It's not always easy, though...

who will not vote for the winning candidate in the General Election.
It takes more than Democrats to elect a Democrat.

Must vote for the nominee.

We have to take people at their word. Some didn't in 2016. Most of them are no longer here, either voluntarily or otherwise. However, there will always be some here who don't vote for the Democratic nominee, but who will never admit that.

It is going to be up to GOTV efforts to get people out in November. It always is, but it's going to be even more important in 2020.

I hope we can succeed. We must succeed, I think.

Not all US voters are D or R, but all who are not deeply conned or deplorable should recognize the dire threat of Donald Trump and VOTE for the Democratic nominee to end this madness.

It will be in Minnesota, my adopted state. It will be in many other states as well. GOTV efforts are always local in nature. It will be up to Democrats in every state to get their friends and neighbors to vote. That will make all the difference.

Turnout is achieved on both the macro and micro scale.

Now is the time for all good men and women to come to the aid of their country.

that they will write Bernie’s name in on their general election ballot if he isn’t the nominee. When I express my concern about them throwing their vote to the MF... they laugh and say it’s their vote and they can do what they like. Maybe they think it doesn’t matter in red state like Montana but I find it very upsetting because it does matter. These are people who vote an otherwise straight Dem ticket. I do not understand the disconnect. I see a similar attitude with a few folks here in the DU community.

Sometimes, as with Barack Obama, they are not much heard from. At other times, though, they do play a role in elections. Their "My candidate or who cares" attitudes reflect frustration of some kind, but not a lot of thought about outcomes.

You'd think that someone like Donald Trump would wake such people up, but it often doesn't. Some voters who are attracted to populist candidates like Trump and Sanders do not vote on the basis of political party or outcomes, but on a personal basis. They are loyal to a particular individual and, if they cannot have that individual as the winner, they will sometimes even vote to sabotage another candidate, as if to "teach us a lesson."

Being "right" instead of being practical is always an issue for some. People who vote in that way simply aren't paying attention to the real impact of elections, particularly presidential elections. They are voting on a personal basis, rather than for the better outcome. I know of no way to influence such voters to do what is best, instead of insisting that only their candidate is the answer.

But, if there are indeed a lot of voters out there who would vote for Bernie over Trump but not for any of the other Democratic candidates, that's a pretty good argument for nominating Bernie, right?

of those voters may or may not be out there so that argument makes no sense.

to make the case that Bernie is more electable than Biden?

is to shine a light on the disconnect. There is no place for protest votes when our republic is under grave threat. I don’t give a rats ass who votes for Bernie in the primary. But throwing a vote away in the general if he isn’t the nominee, in order to prove some point or protest is short sighted and selfish.

Instead, it is a good argument for not nominating him. Bernie Sanders is only a Democrat when he must be a Democrat.

Democrats should always vote for Democrats.

It's logical. If there are a lot of voters who would vote Bernie over Trump but not, say, Biden, then we probably want to nominate the guy who can get those votes. At least I do, because my top priority is to defeat Trump.

I mean, we keep hearing about the supposed "moderates" who would vote Biden but Bernie would scare away. Why do those "count" in electability analysis, but not the voters that would vote Bernie but Biden would scare away? A vote is a vote.

People go and vote when they are enthusiastic about the nominee. When they are not, many do not bother to vote at all.

Further, you may not be anticipating just how negative the campaign against Bernie Sanders would be if he became the nominee. Sanders has left behind him in the past all sorts of video, audio, and writings that express things that are far from popular with most people. You have no idea how far the Trump campaign will go to put all of that out there, over and over again.

You like Bernie. Trust me: Not everyone likes Bernie Sanders, even a little bit. Those people will not vote if he is the nominee. They don't have to.

If Bernie Sanders is the nominee, I believe you will see a landslide victory for Donald Trump, assuming he's still around to run, that will come close to the electoral disasters that were 1968 and 1972.

I will vote for Bernie if he is the nominee. I would never miss an opportunity to vote for the Democratic nominee. But, we have lost in huge ways several times. I do not think we can stand to do that again. I think it would mean the end of the United States as we know it.

I'm confident that Joe Biden will be our nominee. He will attract enough voters from the right of center to defeat Trump. He'll undo much of the harm Trump has done, but will probably not be the President to moves us very far in a progressive direction. That will be up to the person who is elected next.

Bernie Sanders cannot win in November. He simply cannot. You might not believe that, but you will if he becomes the nominee, and you will believe it on November 4.

I am aware that Bernie would get hit with a massive negative campaign that brings up all the stupid shit he said in the 70s and calls him a communist. That's a concern. It's also a concern that Trump will go after Biden with an equally massive negative campaign. In fact, that campaign has already started with the Hunter Biden stuff.

My only point was that those people you are talking about, who would vote Bernie but not anyone else, are a reason to support Bernie for the nomination. This is a mathematical fact.

There might be other reasons to support other candidates, and I get that you don't think Bernie can win in November, but the facts you stated in the OP are supportive of Bernie's electability, because they speak of a chunk of voters who we can get to the D side of the ballot only if Bernie is at the top of it.

Maybe there are also "Biden or Bust" voters that will only vote D if Biden is at the top of the ticket. But that's not who you were talking about.

vote for the Democratic nominee if Biden isn't it, please let me know. There are none of those here.

But, as I pointed out, if Bernie is the nominee, there will be many people who are not DUers who will simply skip voting altogether. I guarantee it. They will simply throw up their hands and not vote.

It is a mistake to think that your admiration for Bernie Sanders is shared by a majority of voters. It is not.

That's part of the rules of this board.

Yes, you pointed out that if Bernie is the nominee, lots of people will skip voting. And I pointed out that if Biden is the nominee, also a lot of people will skip voting. Both classes of people exist.

I think it is a mistake to think your admiration for Biden is shared by a majority of voters. It is not. The same people saying all the things you are saying now, were all sure that Hillary was going to trounce Trump. Guess what happened? They were wrong. She lost. Now we've got Biden, who is basically Hillary 2.0, and they're all saying the same things as last time, and giving the same reasons for it. That's a little troubling.

Here's one reason I think that the conventional view, which you share, might be wrong. Joe Rogan. To you, and to the mainstream pundits, he's some bigot with a podcast. And a lot of people here a shocked that Bernie would even associate with someone like that.

But out in the real world, Rogan is enormously popular, probably reaching more people than a lot of the biggest TV names. And his audience has a lot of independents, the kind of independent who would be much more likely vote for Bernie than Biden. The sheer dismissiveness towards Rogan that a lot of people display is a strong reason that I don't trust their election forecasts. I think the vision of "moderate" or "independent" voters that the pro-Biden arguments are based may on have been accurate back in the 90s when Clinton was able to put together a coalition of fiscally conservative centrists, but that's not the country anymore.

he only gets my vote if makes it to the general...and I am betting he won't. I heard that specious argument last time how AA and other moderate (stupid word) voters would vote anyway, but I don't believe it.

What I heard last time is that for every working class vote we lose, we'd pick up two in the suburbs. That didn't work out too great. Now I'm hearing the same kind of thing about the same kind of centrist candidate. And it doesn't fill me with confidence.

Especially when the same people making that argument are also complain about all the voters who will vote for Bernie in the general but not for any of the other candidates. Like I said, if the OP is right about that, it's a reason to nominate Bernie, because we want those votes in the D column and not sitting on the sidelines.

By the way, if you're actually betting Bernie won't make it to the general, you could make some money, because the betting odds have Bernie as the favorite right now.

And as for getting votes...if we showed such disrespect to POC as to nominate Sanders who is not popular with our core supporters AA, I doubt they would come out in numbers that we would need to win. So the idea that Sanders supporters some of who are operation chaos warriors are worth supporting because they won't vote for the Democratic nominee is foolish and wouldn't work anyway. I don't do blackmail.

...is a vote for tRump.

For years, part of the whole shtick of the, for lack of a better word, "establishment" wing of the party (Clinton, Biden etc.) has always been to argue that "getting things done" requires "working across the isle" and that compromises on economic and social policies were necessary to appeal to a broader class of swing voters in swing states and yadda yadda.

But when a candidate actually shows up that (according to a certain narrative that I am not convinced is even true) seems to attract a substantial number of voters who wouldn't vote Democratic otherwise, it is suddenly a bad thing for "reasons".

that really means...that is it OK to thrown women under the bus, POC under the bus and LGBTQ under the bus by welcoming a guy who said among other shitty things that Gay people molest children. No, I will never compromise my principle this way...and Sanders may feel he needs to do this to attract other voters than Democrats in order to win the nomination. But if it means accepting racist shitheads like Rogan, he shouldn't do it. There is nothing worth doing that.

At this point it is pretty clear what you are doing here, and arguing from good faith isn't it. Bye.

The modern Democratic Party will not invite racist scumbags into our party period.

I am a proud member of the Democratic Party

that the refusal to accept racist shitheads like Rogan into our party which has a platform of social justice is a form of discrimination is ridiculous...Racism, anti-LGBTQ and misogyny are not on my spectrum of 'humanity' period.

Last edited Sun Jan 26, 2020, 07:42 PM - Edit history (1)

I doubt this former constable will win the primary. (She's indicted for stuff she did as constable)

She chased some campers out of a park, just so her and her family could get a campsite. (Easter weekend. Campsites are at a premium around here) She's evil. She also would shake down people for cash before bringing them to court or in lieu of arresting them. She also turned off the metal detector in the JP court. She also groped a guy in a hot tub. She also ordered her deputies to stop doing their jobs. She's a piece of work!

Otherwise, I agree with you 100%!!



https://www.ksat.com/news/local/2020/01/24/democratic-candidates-for-sheriff-weigh-in-after-ex-constable-michelle-barrientes-vela-indicted-on-felony-charges/

We hold a primary to decide if we want to keep around the current politician. Too bad some seem to forget that.

Is that if Bernie is getting support from people who would otherwise not vote for a Democrat, that potentially puts him in a stronger position if he wins the nomination, depending on who these people are. I met several people in 2016 who usually vote Green or even Libertarian but would have voted for Bernie if he got the nomination. That is assuming that the people voting for him in the primary are not Republicans trying to game our primaries, but I don't think there is a lot of that, though there is always some in a year when only one party has a competitive primary.

I don't think Sanders has a real chance at the nomination, anyhow. He'll do worse than last time, I predict.