And was looking for an article to post.

In the young age group Bernie is ahead. As the age goes up Biden is way ahead in the older age group.

"You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you"ll join us
And the world will be as one"

I feel optimistic that the young, middle and old will come together and vote, which encompasses all for the Democratic Party's presidential nominee and across board elections.

The young voters didn't turn out en masse to give Sanders the nomination in 2016. They didn't turn out to elect progressives in the blue wave in 2018.

The good news comes with some bad news.

are more ideology driven and easily swayed. The fact is, unless young voters understand the reality, they are likely to really mess up.

If older voters are that reliable, and the top imperative among Democratic voters this year is to remove Trump from office, by and large we can count on older Democrats to show up in November to vote for the Democratic candidate. So where can we tap upside potential? Younger voters, who seemingly need to have their motivation reinforced by Democrats running someone who they literally are enthusiastic about.

Of course that speaks to the November election. If Sanders can't turn out enough younger voters in the primaries he will not get the nomination.

While older Biden voters can be relied upon to support the nominee, the model for winning a Presidential election requires also brining inIndependent and moderate Republicans, especially in the WI/MI/PA battleground States. THere's no evidence that there's an untapped pool of non voting Independent progressives waiting for a Sanders candidacy that will offset lost votes in the middle.

as their second choice, according to some polling reports. While each have some very different supporters there is some overlap on the voter (not organizer) level. Each man inspires some trust among large segments of the working class/ lower middle income class as politicians who both understand the struggles working people face trying to make ends meet, but more importantly, are willing to fight hard to protect them in a nation increasingly beholden to the wealthy.

I don't argue that there is a large pool of non voting Independent progressives waiting for a Bernie Sanders, but his appeal is not strictly based on his ideological stances. All around the world there are increasingly voters willing to swing from right to left to right and then back to left. It isn't ideology driving them for the most part, it is a search for someone who they can trust to shakeup the status quo that they believe is mostly stacked against them. Polling was showing this regarding Sanders in 2016 also but mainstream Democrats always wrote that data off and refused to take it seriously, possibly they didn't understand how "an avowed Socialist" could have that kind of appeal to non self identified progressives.

a promise of freebies.

how a President can't do it all by himself/herself.

Thinking about all the young enthusiasts who help staff party offices, participate in neighborhood canvasses, then are betrayed by their non-voting peers.

I admit I’m still resentful at the 2016 Bernie-philes who were oh so pro-Bernie up to the 2016 Democratic Party convention, then stayed home when the Democratic Party nominee faced off against the Great Con in the general election. I hope they’ve used their time between then and now to reflect and repent, but I fear that all too many of them will give a repeat performance of what they did in 2016.

Why don't they vote? I voted since I was old enough, every two years. I do not understand why these people have to be so "inspired."

It's clear they don't realize we are a Center/Left Country and who will vote in November.

Almost like they don't know about the Electoral College, or actually believe that unicorns and fairy stardust will appear from nowhere to magically convert heartland voters to vote for a Socialist. (and there is no doubt that is how BS will be portrayed and thought of in those areas.)

because they do not support Biden.

Maybe they want to vote with their heart and who they believe will do a better job and mold a country to their true beliefs. God forbid we tell them they should settle for Biden because supposedly he might give us the best chance to beat Trump.

You are probably the parent that tells their kids not to marry for love but for a responsible companion.

My complaint is that they haven’t learned to close ranks and march on.

So your first candidate has been knocked out of the primaries? Well, find another one. So that candidate lost, too, and someone else got the nomination? Well, think of who we’re facing and the disastrous policies they want to shove down our throats to make the oligarchs and End-timer cultists happy. Dry your tears, close ranks, and we’ll march together.

Knocking on doors, canvassing, phone calling.....

Remind me which candidate won the primary in 2008: the establishment candidate or the one promising change that appealed to younger voters?

I like having the energy of engaged younger voters in my district. The ones that work had for Democratic candidates at the local level too, that is. Some of those are vociferously pro-Sanders and anti-Biden. It saddens me that they have picked up some horrible talking points that are just not true, and certainly not helpful if we are going to defeat Trump and someone other than Sanders is the nominee.

I don't like just dismissing them for the anti-Democratic b.s. they sometimes spout ... but I do wonder where they get it from. Their chosen "leader", perhaps?

I do blame Sanders for this generational warfare tone. Every younger person I know who seems to despise (most) of the older generation, is a Sanders supporter.

The generational wafare stems from those (note, not all) of the Gen X and Baby Boomer generations being dismissive of the concerns of Millennials and soon Zoomers. It is a tone deafness I have experienced since I started voting in 2000. We don't share the same life experiences and thus do not share the biases to ideas or words. The biggest mistake the Party leadership can make is continuing to alieante the largest voting block of the next 40 years.

I then proceeded with a gentle lesson about the progress I experienced in my lifetime.

Since I'm not feeling gentle at this moment ...

You want to talk about fucking "tone-deaf"?? Try telling someone that they personally are responsible for ALL the ILLS of the WORLD and have done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING and that YOU and YOURS will fix it if only your Chosen One is elected President!

Yup. That'll do it.

Meanwhile, other than "free college for all" I can't think of one goal that I oppose (long-term at least) of my young friends' platform. I have not been dismissive of anything except their preferred candidate ... and I was supportive of even him in the last round. But I feel betrayed by BS and could not possibly support him this time. I would have respected him more if HE had not been "tone-deaf" and instead of continuing his divisive campaign, had put his energy behind the next best candidate from his perspective. I still do not understand why he had to run again himself, it is not helpful. It is just increasing this very divisiveness.

(I don't appreciate the dismissiveness of the Hillary Haters from the Bernie camp in 2016, btw. Woman are getting more fucked over by the day by this administration, so is the environment = ALL OF US EVEN THE YOUNGER PEOPLE. So yeah, fuck dismissiveness - let's figure out what path BEATS TRUMP and stops the destruction - in 2020. )

Baby Boomers (again, not necessarily you) elected Reagan and started the dismantling of the social safety net, lowering taxes, and giving corporations power. Its how we got to where we are and the status quo from 2008 and 2012 is not going to cut it.

Reagan was awful, yes, but the problems that created his election developed over time from seeds sown long before my generation or the previous one or the previous one to that.

Meanwhile, which generation are we going to blame for Trump?

This is stupid nonsense. I suggest people stop spending so much time blaming other generations, and go learn some history. It would help put the current situation in context and perhaps illuminate patterns of what works, and what definitely doesn't work to actually achieve progress. Oh and maybe some realization that yes, despite setbacks, progress has been achieved by each generation. (I sure wish the founders had actually addressed slavery instead of punting .... but then the U.S. might never have existed. So say some historians anyway.)

My discussion with the millennial who blames everything on my generation centered around my own direct experiences in the progress in the status of African Americans and LGBTQ. But, does that come under "identity politics" and as such is to be scoffed at? (Not for the individuals in my direct experience.)

Technically the Baby Boomers and Silent Generation. Those were the only two groups that voted in a majority for Trump. I agree that social progress has taken over the last 40 years, but economically we have been sliding backwards since the late 70's. I don't understand your anger as all of this is fairly well documented history. Things are broke and we need to go back to higher marginal tax rates (specifically for corporations and the wealthy), implement publicly financed campaigns, and transition to a single payer universal healthcare system.

Sorry you don't understand, the "history" I am referring to is much longer term. The conditions for Reagan did not develop from nothing. People ("boomers" ) didn't wake up one day and say "ooh let's be evil and fuck over the next few generations".

It's the attitude and lack of perspective that bugs me.

I don't like seeing young people I otherwise respect(ed) act like stupid, uneducated assholes and follow a path that will only make things worse, while they broad-brush discriminate against the ideas and experience of a large group of other people.

And yup, that makes me angry. If you ever see someone you care about sucked into a cult, you'll be angry too.

Southern Whites of all generations abandoned the Democratic Party due to our support of civil rights and Reagan’s open courting of States rights fans. Which destroyed the legacy of the party of Lincoln. That elected Reagan.

Until Reagan the South voted Democratic. As they had since Jackson’s days. But fulfilling Johnson’s prediction, they were willing to abandon the policies that had pulled all of them out abject poverty once those policies were extended to people of color.

The modern Republican Party has its foundation laid in racism with support from the pro-business policies it had when it was a northern and western party.

Switching the 13 southern states from Democratic to Republican is the only explanation of the rise of the Republican Party. Any other reason is denying fact staring us in the face.

I lived it. Still do.

In 1980 WW11 and Korean Generation folks still made up a large percentage of the population. I know because I saw my extended family of all generations switch. Ironically, the one group that stayed somewhat Democratic, at least in my family, were the boomers and old GenXers like me. Who lived the civil rights and women rights movement. Although embarrassingly I didn’t. I came in from the cold in my adulthood.

Northern states were always somewhat likely to vote republican. Hell, even Massachusetts had Republican Senators and Governors. But the South was the Solid South. Solid Democratic. Until the Republican Party saw, after George Wallace, that race could be ginned up as the over riding issue here. As it really always has been.

You can’t blame boomers for the entire old confederacy plus Kentucky and Oklahoma going Republican in one generation. Especially in a generation that still had a whole lots of Silent and Greatest generation voters. This was 40 years ago. I grew up with WW11 vets still in their prime. When they went to war in a segregated army uppity blacks could be lynched. They never accepted civil right for people of color.

Read closely. I saw it. I heard it. Still do when I visit family.

Your narrative is too simple, to popular and too incorrect.

But they were always willing to go back to their 100 year old voting pattern. They voted for FDR. But before and after that would often vote republican. Because the Republican Party then was truly conservative. Small government but not openly racist. They were still the party of Lincoln.

When I was a kid California was a Republican state much of the time. We talk about FDR, Truman, and Kennedy. The only reason any but FDR won was the solid south. But don’t talk about Eisenhower(granted, a war hero exception). But Nixon won in a Landslide when boomers could not even vote. Or most of them. And boomers were for Humphrey and McGovern.

Read your history. Except for the FDR period the west, midwest and NE had always been a mixed bag. It was only the South that voted Democratic. Always. Until the civil rights movement. Then the south went republican. But before that many southern states voted for Wallace rather than supporting a civil rights democrat. And those were not boomers. And don’t discount the sway racist rhetoric has in the Midwest.

Racism molded the success of the modern Republican Party. Because it gave them the south. Long before the boomers made their appearance.

The advantage of getting older is I don’t have to depend on what I read. I’ve lived it. When I was a kid elections in the South were decided in the Democratic primary. Now they are decided in the Republican primary. And to discount the total realignment of 13 states as not changing America is being a slave to preconceived notions. Were the 13 southern states still Democratic we would not be having this discussion.

I’ve enjoyed this discussion. I’ve not posted here much for various reasons. But thanks for the respectful talk. Have a nice evening. I’m old! It’s almost my bedtime!

that because I'm an older voter that my vote seems less important.

Keep that in mind, unless you want a repeat of 2016

Myself that is, with a background similar to Bernire's.

OK I am younger than Bernie, but just a little.

More importantly, turnout at the polls by older voters far exceeds turnout by younger ones, historically. Not just recently, but clear back into the 1960s. I see no indication that that record is about to change in 2020.

Even more importantly than that is turnout in primary elections and caucuses (although there are far fewer of those now). Only the most dedicated voters bother to turn out for primaries, making that turnout far, far lower than in general elections. Again, older voters are far more likely to vote in primaries than younger ones. History demonstrates that as well.

The first four primaries are just the beginning. Delegate counts after those are done will show Joe Biden leading, due to the South Carolina primary, which occurs very shortly before Super Tuesday.

Then, Super Tuesday happens. Once it is over, we'll see for the first time how the voters in states that have a more balanced demographic profile feel. Joe Biden is very likely to come out even more in the lead, percentage-wise than previously.

However, the real measure, as always in presidential primary races, will show in the estimated delegate count. If, for example, as polls currently indicate, delegate counts are fairly even in states like IA and NH, it will be as though the primaries began on Super Tuesday, where such an outcome is highly unlikely.

After Super Tuesday's primaries, we will begin to see a picture of the race, based on projected delegate counts, that will get magnified in later Primaries. The die will be cast at that point, and you should be able to see who is in the lead quite distinctly.

To watch the delegate counts following each round of primaries, visit the website below: That's the one that reporters everywhere rely on for the best projection of delegate numbers:

https://www.thegreenpapers.com/P20/D

And a pitiful 36% for the 18-29 year olds. Yes, it went up in 2018, but was still pitifully low.

Maybe it will go up again in 2020. I'm not sure about the primary elections, though. Turnout in primaries is way lower than in the general election. Will younger voters show up? Hard to say, really. We'll see, I suppose.

Now, do you have stats about how many voters in each age group voted? I don't see any numbers there. Just percentages.

If this claim - one that Sanders supporters have been making for five years now - were true, he would have done much better in the 2016 primaries. Despite all claims to the contrary, when it came down to it, they didn't show up for him.

In contrast, turnout was at near-record numbers in 2018, we won nearly every open seat, and the vast majority of seats we picked up were by moderate Dems in conservative-leaning districts. I don't see how Sanders had much, if anything, to do with that.

And polls show that a significant number of people who support Bernie in the primary wouldn't support any other candidate in the GE.

As far as 2016, Bernie did much, much, better than anybody thought possible. I mean, people were saying that he'd never get past 10%, comparing him to Dennis Kucinich, all that. This is one reason the conventional wisdom, when it comes to Bernie, is suspect. He actually did bring out huge numbers of voters, just not as many as Hillary did.

But then, Hillary went on to lose the general election, unfortunately.

at the Iowa caucus. The two-hour commitment the caucus requires sorts out the less-than-devoted.

I'll happily be sharing my first-hand account, as an enthusiastic participant!

This year may be different. You Biden people better hope that there is low youth voter turn out and that the shuttle services are many and frequent going back and forth from retirement communities to polling places during this primary. ALSO I would suggest that Biden up his internet social media game. Outside of DU the Bernie campaign has FLOODED the internet with pro Bernie podcasts galore on youtube. There is ZERO pro Biden presense that i can find out there refuting what the Bernie people are putting out , the mocking Biden memes in regards to his record and short tempered behavior on the campaign trail The only place I see pro Biden stuff is in comments sections of mainstream media from boomers! Are there any Biden YOUTH groups? I can't find any. Bernie has many!

I don't think the Bernie detractors realize how MASSIVE his ground game is. The Bernie people never stopped building the movement behind the scenes after 2016. I have been paying attention and I haven't seen anything like this in my whole life! I cannot WAIT to see how this will unfold!

IOW, everything newer ain't always better.

Being an engineer, I like data and numbers so let's look at some, shall we? Progressives don't even make up half of the Democratic Party for crying out loud...

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/06/26/facts-about-democrats/

Bernie can flood the internet with as many slick vids and podcasts as he wants but if the numbers ain't there then they just aren't there. Add in Indies and Pubbies and progressives probably make up only around 20% of the total population, give or take. Appealing to that group alone while alienating everybody else is potentially a recipe for disaster in a general election no matter how despised the opponent (see McGovern vs Nixon circa 1972 for proof).

Before you throw a flame back just be advised that I myself am a progressive and a proud card-carrying member of that ~20% minority. I believe many of the policies that Bernie (and also Warren) advocates would turn out to be very beneficial for many people in the country whether they realize it or not. But the pragmatist in me also realizes that we aren't gonna get from where we are now to where we eventually need to be overnight or even next year.

My idealistic heart says we should go full-bore progressive but my realistic head says we need to go centrist-left this time around. One step at a time, grasshoppah. I recommend that my fellow Democrats use their heads this primary season unless they want it handed back to them in November.

"You Biden people had better hope".... This is not helpful in my opinion. I admire your enthusiasm, however, I really do not think that Bernie will be the nominee. That said, if Bernie is not the nominee, I wonder how many of his supporters will vote for the eventual nominee whether it be Joe Biden or someone else. Would you work for and support the eventual nominee if it is not Bernie? Just curious.

it's what helped give us Drumpf.

To the Hillary supporters credit back in 2008, at least after they blew off some bitter steam and made idle threats they finally came around and heavily supported Obama which led to two decisive presidential victories. Obama and Sanders voters in 2016 were not so magnanimous...a certain amount of Obama voters actually flipped over to Dirty Don and some disgruntled Sanders supporters stayed home altogether.

Brilliant strategy, that. So brilliant in fact that I'm not sure the country can survive a repeat performance.

I've seen Bernie love on campuses. It's unbelievable how many Bernie stickers I see on cars. Bernie t-shirts, Bernie wristbands, Bernie-shaped cookies. Lol

Is that the plan?

Yes, older people will reliably vote.

But the number of older Democrats is not sufficient to beat Trump.

I had thought that we wanted to beat Trump, not just keep Sanders out. Was I wrong on that?

Think of this... in my state the base of the Democratic base is African Americans. You think they are going to be excited to vote for a man whose supporters they saw boo the great John Lewis?

Getting the young vote is important. The African American vote is essential.

People don’t forget. Nor forgive some things.

But fortunately they will handle that in the primary. Hopefully all Democratic and left leaning people will respect that.