Mayor Joe, Joe Biden, we eat our own while the Repubs laugh

why feed negative comments to the GOP?

for attention?

Some of us need an attitude adjustment! Using Republican tactics on ourselves is like political suicide. We need to keep the main goal in mind and our eyes on the big prize!

check out the last comments made on this

Invitation to Civility op

https://www.democraticunderground.com/128741459

Really? Is this acceptable?

Well, if so THANK YOU DU FOR unlimited " I G N O R E " feature

😉

Some just can't help themselves, it appears.

I had chosen at one point who I was going to back, but decided that I'm gonna sit the fence until next Summer. There are just too many choices. And some DAMN good ones too! No way I'm going to go after any of the potential Democratic Nominee just because of an ill-timed statement.

Let's face it, everyone has made statements in their lives they wish they could retract. We all have. I like Pete, I like Kamala, I like Bernie, I like Elizabeth, I like Joe, HELL, I like them all. As mentioned above, ANY will be better than the orange puke bomb we're all dealing with now.

I like many candidates. I like Buttigieg. While I’m not crazy about his comments I don’t consider them disqualifying. None of our candidates are perfect. Any one of them is better than Trump.

I know I am guilty of posting things I shouldn’t, but it is in response to posts attacking one of ours.

I will make no decision until we have heard the debates and will try not to join in the attacks.

It is so importatant we pull together and change the WhiteHouse and the Senate. We need to think seriously about Congress.

that's damaging to any candidate other than the one they support, apparently assuming that tearing down all the others will ensure the success of the one they favor. We need to consider both the sources and the likely motivations. There are some whose intent is only to divide us.

and the lives of billions.

That last one standing will be the one to do it.

tell a tale

Saw one marked undecided and their avatar is one of our more controversial candidates.
Making up smack about one of the top candidates.

So yes profiles can be interesting.

that is one of the reasons Harris is falling in my standings. Even though I love the idea of her taking the office away from Trump and she was in my top two.

Many of the posters contributing negatively overall have bounced from having Harris tags, some to Biden, some to Buttigieg, and a few to Sanders, presumably ironically.

Though, I must confess, I remember certain posters from the last go around and I check out their preference to see who to be wary of.

I wish Bernie was a decade younger...Inslee at 68 is the oldest I will go for---as of yet (may reconsider after I see how he goes through these next ten months. )Thankfully, he is very focused on climate, which is my number one issue.

to one politician at any given time. Very obvious.

I've been here almost since the beginning and it's like this pretty much every election cycle. My suggestion is to try to filter out the worst of it or it'll kind of drive you crazy.

And, yes, every Dem in the race is infinitely preferable to Mango Mussolini.

are actually spirited defenses after the culprits fired their shots.

1. Mayor Pete attacked Hillary Clinton to score points with the white working class Trump voters.

2. A Bernie supporter and a director of Our Revolution came up with a non-credible story of sexual embarrassment which was 0% sexual and 0% harassment.

Are the supporters of other candidates just supposed to turn the other cheek?

It is quite simple really. The candidates should not denigrate their opponents or Democratic leaders whether they are running or not. Just put forth a positive message about how they can do better.

Instead, the David Sirota strategy is being used and many are sick of it.

He did not attack Sec. Clinton, he was critiquing the campaign messaging, he certainly is not going after Democrats to garner white working class Trump voters, and that article was dredged up from 2 and half months ago via Twitter bots and trolls.

Talk about fake meme pushing, smdh. Spirited defence my ass.

Welcome to DU btw

all.

He also was not attacking Clinton, he was talking about the messaging

America is already great as a slogan...

well

If your life was not great, if you were feeling disconnected and alienated (regardless of race, ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation, profession, etc) and if you felt insecure, then it could be seen as not speaking to your concerns.

It also was not good messaging as it was projected into the face of a 'change election'. It literally could be perceived as saying the status quo was already great, when for a very very diverse group of people it was not.For example, A-A voting levels cratered from not just 2012, but from even 2004 levels, see an extensive discussion of that here ( https://www.democraticunderground.com/128736610#post18 )

The dialectic was moved from what we could do to make peoples' lives better to a 'we are not them' and attempts to shame or outright bait (basket of deplorables) when then boiled down into a food fight and many people felt like it was no long about them, they were being talked past, not talked to. Buttigieg never ever went after Sec. Clinton on a personal level, it was a critique of the messaging of the campaign.

So many false memes floating out there all of sudden since his polling numbers have taken off (3rd in Iowa for example zero to 11 percent in a month or so) People take snippets and pull quotes (see here for instance https://www.democraticunderground.com/128733687 of a Twitter troll trying to do just that and Wonkette slapping them down) and try to turn it into some binary, simplistic misrepresentation or phoney 'gothcha' moment that dismisses even moderately deep thought and does nothing to advance our party in terms of drilling down to not only root problems, but intelligent solutions to those very problems as well. It turns into a food fight that does a disservice to everyone, not just Buttigieg.





And here are some articles where he specifically talks about white racism and about social and racial justice being key to combatting that.


How Democrats can defeat Trump and his ugly ideas, according to Pete Buttigieg



Buttigieg: “I don’t want this to slide into the idea that some of these racist behaviors can be excused because they can be connected to economic issues.

How Democrats can defeat Trump and his ugly ideas, according to Pete Buttigieg

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/03/19/how-democrats-can-defeat-trump-his-ugly-ideas-according-pete-buttigieg/?utm_term=.3d338b3fbcea

snip

Buttigieg: You might have followed this widely publicized case involving a small-business owner from Granger, the next community over, very conservative. This guy was an important part of the community, undocumented, went in for an annual ICE visit and didn’t come back out. The fiercely protective response came mostly from white members of the community who were conservative and largely voted for Trump, but did not view what he was talking about as going against somebody like Roberto, who they loved. Yes, you have a lot of people in my part of the country who feel we’re spending too many resources on immigrants, even though that’s inaccurate and immigration subsidizes us. But it doesn’t necessarily apply to people you actually know and meet and see.



Buttigieg: Absolutely. We need to recognize 21st-century threats. Cybersecurity, climate security and security in the face of white nationalism are all clear and present security threats that folks on the other side of the aisle either refuse to acknowledge or decline to do anything about. It’s extremely important for Democrats to very vocally talk about those threats.



Buttigieg: In the narrow tactical sense, it’s something we need to stay ahead of and monitor the way you would any kind of violent radical movement from abroad. There’s a deeper phenomenon going on. As we see dislocation and disruption in certain parts of the country, from rural areas to my home in the industrial Midwest, and in the economy, this leads to a kind of disorientation and loss of community and identity. That void can be filled through constructive and positive things, like community involvement or family. And it can be filled by destructive things, like white identity politics. This is one thing well-intentioned job training programs often miss: If we’re not attending to that, then making sure somebody’s income is steady or replaced after their place in the economy is disrupted, that’s not really enough.



Buttigieg: I don’t want this to slide into the idea that some of these racist behaviors can be excused because they can be connected to economic issues. But I do think it’s easier to fall into these forms of extremism when you don’t know where your place is. There’s this very basic human desire for belonging that historically has often been supplied by the workplace. It’s been based on the presumption of a lifelong relationship with a single employer. This isn’t just a blue-collar phenomenon. We’ve come to be pretty reliant on the way that your workplace explains who you are. That’s breaking down. That doesn’t have to be a soul-crushing thing, provided that there are alternate sources for community, identity, and purpose. In South Bend, we focus a lot on enlisting people in the project of the city itself. The sense of belonging can be very powerful, and we’re very fragile without it. It’s not accidental that some areas that have seen the most disruption in our social and economic life are those that are most likely to produce a lot of domestic extremists.


snip




Buttigieg: 'Americans are being radicalized' by Trump administration

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/436340-buttigieg-americans-are-being-radicalized-by-trump-administration




Pete Buttigieg Says Mike Pence Is ‘At Best Complicit’ In White Nationalism Revival

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/pete-buttigieg-mike-pence-white-nationalism_n_5c9c9722e4b07c886631526b




Pete Buttigieg tells SC voters 2020 presidential race is about justice

https://www.postandcourier.com/politics/pete-buttigieg-tells-sc-voters-presidential-race-is-about-justice/article_2e4d015a-4d82-11e9-854e-071b072ed647.html

snip

Certain people are perfect and nothing about them, their methods, their accomplishments, deeds, relationships, words, or any other facet of their perfection may be critiqued directly or indirectly. Unless you want a scorched earth battle to the political mutual destruction.

“Donald Trump got elected because, in his twisted way, he pointed out the huge troubles in our economy and our democracy,” Buttigieg says. “At least he didn’t go around saying that America was already great, like Hillary did.” --

Apparently, he didn't/doesn't think America is great. That gives me something to ponder and

HRC is bad because she did. It is the "at least...Hillary" part that pokes at me. Does he want her to think it sucks too?

I think he believes that the Dem candidate for president needs to recognize that, for many people, it DOES kinda suck. To that extent--if you were un/underemployed in the rust belt for example--Trump's message of "we can be great" was, in a sense, a more hopeful message than the Dem counter of "we're already great." That Dem message may not have been the best to put out to those who were struggling, and perhaps cost us some otherwise traditionally Democratic voters. I think one should be able to make this point without being accused of everything Buttigieg is being accused of. It's not an unreasonable or anti-party perspective. If we don't want to lose again, maybe we shouldn't say and do all the same things we said and did last time.

in the running. We lost for a gazillion reasons but HRC saying it was already great is NOT one of them. He may be saying that through the eyes of a mayor and she might have said that through the eyes of a Secretary of State who has seen a hell of a lot of countries that are in a big world of hurt.

I agree, there were much bigger things knocking her down (including things like the Comey announcement), but as someone said recently, Trump shouldn't have even been able to get within cheating distance... and he got there through WI/MI/PA so there is perhaps some value in looking at how we can increase out appeal there. Not by saying America sucks, but maybe to better emphasize to those voters that we know, for them, we're not quite all the way to Great yet, either. I'm not saying you need to agree, or even that I'm confident about what the best approach is myself... I'm only saying that this is not an unreasonable idea and does not represent some kind of great party betrayal. And sure, Hillary's perspective may be different because she's seen world, but it's not about her perspective, it's about the perspective of the voters who haven't seen what she has. That's who our candidate has to be able to relate to, and vice versa.

I fit in that category. My reaction would not be any different had he called us a "shithole" country. I am not saying that it is an unforgivable sin but.... people take things differently and I was insulted that he thinks it is not great. He could have made his point differently and without throwing unnecessary shade.

I mean, I read and are still reading some vile things written about almost all the major contenders.

Did you think Buttigieg would escape this?

There are no perfect candidates. Pure and simple.

Thinking the same thing. Attacking one of our own while saying we should not.

Face it, guys, I voted for Hillary, wish she had won, but she and Bill had become one of the so called elite over the years. The irony is she was friends with Trump who did a better job of pretending he was one of the ,” Aw Schucks,” crowd. Democrats knew better, the yokels did not.

We shall see in 2020 if they learned anything.

with Trump"

Too bad about Pete. I thought he was "going places" but I see now that he's already peaked. This is his high-water mark. Down is the only direction left for him to go. He's not going to be our party's nominee.

I could see him doing pretty well in Iowa but not winning. After that there doesn’t appear to be a lot of window for him.

a "non-credible story of sexual embarrassment" ...as you would know by reading this board. One of our own very credible posters has personal knowledge of the behavior in question. If you were inclined to listen that is.

He must be destroyed because he is surely the enemy.

is insufficient to describe this post and the loathing I feel.

Attacks on Gillibrand over Franken, and the Beto's all rhetoric?

...but DONT DISS HILLARY

You don't have to agree with the criticism, but criticizing something she did is not a diss or an attack.

I wouldn't go there on this site...lol

and I don't really understand how we're supposed to be wary of "eating our own" when Dem candidates do exactly that. I'm as party loyal as they come. But I'm not an unthinking automaton. I will include, in every post where I have to express disappointment about a candidate, the pledge that, should that candidate get the nomination, he or she has my full support. But that doesn't mean, between now and then, that I' not going to express disappointment over remarks like this. DON'T DISS HILLARY.

I still stand with Joe until I do my own in-depth research.

And, just to be clear, I am a child sexual abuse survivor and adult rape survivor who has very strong feelings regarding the "Me Too" movement. I also know what it feels like to report abuse and not be believed, and that was an extremely painful experience.

However, I refuse to make a judgment call on this at the moment.

Also, I agree that any Democrat is superior to the "Orange Cruel-ius" interloper.

And, this is not my stance merely because at the moment I endorse Biden. If I determine that his behavior warrants, I will choose another potential candidate.

I hope I have not offended anyone by stating my personal belief. I am new and I am still feeling my way around DU.

Seems like they have made you stronger and you have a perfect viewpoint.

It is nice to meet you, BlueFlorida!

I apologize for not getting back to my posts earlier, but we recently had two unexpected deaths in our family and I just haven't been doing much checking or posting lately. I did start posting a lot again yesterday.

Thank you for your kind words. Honestly, they have made my day. Maybe those experiences did make me stronger in some ways. If anything, experiencing such deep betrayal and pain has made me even more empathic and compassionate, I believe. And that is a good thing!

I should have named myself "BlueTennessee!" I'm in a red state, but I do know a lot of blue people here: neighbors, my children, some relatives, etc.

I don't know how I would have survived these past months without DU. What a lifesaver you guys have been to me!

Again, thank you for your kindness, BlueFlorida!

It's the gauntlet that must be run to get the Democratic nomination. I've seen it my whole life.

Frankly, if you can't handle the slings and arrows of fellow Democratic voters, how are you going to stand up before the filth bucket that is Trump?

the Starbucks guy and Tulsi Gabbard. I prefer Buttigieg/Harris, but I will support pretty much anyone who happens to be the candidate to run against Trump.

While it’s good to ask questions and discuss differences when it comes to political issues, I have zero interest in character assassination of any Democratic contenders.

Wish I could rule him out to Mars, as he and that planet share a similar hue.

This early in the primary process and we're engaging in hateful bloodsports with our candidates?

===========

of the Democratic Party. Obviously some thing Mayor Pete is the real threat.

Consider the following a simulation of the 2016 election, with the kicker representing Fat Donnie and the goalie being every poll that predicted a win for Hillary:

Vox = NBC

It's the repetition of the same talking point in multiple posts after the issue has been brought up to discussion. Ether someone isn't reading what's up on the forum or someone just wants to hammer their pet point because they're not satisfied with the result of the previous discussion. I'd bet it's the latter.

If we pretend that all that matters are positions people take on issues?

But I haven't seen any vicious attacks on Pete. Have they been occurring?

Not vicious attacks. Bad track record with the African American community, insulted Hillary, blah blah blah...

Also people are constantly saying he's too young and just a mayor. What about that orange two-bit game show host in the White House? The only experience he has is conning and money laundering.

the millions of voters who chose her in the primary.

Pete said Trump won because Hillary had said America under Obama was great. Not one of Pete's finest moments. He alienated many Hillary and Obama supporters in one sentence.

Some more than others. It's ridiculous. And I'm going to start trashing them all right after I block the person who submitted them. I've had enough of this shit. Republicans don't even have to lift a finger to destroy our party. We're doing that just fine on our own. Or at least the trolls and right wing operatives pretending to be liberals are.

I like Elizabeth, Kirsten, Joseph and Peter
And as I continue you know they getting sweeter!

A little bit of Kamala in my life
A little bit of Bernie by my side
A little bit of Amy's all I need
A little bit of Tulsi's what I see
A little bit of Julian in the sun
A little bit of Beto all night long
A little bit of Hickenlooper, here I go
A little bit of you will win my vote!



=================

We will all get behind whomever the Democratic nominee happens to be.

In previous years, there have been Democratic candidates who used push polls against their rivals. In 2004, one of them (I don't know who) in the last days of Iowa, had a push poll asking people who answered that they were for Kerry, if it would change their mind if they knew that his cancer had returned (which it obviously had not). I doubt that was the only negative campaigning in a year that was on the surface less negative between Democrats than most -- likely because until spring 2004, the Democrats were not seen as remotely competitive.

I think today's attacks on both Mayor Pete and Biden, are in reaction to Pete's rise and Biden's being the front runner. Some of the attacks on Mayor Pete today are from people clearly not over 2016 and very sensitive to anything that suggests that Hillary Clinton and her campaign were less than perfect.

We need to be like this...

I jest, I jest

but he didnt put his name on it.

yes, plenty of dirty politics stretching way back.

It was actually a smear on Kerry when he was accused of that because one (or more) of the people/unions that contributed to that PAC had also given money to Kerry. The majority gave money mostly to Gephardt -- free trade was the issue they were most interested in. By the way, one gave money to Dean himself.

One reason that Kerry fired Jim Jordan was that he attacked Dean in a way Kerry objected to and it was not the way that Kerry thought he should run. Gephardt and Dean had a nasty fight between them. Trippi, who was a Dean strategist was behind a lot of attacks on other candidates.

One attack on Kerry was a smear that he was too connected to lobbyists. Kerry, who was one of the first Senators to run 3 races with no PAC money and who worked with Wellstone on what was a stronger campaign finance law than McCain/Feingold, was someone who had long spoken against money in politics. It was such a key issue, he addressed it in his farewell speech to the Senate in 2013.

Kerry's response was to immediately say he would put out the entire record of lobbyists he met with in the then last 15 years and a few weeks later did so. He challenged Dean and others to do the same -- and none did. In 2008, the Democrats were asked to follow this precedent -- none did.

taste. Me I'm not knocking anybody because everybody is great. Like take this Mayor Pete guy....I think he's fantastic and I really like him. HE IS LIKEABLE. Doesn't matter if he's white, don't matter if he's gay if you like somebody you like them.

He's like human Xanax. I also feel that way about Jon Meacham.

If the posts were out of line, they would have been alerted on and removed. If they weren't, and you were offended, maybe you're being a bit sensitive?

People quite naturally have different opinions about the different candidates. I think people should be free to express those opinions, as long as the tone is respectful and the posts are factually correct.

Speaking for myself, I wouldn't mind hearing what others think about the different candidates, good and bad. I'm not one of those pie-in-sky supporters who thinks the candidates are perfect, or have to be.

A robust discussion among posters about the good things and the negative about each candidate is healthy.

Nor were they vicious attacks. My point is we really, really need an impenetrable front this year.

I'm not all-seeing and perfect....I need to hear all views on all the candidates. But then I haven't decided on one, yet. If I'd decided on one, I'd probably be more sensitive.

I don't think giving opinions is "eating our own." I wouldn't believe any of the posters if all they were allowed to do is post positive things.

But there are Pukes and trolls laying in wait to weaponize any signs of dissent. The country and our very lives are at stake this year.

Saying something true but negative about a candidate is more important than saying something good. We need to know viewpoints of voters toward the candidates.

It's a matter of intelligent discussion and respectful tone. Not ragging on a candidate repeatedly.

I've made my position clear on Gillibrand. No reason I shouldn't, esp since a number of other people feel the same way. There's nothing wrong with that. I've defended against objections to Biden, when someone posted a negative post about him regarding the hearing. So the two viewpoints are represented. THESE ARE THE SAME VIEWS THAT THE GENERAL VOTERS ARE GOING TO HAVE. So we need to know.

and some of our other candidates can see this. We will have an internal battle until our champion emerges. We will then March into battle against an evil regime as a United force.

They enjoy running with "the momentum has shifted" narrative.

The media is more than happy to the Republican Party or democratic opposing Candudates do their work for them in uncovering the slightest current or past missteps to deliberate misinterpretations of out of context quotes, videos, and photographs.

Get used to it. Trump was/is very good at manipulating the media by deflecting criticism and accusing his opponents of what he is guilty of. The media then chase after his opponent.

The Democrats need to learn how to control the message.

THIS is our enemy. Eating at the foundation of our Constitution. Attacking free press. Villinizing and marginalizing minorities. CAGING CHILDREN IN OUR COUNTRY FFS!!!!


These? These are our friends, our allies, our REAL leaders. EVERY FUCKING FACE ON THIS PHOTO will sign any Democratic Party Policy or Law that any Democratic Party Congress that WE give them is put in front of them, and EVERY FUCKING FACE ON THIS LIST will VETO any tRumpublicon passed legislation that further reduces our Democracy. EVERY one of these will appoint better cabinet positions, better ambassadors, and better judges than ANYONE that orange baffoon will appoint!!!


Having one of these in the bottom photo getting that orange shitgibbon in the top photo come November 2020 is the main thing that matters.. That and keeping the House, and taking back the Senate so that whichever person in the bottom photo does win has any chance at all of having bills that will pass any agenda that we can work with.

Last edited Sat Mar 30, 2019, 09:03 PM - Edit history (1)

if they win the nomination. It will be far worse than grumbling about how he/she talked about Hillary - they will have teams that do nothing but comb through old interviews and speeches and writings to find nuggets they can build a 60 second hit spot around.

That being said I'm also tired of the way some politicians are treated as somehow holy and unassailable here on DU.

Can't criticize Hillary and you can't criticize Obama, even if your criticism is valid, or you're committing some unpardonable act of blasphemy.

Just look at how people are losing their shit because Pete referred to Hillary Clinton by her first name. You'd swear he called their momma a whore.

smearing and innuendo is why I find it so hard to follow political campaigns. And the advent of paid trolls and bots has made it far worse. Can we have a forum to discuss policy differences?

1. Educate others on what's good about your candidate.
2. Criticize other candidates when warranted, but don't allege any candidate to be one dimensional.
3. Respect differences of opinion.
4. Don't go hog wild posting the same thing over and over. That's troll behavior.
5. Let the last campaign go already!!!
6. Fight with all your might to win this critical election - more organizing and less talk is what's what!!!

on all the candidates. How completely fatiguing.


Except Inslee...we'll have to work on that one. He needs to be a contender. He sends me emails!

Having a stellar record and organizing around the critical issue of climate change hasn't led to prominent support so far.

Pro-Inslee trolls - let's take over the internet!

… posts about the candidates doing well... I think they and their supporters desperately want to win. It's real nasty... I admire the candidates for putting their reputations on display for the good of our country. Every word, glance, or mistake they made will be combed for political advantage. There are no perfect candidates and there are no perfect campaigns.

To create a split between us with it. Mayor Pete isn't one of them. HE does talk a lot about various things , and has his opinions when asked about issues , and we have a sitting president using that tactic every day trying to pick a fight to use to intentionally divide people up with it, and to pit them against each other. The focus they all need to use is against the Republican party,and how fascist they've gotten, allowing a racist ,and serial liar to take over their party, and all the corruption going on. If we allow them to divide us up, we're playing into their plans. Focus needs to be on not allowing us to be divided up, and support for whoever our candidate will be.

This morning. They were ranting about Joe. Turned to MSNBC they were talking about Trump.

Turner Classic Movies. Bette Davis/ Olivia De Haviland. and I pay for this crap.

He thinks the candidate that won may have ran a better race than the candidate that lost. No wonder we are so mad at him. Disqualified!

When your statement puts down other democrats, it encourages their defenders to attack those people and it puts others on the defensive.

I cannot vote for a candidate that is out to get other democrats. And that is very much Pete.

And for him it's not just candidates, he insults me. I am a "coastal elite," which just shows how much he is ignorant of the issues in the cities. He also thinks I should stop boycotting Chick filet, which I know it's not spelled right, but I could care less about that brand.

getting thrown under the bus with use of right wing smear tactic.

Masters at snatching defeat out of the jaws of victory.

That said, the new forum concept (especially candidate selections in the posts) should help the vitriol here. Or one can hope. It does help having some context for the post.

Fanaticism is a term for belief or behavior involving uncritical zeal, particularly for extreme religious or political causes, often insisting upon very strict standards with little or no tolerance for contrary ideas or opinions.

Pete is awesome. Unless one has met him like we have, then this negative post BS are either trolls of convenience or intentional ones - and we say this as firm supporters of Kamala Harris. It's time to start questioning those seeking to divide us -- as it haven't we been down this road in 2016. Umm...

We eat our own, shoot ourselves in the feet, cut the pins out of colleagues and then wonder why we lose and lose again.

2018 was the rare exception. But now we are at it and each other again. We are fools for ideological purity.

Expecting the media to provide rosy, fawning coverage (which has been the case so far) and for every Dem to fall in love with Pete’s campaign is pretty unrealistic.

I was talking about us. BTW, the first prez I voted against was Ray-gun.

And when what people like is challenged or criticized it usually results in pushback. Pretty much every open presidential primary in history has been that way. That’s why it’s a gauntlet.