Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumThis Is How Trump Would Destroy Bernie Sanders
The BulwarkFurther, Americans of many stripes are endemically dubious about the quality and responsiveness of government programs. Having suffered the ministrations of their local Bureau of Motor Vehicles, they imagine standing in line, literally and figuratively, to receive mediocre healthcare.
Then there is cost. Asked about this, Sanders has said I dont give a number and Ill tell you why: its such a large number and so complicated that if I gave a number you and 50 other people would go through it say, Oh
Instead, Sanders argues generally that all but the wealthy would save moreby abolishing premiums, copayments, and deductiblesthan they would pay in increased taxes. But Sanders rarely mentions the failure of his home state of Vermont to enact a single-payer programprecisely because no one in either party could figure out how to pay for it. Come September, Trump would not be quite so reticent.
A candidate less doctrinaire than Sanders would appreciate that Republicans have gift wrapped this issue by attempting to abolish Obamacare and, with it, popular protections such as coverage for pre-existing conditions. All Democrats need do is give Americans a choice between private insurance and Medicare for those who want it. The alternative is electoral malpracticea self-inflicted debate mired in charges that the Democrats are narrowing choice and raising taxes. Which is exactly what Bernie promises his nominal party.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
heckles65
(549 posts)I don't know about other states, but I live in Vermont, and the DMV there is aces. Go in, there's a person there that directs you to right line, take a number, sit down, 15-20 minutes later max you leave with what you wanted.
If health care worked like that, I'd be very happy. Other than that, I agree with the crux of the article. The Republicans are gift wrapping the issue and Bernie will blow it.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
George II
(67,782 posts)....hindering it) just fine.
Why throw out systems that are working (current Medicare, the ACA, and insurance) and start from scratch?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MH1
(17,600 posts)When appropriate I remind people that it actually works very well, most of the time. Sometimes one has to pay attention to the rules though.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
George II
(67,782 posts)....and needed an immediate replacement in order sell my car.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Rilgin
(787 posts)The ACA had some benefits for some (not all) Americans at a huge cost. It is truly working for the Insurance Companies. For actual people it works with varying degrees of benefit ranging from good to not at all. Basically it shifts people without work supplied insurance (with its own co pays and problems) to insurance that may or may not be actually usable by the people forced to buy it. All this while siphoning off a huge part of the American Economy directly to the Insurance Companies rather than patients.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Autumn
(45,120 posts)enlarges. The ACA isn't working well.The GOP has cut it till it's bleeding with no stopping.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
George II
(67,782 posts)Plus, it only has 44 million enrollees. There are 330 million Americans, meaning it would have to be expanded by more than 700%.
It's simply not workable as presented.
The ACA is working fine in states that have accepted it.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Autumn
(45,120 posts)And no, due to what the republicans have done to it it is not working fine in all states that have accepted it Healthcare premiums are rising. And it certainly isn't working in the 14 states that didn't expanded their Medicaid programs.
https://www.healthinsurance.org/blog/2019/07/26/12-ways-the-gop-sabotaged-obamacare/
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/republicans-killed-much-of-obamacare-without-repealing-it/
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
George II
(67,782 posts)"The ACA is working fine in states that have accepted it."
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
SamKnause
(13,110 posts)I have had experiences in 3 DMV's in Ohio, and all were fast and swift.
I am almost 67.
I have never had a piece of mail lost.
The Post Office has a pretty good track record.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ritapria
(1,812 posts)The median family of 4 ( with an income of 60,000 dollar a year) pay 20% of their income on healthcare premiums . If you contract cancer , there is 50% chance your life savings will evaporate to nothing .
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Recursion
(56,582 posts)That's just empirically false.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LonePirate
(13,431 posts)Seriously, what is the difference between The Bulwark and FR or NRO or The Federalist?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
calimary
(81,459 posts)Or the enemys mindset from which they will wage their attacks.
Sometimes it can help us prepare to take them on.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LonePirate
(13,431 posts)The OP is nothing more than a right wing smear of Sanders masked as an expose on opposition research.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Ron Green
(9,823 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
DanTex
(20,709 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Quixote1818
(28,968 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Mr.Bill
(24,319 posts)If Bernie is the nominee, expect the word "communist" in Trump's tweets about 50 times a day. Of course that wont affect those of us here, but don't underestimate how much it will do to turn out and sway independents and Trumps base.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
jalan48
(13,883 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Mr.Bill
(24,319 posts)was that if government was the problem, why did Reagan want to be the head of it? I love to ask Reagan worshippers that.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
jalan48
(13,883 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
calimary
(81,459 posts)YES thats a legitimate question.
Because I just wanna blow it all up...
Okay. So when you blow it all up, are YOU the one who will be trying to live in the wreckage? Or will you then plead poverty and say we cant afford to fix it but we do have to cut taxes?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
the_sly_pig
(741 posts)Want to be overcharged for healthcare and medication? I dont think so....
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
rickyhall
(4,889 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Autumn
(45,120 posts)how we pay for healthcare.
The Pentagon made $35 trillion in accounting adjustments last year alone -- a total thats larger than the entire U.S. economy and underscores the Defense Departments continuing difficulty in balancing its books.
The latest estimate is up from $30.7 trillion in 2018 and $29 trillion in 2017, the first year adjustments were tracked in a concerted way, according to Pentagon figures and a lawmaker whos pursued the accounting morass.
The figure dwarfs the $738 billion of defense-related funding in the latest U.S. budget, a spending plan that includes the most expensive weapons systems in the world including the F-35 jet as well as new aircraft carriers, destroyers and submarines.
Within that $30 trillion is a lot of double, triple, and quadruple counting of the same money as it got moved between accounts, said Todd Harrison, a Pentagon budget expert with the Center for Strategic and International Studies.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/pentagon-racks-up-35-trillion-in-accounting-changes-in-one-year/ar-BBZcVdy
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Midnightwalk
(3,131 posts)Im for cutting the defense budget and fixing their corrupt accounting.
But as you say 35 trillion is more than the economy. It is almost 50 times the size of the defense budget. Even with 10 year numbers defense is 7-8 trillion.
In other words I have no idea how there can be 35 trillion of accounting errors. It must mean something but it isnt a 35 trillion dollar pool of cash.
We cant use that 35 trillion to pay for anything unless it is savings rather than accounting mumbo jumbo.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Autumn
(45,120 posts)They get more and more every year, so does the military. They are given more than they ask for. They can tighten their belt and account for their funding. Just like the state. If they don't use it in a year they lose it.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Midnightwalk
(3,131 posts)Defense gets 700 billion a year. 7 trillion in 10 years.
I have no idea what they mean by 35 trillion of accounting errors, but it cant mean there is 35 trillion in savings. You cant save more than what is being spent.
Cutting the defense budget to pay for healthcare reform is a logical argument.
Taking an accounting fraud number that is 5 times bigger than the 10 year budget and trying to call that a funding source makes no sense.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Autumn
(45,120 posts)budget are too fucking big. We can afford them but we can't afford healthcare. I think that's what makes no sense instead of you cant save more than what is being spent. You know they don't save anything.
The problem is that they spend enough to have to adjust by a number of dollars bigger than the entire US economy. We will never know, there is no accountability.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Midnightwalk
(3,131 posts)Fine. That was my point.
I already said in each reply what most people here say. Cut the defense budget. Use the savings for healthcare. If we cut by half thats 3.5 trillion over 10 years. Thats a large chunk of money but not enough. Thats why everyones plans have other funding sources, usually by raising other taxes.
And I agree thats what we should do. Ill go further and say we have to cut healthcare costs by half. That is there are huge savings to be had if we got our costs in line with other countries.
My reaction was only to the implication that there was 35 trillion to be saved from the accounting scandal.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Autumn
(45,120 posts)for the pentagon and the military to get more money the politicians will give them whatever they want and more without giving a shit about numbers. Then they will scream we can't afford healthcare.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
rickyhall
(4,889 posts)Lincoln knew it & spoke about it, so did Eisenhower.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
irisblue
(33,022 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BirdandSquirrel
(36 posts)Is very narrow minded and short sighted. The arguments raised would surely ooze from the mouth of Jaba-The-Smut, but would be easily countered by the Sanders campaign as fear mongering, absent of fact, and purely designed to scare people away from that from which they would all benefit mightily. Using examples like Denmark, Sweden, Canada, and Great Britain, the oozer of lies, would be exposed to everyone as the Fascist fear spreader, that he is. Hell, even just using the example of Medicare right here in our own country, Bernie would mop the floor with him on that topic alone.
This country is becoming too socially conservative, and the original post proves that point without any shadow of a doubt. America should be the most socially liberal country on earth. Our very own Constitution is the guidebook for a liberal society. But I see more and more people who profess to be liberals, relying on the big book of lies to form their social agendas. As a country, we MUST put that pile of garbage back into it's proper place in society, on the shelf with all of the other children's books filled with Fables and Fairy Tales. We should be fighting to make children in school, learn all about the United States Constitution, instead of having to fight to keep BS out of the minds of impressionable children.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
bucolic_frolic
(43,281 posts)is a difficult sell in most Congresses. Sanders' ability to schmooze and jawbone may be fine, but there is no substitute for party discipline, horsetrading, favors. It was said President Carter had little pull on Capitol Hill. IMO Sanders would have difficulty leading for lack of cooperation.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Autumn
(45,120 posts)isn't known for horsetrading, favors. They will not work with ANY president that isn't a Puke. Take that to tha bank. Someone has to say I'm doing it on day one.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
BirdandSquirrel
(36 posts)all of that pandering to right wing zealots work for Barack Obama? And I suppose that having a republican like Uncle Joe, cutting every social safety net that he can find, would be a better result.
We have had all of the wall street-hugging politicians that we can stand. We are in dire need of politicians that will stand up to wall street, big pharma, and oil and gas.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Scurrilous
(38,687 posts)He's going scorched earth over something that'll never pass the Senate.
3 Democratic Senators have publicly said no. He has no path to get the votes.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
OliverQ
(3,363 posts)Why would we listen to anything a Republican has to say about who is the best Dem candidate?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
TreasonousBastard
(43,049 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(145,553 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
highplainsdem
(49,034 posts)hammered on that every day.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(145,553 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(145,553 posts)Link to tweet
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primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(145,553 posts)Link to tweet
Sanders' plan would also increase the size of government far more than any modern Republican president, including Ronald Reagan, has sought to cut it, Summers' analysis concluded.
"On the spending side, ... this is far more radical than all previous presidencies, on either the right or the left," Summers said in an interview. "The Sanders spending increase is roughly 2.5 times the size of the New Deal and the estimated fiscal impact of George McGovern's campaign proposals. This is six times as large of a growth of government than any of the Ronald Reagan dismemberments. We are in a kind of new era of radical proposal."
Exact cost projections on all of Sanders' proposals aren't available, in part because he hasn't fully fleshed out some of the ideas he's embraced (such as universal pre-K and child care). But a wide variety of estimates put the likely cost of the single-payer health care plan he has endorsed around $30 trillion or more over the next decade. Depending on the estimates used, including projections from his own campaign, the other elements of the Sanders agenda -- ranging from his "Green New Deal" to the cancellation of all student debt to a guaranteed federal jobs program that has received almost no scrutiny -- could cost about as much, or even more than, the single-payer plan. That would potentially bring his 10-year total for new spending to around $60 trillion, or more.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(145,553 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden