but 'I was really disturbed by the fact that this was not being discussed," Flores said.'

Even though it's been debunked by both Carter and her husband.

That doesn't prove anything re: the Flores claims, of course, but the fact that we keep falling for right-wing spin on some of these events is growing a bit tiresome.

anyone’s mind will be changed

That is how I have always seen him.

she felt uncomfortable but I don't believe he was sexually harassing her.

Next thing you know she’ll be accusing another candidate of child abuse for a photo of him or her holding a baby at a campaign stop.

Flores sounds unhinged.

I HOPE others notice it.

used by David Sirota to torpedo Biden. It is going to backfire.

let those women speak for themselves.

she also didn't like sanders being criticized for sexual harassment on his own campaign.

yet, she is here speaking for others.

if she had a problem with him then speak of her own experience.

with information CONFIRMING harassment allegations against some working on Bernie's prior campaign. So, by your own mistaken argument, you are giving Ms. Flores credibility in her latest charges against Joe Biden. Now, it's time for Joe to speak up for himself and answer those charges.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

for those who falsely accuse...for political reasons.

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

This is political bullshit...maybe Sirota offered her something for this...touched my neck. Really? I was punched in the throat and almost choked to death. She makes it bad for those of us who have suffered assault.

a Bernie supporter and a director of "Our Revolution" making a smear against the only guy who is killing Bernie in every poll whilst he hasn't even announced.

Lucy Flores is a David Sirota tool of playing dirty tricks.

and the posts of Bernie supporters confirms it.

The Gestalt is clear -- Biden was killing Bernie in every poll and they needed to go nuclear. Enter David Sirota instructing Lucy Flores.

lol

Now THAT'S a hoot!!




Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

only confirms my suspecion that she is a tad obsessed with sexual harassment. She said her piece, now she should let the rest of us decide.

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

Just my opinion.

it's one thing to speak of her own experience and being uncomfortable with it.

but she is saying how we need to go after him based on pics and videos with other women who haven't said anything themselves.

I saw it on social media it must be true.

about her motives for this to generate a pile-on. Her damage control is revealing what this was really about, and it’s not her personal account from 5 years ago, which even her friend contradicts.

She has been exposed.

She continually made comments about other women and videos that are “out there” kind of thing. I found her not to be credible.

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

I didn’t say it was a fact, please feel free to form your own opinion.

If it's more of just a feeling that you have, that's fine too. I respectfully disagree.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

https://www.businessinsider.com/women-accused-trump-sexual-misconduct-list-2017-12

Pussy grabber put the prosecutor who let pedophile Epstein off in his cabinet
One of Epstein's girls claimed Trump raped her and got too frightened to see her legal action through.
Trump & the GOP Senate put another sex assault suspect on the Supreme Court without investigating all the claims

I am a person who can relate - I do not like to be touched.

Don't mean to insult the complainer who should be listened to but this might be another Benghazi. I'm just getting a little sensitive.

I saw Nixon cheat his way into the White House and commit a crime to win a second term.
I saw Reagan cheat Jimmy Carter out of a second term.
I saw GHW Bush and AG Barr cover up Iran Contra and pardon the crooks.
I saw a suspect 2000 election in Florida that didn't count all the votes & cost Al Gore
I saw John Kerry get swiftboated
I saw Barack Obama labeled a muslim born in Kenya who promoted death panels
I saw Hillary getting pummeled for Benghazi and emails - when Trump's kids are doing worse right now and nobody effectively says a thing.

I'm getting a little sick of our candidates getting run on a relative chicken shit charge when we have a chronically deceitful rabid dog in the Oval Office put there by the Russians.

It will be really interesting to see how much the media laps this up and compare it to the attention given to the 23 far more serious sexual assault allegations by the pussy grabber-in-chief.

I've been following Biden since he first came to the Senate. He's not perfect but he's a good person. I'm concerned we're get sucked down a black hole here at the expense of an imperfect but good candidate.

Nearly the entire Republican party is complicit with what has gone wrong in Washington. You heard them again this week try to tear down another good man: Adam Schiff who has just been trying to do what he was sent to Washington to do. And cover for Barr sham of a letter to clear a President who accepted help from the Russians to win the White House.

I'm losing patience. There is some grotesque false equivalence being flirted with here. I think we need to be careful. I've seen this too many times before.

Al Franken has a heck of a lot more right to be in Washington than the criminal in the Oval Office and the traitors who keep him there.

That's my two cents

Thanks.

Didn't Bill Cosby not having any accusations against him until about 2004, when he was 67?

All I'm saying is that this argument isn't really a good one when it comes to maintaining a person's innocence.

Bill Cosby was known to have “stuff” as early as 2005, if not before.

Google: Andrea Constand v. William H. Cosby, Jr.

https://nypost.com/2000/03/02/actress-bombshell-cos-rubbed-me-the-wrong-way/

It sure does.

That shouldn't mean Joe doesn't get an adequate opportunity to respond to the charges of inappropriate touching. He certainly doesn't deserve the "Al Franken treatment."


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

for political dirty tricks, probably at the behest of Sirota and perhaps his boss.

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

The conduct was neither sexual nor harassing

Lucy Flores is trying to exploit the REAL #metoo for political gain for Bernie Sanders.

and the whole incident was concocted at the time to help Bernie perpetrate a political hit job on Joe in the next primary election.

Wow!! What a hoot!!




Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

"where Biden put his hands on Carter's wife's shoulders, leaned over and whispered something in her ear. Video of the incident was scrutinized on social media;"

Flores is a political operative working for our revolution.

as much as they should be free to take offense to it.

That Ms. Flores seems to be insinuating that Mrs. Carter had been harassed but just didn't know it (probably because it wasn't "scrutinized" adequately) would seem to indicate an attempt to rob a woman of her agency--and whether this is politically motivated or not this is not a good look.

in a good way.. I like being around expressive people who demonstrate loving caring emotions through touch-which is one of our senses.

What is next ---anti-touch laws. Stop trying to turn us all into robots.

The children in the cages at the border--remember how the bureaucrats forbade them to touch.

Babies in orphanages used to die form lack of touch.

Ignorant physicians and psychologists used to instruct parents to minimize touching their children

... not pleasant. Not good for us as human beings, I'm sure. I wish I could be more articulate about this.

This is the CENTRAL SCRUTINIZER...it is my responsibility to enforce all the laws
that haven't been passed yet. It is also my responsibility to alert each and every one of
you to the potential consequences of various ordinary everyday activities you might be
performing which could eventually lead to The Death Penalty (or affect your Presidential
rating). Our criminal institutions are full of little creeps like you who do wrong things...
and many of them were driven to these crimes by a horrible force called Love for our fellow man. Our studies
have shown that this horrible force is so dangerous to society at large that laws are being
drawn up at this very moment to stop it forever! Cruel and inhuman punishments are
being carefully described in tiny paragraphs so they won't conflict with the Constitution
(which, itself, is being modified in order to accommodate THE FUTURE).

Lucy Flores


Actually Frank Zappa (modified a little)

Way too old, too gaffe prone, doesn't properly represent where the party is in the year 2019, etc.

Not this nonsense.

Ageism, however, should never enter into the equation.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

80, which Biden will turn during his second year in office, is simply way too old for me. That's where I draw the line as far as how old I want my presidents to be.

… and I don't think it will work.

Just because this might be innocent on the part of Biden,does not mean that it could not be a political liability. My opinion is that it probably isn't. He has been getting away with it because he is Joe Biden. There is a story out there about secret a service agent and his wife that almost resulted in fisticuffs.

The Republicans are going to try and manipulate it until after he gets the nomination.

and using me too and GOP MEMES that have been debunked is wrong,

Maybe the accusations from Flores are politically motivated; maybe they are not. This is just the day after the first allegation. Lets see what happens. It occurs to me that there are probably more women who felt violated by his behavior. Maybe I am wrong. The worst thing that could happen is that he gets the nomination and it explodes into a big issue.

It appears that he has done more than just hugging.

Story and her role at OR, it is clearly political. Perhaps all candidates need such vetting.

My two cents..

From what i read over the last day or two and viewed in photographs posted here, Joe is a touchy feely sniffy sort of guy.
I don't know if Lucy Flores revelation was a campaign hit job or just her personal revelation. Since she stated it was her personal disclosure and that she hasn't endorsed a candidate yet, I take her at her word.

So it comes down to me processing whether i can ignore the touchy feely sniffy personality trait and balance it with the other things I know about him.

There ought to be room for this

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

And I am very disinterested in reading 'well it's always been this way"

I happen to like Biden (less today) but I dont care how well intentioned, you dont just go and touch someone else let alone sniff or kiss them.

When you go to shake someone's hand you put your hand out and that is an invitation for the other person to grasp it in return. No one just grabs the others hand (or well they shouldnt). Unless there is an established relationship and touching is welcomed, don't do it. And I dont give two shits about it's "politics" or if the intentions are innocent. You have no idea of the person's beliefs or feelings or personal history. I will also add that people should feel perfectly comfortable denying a request without being called a dick or a bitch or weird.

Society is changing and people are feeling more confident in standing up for their personal space and security. The way things were and always have been is insufficient reason to continue. If this means that people need to change and grow then fine.

I will end my tirade with this. If Biden meant this innocently and apologized sincerely then I do believe he needs to be given the opportunity for redemption. People do become emboldened and make stupid errors which leave others uncomfortable. Purity and perfection tests are a fool's errand because no one can ever possibly meet those standards. People are imperfect.

If there is a barrage of women complaining about his behavior, it will probably sink his campaign. If it happens after he gets the nomination, we could lose the general election. The Republicans could have people being manipulated to wait for that.

No one ever said change was easy. And it would be disappointing. To be honest, I am not interested in a Biden campaign. Call me ageist but we should be looking for younger candidates that are more likely to be able to complete their terms.

Joe’s not a perv or molester or a sexual predator, no matter what kind of innuendo the RightWing noise machine shits out.



Obviously Republicans are pretty spooked by the possibility of Biden v Trump.

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

I was expecting the opposite of your response. Oh and for the irony may I request...

I met him and shook his hand, I can only say he was VERY,VERY attractive and I am not a touchy feely person but I could never get mad at JFK if he kissed the top of my head. Would she have condemned JFK in the same way as she is doing to Biden. I still remember how thrilled I was to shake his hand.

to which the touchee should be offended?! Fine, if that works for you... but, the #MeToo movement would suffer a serious setback if that ever became the standard for men accused of inappropriate touching.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

Of course you are right but I do wonder__________

Have a good one!!




Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

Im a man so I'll just keep the rest of my bewilderment to myself.

I'm a woman and feel the same. I do have additional questions, like did Mr. Biden know her? Did he mistake the back of her head for someone else? Why didn't she turn around and ask him why or what? Does she know for sure it was him? Seems like there is alot missing here. Plus, I would be upset if someone grabbed my arse, or if I was facing a stranger who forcibly kissed me, but what if he had patted the back of her head or accidentally brushed her head would that be the same? But smelling her head/hair? This is baffling and illogical to me.

Are we going to researching photographic files for evidence.......of what?

as in the Carter example.

He was being interviewed by the local paper and when they finished, Beau introduced him to me and said I had some questions I'd like his opinion on. Joe walked up to me, gently put his hands on my shoulders and gave me two kisses on the forehead. He was very respectful and acted like a gentleman.

Being from such a warm family, I'm sure it is common practice for them to think nothing of acknowledging others with a warm handshake or kiss on the forehead as a greeting. Beau was extremely polite and soft-spoken. During that campaign, I was able to meet his sister, both sons and 3 of the grandchildren. They were a delight.

that I posted about earlier today:

https://upload.democraticunderground.com/128743190

rampant on the BS campaign last time around? Did she speak out for those victims?

https://www.npr.org/2019/01/03/681815362/bernie-sanders-responds-to-allegations-of-sexism-and-harassment-on-2016-campaign

sexual harrassment complaints in 16 when it happened. Why wasnt she concerned about this?

I am 100% against politically weaponizing it.

Link to tweet

".. that what she remembered did not match my recollection or what was in the photos.."

He felt sucker punched and surprised that their private conversation was included and worse.. it misrepresented me".

Imagine if Cristibol Alex had not spoken up?

I don't know the man so I can't totally embrace this. But he's raised significant money for Democrats, served in the DNC and seems respected as a voice and activist for Latinos.

I regard this as more information.

the event, spoke to nearly every principle in attendance and to the staff associated with the event.

He explains that Biden, for security reasons, was in a separate holding room before the event, and not in the same holding room as Flores and Latino Victory Project leadership and staff.

Biden and Flores were together for only moments before they went onstage, and as they waited offstage they were surrounded by security, medical and production staff.

He concludes:

"I, and the organization I cofounded and those in attendance, do not believe that circumstances support allegations that such an event took place."




Tweet from NBC's Alex Seitz-Wald, with Munoz's statement:

Link to tweet

David Sirota asked her to go public because Biden was killing Bernie in every poll. (Maybe approved by Sirota's boss)

Her story does not pass my smell test.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/128745033

That behavior, in a social circumstance including my husband, would not be something I would find uncomfortable.

She didn't mind at the time, put her hand on Joe's shoulders right afterwards & a friend says she wasn't offended at the time. This is just one more Bernie surrogate trying to clear the path for him. Joe and Beto are the people they are targeting, hmm, why not the others? It's because those are the ones that pose the greatest threat to Sanders self-entitlement to run as the greatest liberal leader.

Link to tweet