts)and more!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,123 posts)Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,685 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Johnyawl
(3,205 posts)...and I think the only candidate who would have any coattails in the states we need is Biden.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,685 posts)isn't that popular...Biden would improve our chances.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LonePirate
(13,431 posts)Biden's agenda is pretty much the opposite of the massive change this country needs. Biden's agenda would have been great had he been running in 2016 but this is 2020 and we're dealing with an entirely different set of needs for the country - needs not solved by Biden's centrism.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)We need to build on the ACA, restore our standing with our allies, deal with income inequality and deal with climate change. Bernies MFA raises taxes for everyone and would give at least 45 states to Trump
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LonePirate
(13,431 posts)Last edited Mon Jan 20, 2020, 12:17 PM - Edit history (1)
The ACA does not need another addition. It needs to be replaced entirely with a single payer system, with current employer paid premiums and their current employee paid paycheck deductions - funding the lion's share. Many of Biden's supporters conveniently fail to mention because they are too busy promoting the Republican boogeyman of higher taxes. Biden has nothing to deal with income equality or climate change in the way that both serious items need to be addressed. Centrism is never the solution to domestic problems. Centrism is merely a continuation of what some consider idealism but in reality falls far short of the progress America needs.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
brutus smith
(685 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,685 posts)have is smart...insisting on M4A will cause us to lose health care completely. A public option and other 'fixes' we have a shot at ...but we will not get M4A through Congress. By repairing the ACA we can get to universal coverage...so that works for me.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,685 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
emmaverybo
(8,144 posts)program which stresses pre K through 12, the most crucial developmental stages for learning, is excellent. The public is much more attuned to his healthcare policy than to M4All and the suite of
plans, so terribly cost intensive, financially and politically, that Warren and Sanders propose, do nothing to fund, shore up, and protect the numerous entitlement and social programs at-risk throughout the nation. They also have little to zero chance of coming to fruition.
What does the world need? Surely not,at this perilous stage, a president without foreign policy and relations cred., deep knowledge, or experience. The possibility of a first nuclear war is an existential threat. The rise of anti-democratic, extreme right wing movements internationally is also a threat.
What America needs is stability, security, and doable policy. But America is not the planet. Domestic
economic policy is but one area in the full range of responsibilities a president will assume and her influence within it limited. Warren and Sanders could continue to lobby for change without assuming the presidency. Their efforts from the outside would likely effect as much change as either one could as a leader of the free world, commander-in-chief of a superpower among superpowers, a position for which by almost every measure Biden is far more prepared.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Dem4Life1102
(3,974 posts)Do you mean turning a blind eye to segregation & racism, interning American citizens, abandoning healthcare reform because its too difficult to get through Congress, setting the minimum age for Social Security above the average life expectancy and creating the military industrial complex?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
OKNancy
(41,832 posts)Truman finally did
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DURHAM D
(32,611 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
squirecam
(2,706 posts)Its better to have LBJ then FDR.
At least he got civil rights passed.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)FDR's programs worked for that time, that particular societal mindset, and that economic situation.
We need contemporary solutions that fit a time where you can't legally exclude women and POC from well paying federal work programs for the trades and decent paying jobs, or round up huge numbers of people in specific races in concentration camps, which had the effect keeping them out of the workforce, and out of competition with white business owners.
FDR accepted the anti-semitic fears of "Hitlers spies among the jews from Germany," and refused entry of thousands of Jewish refugees, sending many of them back to horrible deaths at the hands of the Third Reich.
POC kept quiet about these issues, because they wanted to be supportive of the war effort, and knew it would be pointless and dangerous to come across as unpatriotic.
If the federal FDR programs were benefitting them and if progressive economic policies ended bigotry and racism, there would not have been the garbage workers strike, continued segregation, and the civil rights movement shortly thereafter...
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
brutus smith
(685 posts)For so called Dems on here to nitpick what he didn't accomplish is ludicrous.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Dem4Life1102
(3,974 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
appalachiablue
(41,171 posts)the Great Depression, save capitalism or fight the Second World War with Europe to defeat fascism. FDR remains one of the top US presidents for good reason.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
brutus smith
(685 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
tirebiter
(2,539 posts)How about we choose the one he chose to be his second in command.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
tirebiter
(2,539 posts)We dont need so called Dems to lead us either. Sunshine patriots can be remfs.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
rwsanders
(2,606 posts)If he had been given the time to reflect in hindsight, he may have said that he would have done many of those things differently, but the book I read about him illustrated how he was narrowly focused on the economy before the war, and on winning the war while we were in it.
He was pragmatic, maybe to a fault, but did didn't want anything to hinder or detract from his primary focus. He was the one who presented the "4 Freedoms" and wanted a second bill of rights that went far beyond what any of his successors has been willing to promote.
https://www.amazon.com/Together-We-Cannot-Fail-Presidency/dp/B006J3XY4Q/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=FDR+with+CD&qid=1579558423&s=books&sr=1-5
Considering the challenges he faced, I'd say he was one of the top 3 presidents we've had. To me the only others that compare would be Washington and Lincoln.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Dem4Life1102
(3,974 posts)He was pragmatic and not ideological.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Kurt V.
(5,624 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
appalachiablue
(41,171 posts)or other Republicans or Democrats rather than FDR. Elected for 4 terms, President Roosevelt saved capitalism, turned around the Great Depression and fought with European allies to defeat the Nazis in World War II.
Without FDR there would be no modern Democratic Party, no Truman, no LBJ, an avid 'New Dealer' since his early legislative days, no JFK or Carter and beyond if the ultra conservative Republicans had gained control of all three branches of government in the 1930s. Or, if fascist forces had overtaken the government as many had planned in the late 1930s and 1940s.
Hence, no labor laws with minimum wage, overtime, 8- hour workday and weekends to protect workers, no Social Security, no strong banking reforms like the Glass-Stegall Act, no FHA to support home loans, no GI Bill for veterans, no national support for the arts and humanities, no civil rights movement and legislation, no women's movement, no environmental movement, no space program, no Medicare or Great Society programs to help poor and disadvantaged Americans, and more.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Dem4Life1102
(3,974 posts)But he wasnt perfect nor was he far left as some are trying to portray.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
brutus smith
(685 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Dem4Life1102
(3,974 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DownriverDem
(6,231 posts)We have to have a ticket that will appeal to the country next November. That means more than Democrats and left leaners. Biden can win enough states to beat trump. We can win with Biden and a strong progressive Democratic woman as VP. Harris or Abrams would be great picks. We can't blow this. Win first then push for the change we all so want.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Prosper
(761 posts)What change had Biden pushed for?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,123 posts)That's President Sanders and Vice-President Warren!! The only candidates that guarantee victory over PEE-resident tRump.
Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
OhZone
(3,212 posts)before he decided he had to experiment with some major things to fix the Great Depression?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)Meanwhile they (in league with far-right isolationists) opposed the US entry into the war against fascism.
Today we are being gaslighted as some try to claim FDR's mantle. People who are not like him in the slightest.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Thekaspervote
(32,794 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
dflprincess
(28,082 posts)a traitor to his class.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)and largely populists.
Thank goodness for a great liberal like Franklin Roosevelt who steered a course between unpleasant extremes!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
brutus smith
(685 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
brutus smith
(685 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)Socialism is the collective ownership of the means of production and distribution.
Calling Social Security "socialism" or "socialistic" is a right-wing talking point.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Prosper
(761 posts)Bernie is proposing capitalism. That is a system that made America great until the right wing financed an oligarchist transformation.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)For example, he's called for the seizure of an electric company without any compensation to the owners.
That's socialism.
Social Security is not socialism. Nor is roadbuilding, schools, police and fire, or any other government services.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Prosper
(761 posts)that with a past accusation.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Prosper
(761 posts)But he still has not proposed seizing privately owned property.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)Nothing is mixed up.
When Sanders says he's a socialist, he's not lying. It is his policy this campaign. See:
Bernie Sanders Calls To Seize the Means of Electricity Production
http://inthesetimes.com/article/22025/bernie-sanders-calls-to-seize-the-means-of-electricity-production-climate
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Prosper
(761 posts)I think the collective not for profit of any public service is the only way to go.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Prosper
(761 posts)That headline was written by Johanna Bozuwa and nowhere in that article did I see Bernie quoted as seizing that power company without compensation to owners.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Prosper
(761 posts)Samuel Goldman, assistant professor of political science at George Washington University, states that Sanders' platform is not socialist and is better described as "welfarism" reminiscent of the 1950s that aims to regulate rather than to replace capitalism. Goldman notes that Sanders does not advocate public ownership of the means of production nor does he seek to abolish the profit system, both of which Goldman considers to be defining characteristics of socialism.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Bernie_Sanders#Prior_to_elected_office
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
brutus smith
(685 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Scurrilous
(38,687 posts)<snip>
"Whats in a name? Franklin Delano Roosevelt called himself a Christian, a Democrat, and a liberal. He did not call himself a democratic socialist, or any other kind of socialist. He was, in fact, no socialist at all. Nor was he a conservative or a reactionary, although many on the socialist and communist left charged that he wasincluding the Communist Party USA, which attacked his New Deal for a time (until Moscows political line changed) as American masked fascization.
The only Americans who considered Franklin Roosevelt a socialist were right-wing Republicans. The New Deal is now undisguised state socialism, Senator Simeon D. Fess of Ohio declared in 1934. Roosevelt is a socialist, not a Democrat, Congressman Robert Rich of Pennsylvania announced on the House floor a year later. Roosevelt scoffed at such talk, but in 1939 he paused to present a very concise political dictionary of his own. A radical, he told the New York Herald Tribune, is a man with both feet firmly plantedin the air. A conservative, he continued, never learned to walk forward; a reactionary walked backward in his sleep. A liberal, though, used legs and hands at the behestat the commandof his head. The metaphor was poignant coming from him, but it also emphasized his point: In the face of all adversity, he was every inch a liberal."
<snip>
"The election of 2016 showed how confused these old labels and distinctions have become. The socialist senator Bernie Sanders, for example, rallying his supporters with a speech at Georgetown University in November 2015, offered a surprising definition of socialism, which consisted of a paean to FDR and the social protections ushered in by the New Deal. Almost everything he proposed, almost every program, every idea, was called socialist, Sanders saidas if the right-wing name-calling was the rightful definition.
Somewhere the ghost of FDR burst out laughing, while the ghost of one of Sanderss other heroes, Eugene V. Debs, scratched his head.
In a piece about that speech for The New Yorker, Jedediah Purdy remarked smartly on how Sanders, while waving the socialist banner and proclaiming a political revolution, consistently and conveniently defined his position from the right flank of history. That the economic royalists of the 1930s and their defenders called FDR a socialist evidently made it so. Never mind that the socialist leader Norman Thomas, when asked whether Roosevelt had carried out the Socialist Party platform, famously quipped that he had not, unless he carried it out on a stretcher.
https://democracyjournal.org/magazine/48/fighting-words/
https://democracyjournal.org/magazine/48/fighting-words/
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
snowybirdie
(5,237 posts)We need someone to fix what tRump has damaged. Not just another fight with repubs.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)elect a democrat to continue to progress, the Naders, Sarandons, Steins, Moores come out of the woodwork to insure that we get set back.
It is sort of like feeding a starving person a full course meal, only to get criticized because it didn't include caviar.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
brutus smith
(685 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)he could have taken bold, society changing actions and he shied away from them. Truman and LBJ were much better at doing needed, but unpopular with some people, reform. I am not trying to diminish FDR's accomplishments with the criticism, I am just pointing out that he was not a person that took bold action when the times were too difficult for them, whereas Truman and Johnson, who today's progressive view as less liberal, took bold actions in the face of real opposition, but they took the actions anyway because the initiatives were achievable and would have a large positive impact on the whole of society.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
brutus smith
(685 posts)Which Dem President didn't? Obama and Biden should have acted more boldly when we had a super majority.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)A couple of democratic Senators, the ones from Nebraska and North Dakota was weak on bold action, so in effect, President Obama never had remotely close to the super majority that FDR had (something like 70 Senators), so what President Obama could propose and get done had linits. But as things were, President Obama, Speaker Pelosi and Senate President Reid brought forth and got passed historic, never before done under any era legislation.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
blm
(113,092 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)But FDR had a robust super majority for several years.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
blm
(113,092 posts)passed away.
If you dont count days when Congress is not in session, there were only 24 days.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)race. 24 days is no time at all to form policy. Thanks for filling in my ignorance, maybe you, in the future, should respond to the people that claim that President Obama had a supermajority long enough to push through legistlation and chose not to.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
blm
(113,092 posts)👍🏼
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DURHAM D
(32,611 posts)Also, they would need an Eleanor to show them the right thing to do.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
beastie boy
(9,431 posts)Very few people give due (or any) credit to Eleanor when they talk about FDR.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DavidDvorkin
(19,486 posts)Losing in a landslide won't get us anywhere.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,123 posts)Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)We do need someone like that.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(58,421 posts)Thanks for the thread brutus smith.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
brutus smith
(685 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Locrian
(4,522 posts)BTW the conservatives and establishment HATED him.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot
Roosevelt's election was upsetting for many conservative businessmen of the time, as his "campaign promise that the government would provide jobs for all the unemployed had the perverse effect of creating a new wave of unemployment by businessmen frightened by fears of socialism and reckless government spending."[9] Some writers have said concerns over the gold standard were also involved; Jules Archer, in The Plot to Seize the White House, wrote that with the end of the gold standard, "conservative financiers were horrified. They viewed a currency not solidly backed by gold as inflationary, undermining both private and business fortunes and leading to national bankruptcy. Roosevelt was damned as a socialist or Communist out to destroy private enterprise by sapping the gold backing of wealth in order to subsidize the poor."[10]
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Progressive dog
(6,918 posts)change than the Constitution allows. FDR had super majorities and we still didn't get medicare for all, we didn't even get medicare. Bernie's progressive caucus has one Senate member and approximately 1/3 of house Democrats.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
beastie boy
(9,431 posts)come anywhere close running on their respective platforms?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Thekaspervote
(32,794 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
TexasTowelie
(112,433 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Last edited Sun Jan 19, 2020, 09:16 PM - Edit history (1)
Saving our democracy, as FDR and his broad coalition of voters did, is our first priority. Everything else depends on that.
FDR was a mainstream liberal Democrat ideologically, he and his voters were the mainstream "establishment." With the exception of Southern Democrats who moved to the Republican Party since, FDR Democrats then were exactly like those who are unifying in today's Democratic Party for this great battle to fight extremism and save our nation.
And together they all defeated the populists and extremist movements of those days, the RW fascists AND the LW socialists, and created the New Deal. The fascists AND socialists of those days despised the New Deal rescue and advances within what we'd always had, and they fought the New Deal with everything they had. And lost. Big.
Damned good thing too. You went to school. Liberal democracy committed to individual freedoms, including capitalism, won in our nation and those of our allies. After that, the surviving western liberal democracies became The Allies and fought great wars against those nations who had fallen to the socialist and fascist revolutions that destroyed them. Remember?
And here we are once again, and once again uniting to protect what we have and value and are in grave danger of losing. But not to Sanders, to RW authoritarian government.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
brutus smith
(685 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)the enemy we must defeat. Biden calls for us to unite to save our nation every day. The soul of our nation and that this election we must choose who we will be is the central theme of his candidacy.
If you don't know that about him, you also don't know why Joe Biden chose to run, right? He was CALLED to duty by the confluence of the enormous threat of a RW fascistic takeover, lead by the Republican Party as we watch, and his singular popularity across the nation. He beat all other candidates by dozens of points before he said a word about running or decided. And because we MUST beat Trump and the Republican Party, he stepped up.
You don't have to want Biden, but you should respect a man who would heroically sign up at his age for years of grimly constant and inescapable work. Inescapable for a responsible Democrat taking on the presidency at any time, but never more than now.
You should also realize what Biden's desire in 2015 to have a dynamic iconoclast like Elizabeth Warren for his VP workmate reveals about his goals for a presidency. You don't team with a Warren to run in place. The current mess creates great opportunities for needed repairs to take the form of advances. As the mess in the 1930s did. Warren and Klobuchar are both naturals to be a 21st century Frances Perkins to Biden's FDR.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,123 posts)Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
myohmy2
(3,176 posts)...
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Scurrilous
(38,687 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Skidmore
(37,364 posts)Wanting and getting are two quite different things.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
brutus smith
(685 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Scurrilous
(38,687 posts)Bernie wants Medicare for All which has to be voted on, Biden says strengthen the Affordable Care Act which has already passed.
Bernie says he'll pass an ambitious Green New Deal. Biden:
"Bidens climate plan includes executive orders to help curb emissions from oil and gas extraction and increase the energy efficiency of vehicles and buildings, among other goals. Biden, who has led Democratic primary polls since he entered the campaign, also vows to demand that Congress act on climate change during his first year in office and to hold them accountable if a bill doesnt pass."
https://apnews.com/9adf7f55aca24321b836aff887ba5cbc
He doesn't promise it will pass. Even says what he'll do if it doesn't .And so on.
https://ballotpedia.org/Joe_Biden_presidential_campaign,_2020
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Bernie Sanders Thinks He Can Win Over Trump Supporters in 2020
We have got to reach out to those people and we have to stand with them for decent jobs, decent health care, decent education and I think we can win many of them over, Sanders concluded at Town Hall.
Bernie Sanders Urges Democrats to Reach Out to Trump Supporters
Laura Ingraham Praises Bernie Sanders Speech in "Enemy Territory" at Liberty University
Bernie Sanders: Trump is on the right track with North Korea
Q&A: Bernie Sanders says Trump will be hard to beat, but he knows how to do it
..........................................................................
So to answer your question, I dont believe that the [way to win] this election is to just speak to Republican women in the suburbs. Thats one theory. And I think many of those women will vote for me because they are appalled, correctly so, about Trumps personal behavior and his temperament. I think we can win many of them.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
"We need bold, sweeping change"
...is Liz sweeping boldly enough?
...I don't think so...
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)...doesn't Senator Sanders deserve more from his supporters than that response to his record?....
...but continued. repeated evasion of the facts is certainly easier than actually addressing evidence that one's candidate isn't doing what one is demanding of others...
...isn't it?...
... ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
...are we talking about Bernie's record?
...a long whataboutism way to go to call the kettle black...
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)...well, then....
...
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)...and if she was a 'true progressive' she would have simply never run, and played cheerleader for Senator Sanders...
...so I hear...
...from people who supported her tooth and nail until the moment that she endorsed HRC...
...
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
myohmy2
(3,176 posts)...I like Liz too...
...but she ain't no Bernie...
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)...she has the confidence of her peers...
...and she's a Democrat...
....
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
...that she's a Democrat?
...not always...
...Bernie votes like a Democrat, caucuses like a Democrat, candidates like a Democrat, will President like a Democrat, so what's does that make Bernie?
..a Republican?...
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)...are you saying that Bernie doesn't know what he is or isn't?...or isn't being honest about it?....
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/329418-sanders-i-do-not-consider-myself-a-democrat
...You didn't respond to my evidence that "Bernie ain't no Liz" in that Warren has the deep respect of her peers, and influence far beyond career politicians who have been on the Hill for decades....
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/05/is-elizabeth-warren-an-effective-senator/449349/
...that would indicate that she's far, far more capable of actually getting progressive ideas into reality than any of those other career politicians who haven't got much to show for their decades on the Hill.
....Is that clearer?...
...really....
...why do you dislike politicians who are good at getting things done?...
...
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Bernie,
" If the Democratic Party is going to succeed and I want to see it succeed it's gonna have to open its door to independents," he continued. "There are probably more independents in this country than Democrats or Republicans. It's got to open its doors to working people and to young people, create a grassroots party. That's what we need."
...I think your path is clear...
...get a petition going to boot Bernie out of the Party...petition the Party to have 'Democrat' removed from his name on all ballots...have the DNC put out statements disavowing Bernie and everything he says or stands for...do what it takes (I'm no lawyer) to legally distance the Party from Bernie in all respects...
...you shouldn't whine about it...
...division serves no one but trump and maybe few others...
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)...no real defending your position about him against his own words....
....you shouldn't whine when someone points it out...
...or perhaps you don't think Bernie is being honest when he says that?...
...and you certainly don't shun "division" when it comes to candidates who identify as Democrats...
...one shouldn't whine about divisiion when one stokes it so happily...
...you should be grateful to the DNC for welcoming Bernie with open arms to run on our ticket, even when he clearly states "I don't consider myself a Democrat" and that he runs on the Democrat ticket, not because he wants to be a Democrat, because of media coverage and funding not available to an Independent....
...you should start a petition thanking the DNC for their generosity....
....
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to ehrnst (Reply #37)
Name removed Message auto-removed
Recursion
(56,582 posts)We just aren't in that kind of existential crisis right now. This is the best economy of my lifetime, and I remember the 1990s.
In 2016, we idiotically rolled over and agreed with Trump that the nation was facing a dire catastrophe. He's not going to do that for us, and we aren't going to win a "tear the system down" election with 3.8% unemployment and the highest household incomes in history.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
treestar
(82,383 posts)in both Houses. A super minority in the Senate is required. No POTUS is "capable" without that. If we had that, Biden or Buttigieg or Klobuchar would sign the same bills Sanders or Warren would.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MineralMan
(146,331 posts)Not one person. He is lionized for some of the things he did that benefited people. Some of his other actions are either forgotten or go unmentioned.
I'm not going to list any of those. They're all laid out just fine in historical places. If you're interested in a briefish summary of his time in office, you can read this Wikipedia article:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_D._Roosevelt
We do not need another FDR. He was a man of his time - a time none of us lived in.
We need a different President than FDR was - a President for these times. We should not be looking back, but forward.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Prosper
(761 posts) Abraham Lincoln, Franklin D. Roosevelt, and George Washington are most often listed as the three highest-rated presidents among historians.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_rankings_of_presidents_of_the_United_States
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
MineralMan
(146,331 posts)Legends and truncated historical information. Read the Wikipedia article. All of it.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Prosper
(761 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Prosper
(761 posts)It does give rise to creating illogical arguments judging the whole by evaluating certain parts. So much of what FDR has done was basic human rights and that is why they have withstood attacks over 80 years. He has the most programs stil in existence than any other president since his presidency. Plus most everybody eventually benefitted from FDR. Contrast to Repub fav Reagan and Republican cost cutting agenda.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
MineralMan
(146,331 posts)I'm not feeling it.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Prosper
(761 posts)cant be judged by them. None of his programs were instituted without the pressure of radical opposition. Whether outright or perceived. Consequently it is not fair to perceive them as unadulterated and judge them so. A lot of his programs or derivations of them exist and are still being attacked to this day. I analogize that to a very high ranking untouchable human rights activist that ended up nailed to a cross.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
rwsanders
(2,606 posts)Makes one wonder what type of future they really envision.
But "shut up and vote the way we say" doesn't really appeal to me.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
brutus smith
(685 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
LongtimeAZDem
(4,494 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MineralMan
(146,331 posts)She was born in the Manzanar camp. After the war, her father committed suicide because everything he had built up was gone - stolen from him while he was incarcerated at Manznar. He was a native born US Citizen, and they took him and his family to Manzanar and others stole everything he had.
It was difficult for my friend to even speak of it. She was born in 1944. In Manzanar. She was also a native-born US citizen - born in a concentration camp in the California desert.
That was also something FDR did.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LongtimeAZDem
(4,494 posts)their particular argument, without regard to the actual conditions surrounding those facts.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
beachbumbob
(9,263 posts)americas never has been a left-center country
and never will.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
scheming daemons
(25,487 posts)The house is on fire. Bernie and Liz supporters are talking about how they'd remodel the kitchen.
Removing Donald Trump is literally *ALL* that matters for 2020. We have to save the house from burning down first.
After we have undone the damage the Trump and Trumpism is doing.... only *THEN* can we talk about "sweeping change".
If Bernie or Liz are the nominee, then Trump's chances of winning are greater.... which means not only do we not get the kitchen remodel, we lose the entire house.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
UniteFightBack
(8,231 posts)It's scary how many people don't get this very simple fact.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
blm
(113,092 posts)And she knows exactly where to find it.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
empedocles
(15,751 posts)[In 1940 he ran as an isolationist, despite raging Hitler and Japan]
FDR was a 'pragmatist' - and an all time winner!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
booley
(3,855 posts)Biden totally lost me when he floated the idea he might only serve one term.
That tells me he isnt' really fighting for anything beyond being President after trump. And after Biden we would be right back but with a smarter trump part two
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)I get it... 'inferred', despite its accuracy, doesn't really assist these data-free, faith-based narratives that fit on bumper-stickers.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)They wanted socialist revolution and loathed the New Deal, which they insisted protected wealthy capitalists and sold out, again, "the people."
Sound familiar? It should.
Their counterparts today also have no achievements of their own to point to, only massive failures in other nations, so they claim the progressive mainstream's New Deal as theirs in the exact same way trumpsters dishonestly dress themselves in Abraham Lincoln's glory, but not his ideals.
And for the exact same reason.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)Nice to see a student of history who knows what really happened during the New Deal.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
brutus smith
(685 posts)"Before his first term expired, Roosevelt signed legislation aimed at fixing banks and the stock market. He approved plans to aid the unemployed and the nations farmers. He began housing initiatives and ventures into public-owned electric power. New Deal programs aided industrialists and laborers alike. His friends and enemies grew with every act he signed into law."
https://www.ushistory.org/Us/49.asp
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)It's not all in the past and gone.
Speaking of friends and "us," only some AA were Democrats in the beginning, but by the end of FDR's presidencies they had become a strong Democratic power group whose support was critical to making the New Deal happen.
And the same then for conservative Southern Democrats, who were often very strongly opposed to anything mainstream Democrats did and most passionately opposed to empowering minority Americans. They've since gone to the Republican Party, but back then they were a hard-core RW faction yet most were also committed to progressive New Deal advances, for people like them.
Given the intense opposition from Republicans, enraged LW socialist/communists, RW fascists, and so on, the New Deal couldn't have happened without either group in the Democratic coalition.
And we think Pelosi and company are herding cats these days. Some idealists with sorta-socialist dreams are nothing in comparison.
It's the LW populists, of course. Peaceful advances, especially great ones, by mainstream Americans aren't their bag. If they were all to leave to join their RW counterparts and other RWers, more than the minority who helped elect Trump in 2016, that could be serious trouble. Russia's in it now and still, working for just that, but that's not entirely new, just much more powerful and sophisticated than then. But our majority prevailed, not theirs. We'll do it again.
History, as we live its continuum.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Both JFK and FDR were Democrats, to start with.
Also, JFK and FDR were the choice of the majority of Democrats for the nomination for the Democratic POTUS candidate.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)We have a great line-up this go-around, and none of the Democratic candidates are pretending to know what the others think.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(145,563 posts)We need to defeat trump and if we nominate a far left candidate, trump will win
Link to tweet
Link to tweet
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
brutus smith
(685 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Gothmog
(145,563 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BannonsLiver
(16,457 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
peggysue2
(10,839 posts)We need to do that first or nothing else is possible. Hello?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Kurt V.
(5,624 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Recursion
(56,582 posts)People keep saying this. Why?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Kurt V.
(5,624 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Recursion
(56,582 posts)If you want the middle class to be more affluent, that means the middle class will emit a lot more carbon
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Kurt V.
(5,624 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,123 posts)that speaks the word of truth to corporate power and lights the way forward for his fellow Democrats to follow.
Perfect, no, but Bernie's damn close to it... in the FDR mold. With Elizabeth on the team, we are GUARAN-DAMN-TEED victory... with Joe's far-from-perfect moderate incrementalist approach, that doesn't excite the base, or begin to attract new Democratic voters, we lose, perhaps in an Electoral College landslide.
Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
NYMinute
(3,256 posts)and he is being excoriated by real Democrats
His campaign is led by Jill Stein supporters.
Bernie is no FDR.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
brutus smith
(685 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
NYMinute
(3,256 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
brutus smith
(685 posts)Bernie is known as the amendment king.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)What bills did he sponsor?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to brutus smith (Original post)
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NYMinute
(3,256 posts)What we want and what we can get are two different things. Smart politicians like Clinton and Obama (both of FDR caliber) know this and do what is attainable.
We all want to be 21 years old, our ideal weight, tall and sexy, own a mansion, have a hot spouse and have a dream job. We all want to travel the world in first class with personally escorted tours. We all want to be debt free.
Wanting is okay, but thinking that someone can actually deliver it, is quite another and not realistic at all.
Bernie is no FDR. Nor is Sen. Warren although she is far far better than Bernie. Neither can deliver diddly except incremental change.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
brutus smith
(685 posts)So aim low and hope for the best huh?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Wawannabe
(5,678 posts)I do not agree! At all!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to Wawannabe (Reply #153)
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