Single payer will be a deflationary event. You don’t raise taxes in that sort of environment.

But the bigger issue is a pretty humdrum logistical one: we have providers and facilities grouped together in well-served wealthy areas and sparse on the ground in poorly-served poor areas, and whatever plan we do is going to have to change that fact. Providers are going to need to move. Even Sanders doesn't seem to be contemplating actually drafting providers into a new NHS-style system, so it's going to have to be done with financial incentives (which means the price goes up). But more politically worrying than the price is that it means people are going to not be able to see "their" doctor, since "their" doctor is now somewhere that was underserved in the old system.

that are ancillary to the financing issue.

Even if we paid most doctors more, the elimination of private insurance industry, subsequent financial losses (world wide), and paperwork/EMR efficiencies to be had still by far outweigh a labor price increase (should be mentioned that higher income earners have higher propensity to save and not spend).

My point is we should be talking about a tax cut to offset an offset.

US doctors make twice the OECD average, and our healthcare costs twice the OECD average. That's not a coincidence. We're going to need to find a way to get doctors to accept European-level salaries.

But notice they don’t want to talk about that. It’s as though they believe if they don’t talk about it, everyone will just move on. Meanwhile it’s a Trump ad makers dream.

As Bernie has said he will do with his health plan.

Also, the two issues have fuck all to do with each other, so there’s that.

We pay for it the same way every other industrialized nation does it: we make it a damn priority. Cutting out the profiteers will save money and reduce costs. There should be no profiting off the sick.

Also, “How do we pay for it?” is a standard republican talking point used against any form of progress in this country. Interesting to see that validated here.

I said pretty much the same thing

"Make it a damn priority" and get it done.

I wholeheartedly agree.

I think Warren has that kind of mindset.

When I’m up on a mountain and see a town I just walk a straight line to get there. Other people are there so why would I bother with a trail or road. Those are for people who don’t believe in towns.

There. Paid for it and saved millions of lives too!

It's obviously possible for Congress to come up with the $3 trillion a year it will cost; the problem is that moving all providers to Medicare reimbursement rates is going to force about half of the hospitals in the country to close, and most doctors to reorganize into group practices. It's not that "it can't be done" but that the fallout is going to be pretty intense.

Even that is manageable, but the problem is we have repeatedly said, and we will keep saying, "you can keep your doctor", even though everybody knows this is complete bullshit. A whole lot of providers are in the "wrong" places, and we're going to need to move doctors from well-served areas to poorly-served areas (this is kind of the entire point), which means that you may or may not be able to keep "your" doctor. And that's where all hell breaks loose.

It often happens that someone has to change doctors because their employer changed the plan they were on.

This is kind of like what bit Obama, with his "you can keep your doctor" 'lie'. He meant that nothing in the ACA itself forces you to change doctors. But the ACA brought about changes which, in the end, did prompt some carriers to decide on their own that they were no longer going to offer certain policies (something that they were always able to do anyway, and something they can still do), and yeah, if they do that, you may have to choose a new doctor.

In all of these health care reform questions there's a huge stumblingblock: a large plurality of voters who have private insurance and really like it and don't want people messing around with it.

There was blow back too - funded by Americans for Prosperity and other Koch Brothers fronts and right wing hit machines...
The American people at large are a collective moron, subject to being mislead and confused easily by "what-about-isms", propaganda and outright lies. If you doubt me, just look at the current squatter in the White House as exhibit 1a...

private insurance as opposed to what we would pay with single payer? It's not all that complicated. Then there's the bloated military spending that no one mentions for fear of being eviscerated by the media and the bribing class for being soft on the ism of the day.

There are a lot of people who get private insurance through their employer and pay little or nothing in premiums. If you hit them with a payroll tax to replace the employer contribution they're going to go apeshit.

Understand that his plan in 2016 called for 2% payroll tax on the employee’s side, with matching 2% from employers. I calculated it wouldn’t hurt our office expenses too much ... we already pay about the same for private insurance for employees but I wondered how many voters would be happy to see higher payroll taxes. Wages are stagnant and to take more out of payroll can be a shock

living paycheck to paycheck, and then slip in another deduction -- it is a very dishonest tactic. We are completely disgusted at the dishonesty about this deduction. How are they going to insult and browbeat 160 million on private insurance into swallowing a payroll deduction like that.

and I've watched to see when Sanders supporters would be forthcoming about it, but they never are.

So I'm not against broad tax increases, I just think you need to be upfront about them.

"Kennedy stood before Congress on May 25, 1961, and proposed that the US "should commit itself to achieving the goal, before this decade is out, of landing a man on the Moon and returning him safely to the Earth." ... Kennedy took a two-day visit to Houston in September 1962 to view the new facility."

As far as I can tell he didn't say "here's how we'll pay for it"

He said we need to do it lets do it.

There's nothing wrong with saying that every person in this country needs to have health care. There's nothing wrong with committing to something you don't know how to do. We never get anywhere without trying. And those who aim higher and farther are the ones who will get us closer to the mark.

Instead of doubting, instead of saying OH it can't be done... if people really believed that we could achieve universal health care in this country, we would.

Also, this is exactly what I don't like about Biden. He's a wimp. "Oh but it can't be passed in congress so we shouldn't even try"

Make no mistake, because we have to declare our loyalty to party above all else these days even though it should be a FING given if I'm on DU I'm voting dem, I'll vote for whoever gets the nomination. But we're screwed if it's Biden.

Right now we need big pushes, big dreams. With Biden it's either going to be baby steps or "I'm sorry republicans, please don't hurt me."

And we're doomed either way.

We're talking about something on the order of $3 trillion a year

He needs to get grilled on this. His followers believe this:

'We will have Medicare for All when tens of millions of people are prepared to stand up & tell the insurance companies & the drug companies that their day is gone, that health care is a human right, not something to make huge profits off of.' wers really think the revolution can get his agenda passed.'

Got this today - 'Millions of us go to work passing Bernie's plans! You didn't think our responsibility ends at the voting booth did you?' It's messed up and I can't explain in a tweet so I wish them good luck w/ the future.

Of course that’s a general election loser but that’s what he’s planning to do as far as how it would be paid for.

Elizabeth Warren probably thought that too.

The best thing is for all the candidates to keep it positive. We don't need to be giving the GOP talking points for the general election, regardless of who gets the nomination.

is a Trumpian tactic.

Actually, Elizabeth Warren started dropping when she started attaching costs to all her proposals, especially M4all. Bernie never bothers with such details, which is why this thread is relevant and interesting.

I thought so.

Anytime the hypocrisy is called out.

without pushing back.

The Sacred Cow status just keeps getting more and more gilded.

You guys are really onto something...

I just don't know what that something else is... brown acid?

DOA

DOA

..can you imagine trump* using it to get his stupid wall??

don't have any problem with HHS having their entire medical history. And, yeah, I share the unease at turning the keys to anything over to the next Mitch McConnell. But living in society always has risks.

Make it a payroll tax, make it a VAT, make it something: I don't care. But don't simply dump the funding for health care into the general fund.

at plans for sis in law...and I found this little nugget . It you have a Medicare Advantage plan and want to go back to regular medicare...pre-existing conditions kick in...ridiculous.

Of how it's paid for -it's not a plan.

Example - Biden has point blank stated - he will work with the House and Senate to get a 15% minimum tax from large enterprise businesses. . . IE Amazon, Microsoft, Google, Verizon, Verizon Wireless, Wal-Mart, etc. etc.

Andy Yang - Pretty clear about the minimum income and the realities of automation.

Klobuchar - No - we are not under any circumstances taking hunters guns away. That's not a thing.


These are three things that could kill them with the left - yet they are putting it out there.

He needs to put it out there.

law, like they did with Obamacare.

Bernie's job is to make sure that people understand what single payer will do for this country, and he does an incredible job.

And has said so repeatedly. That’s going to be a real winner in the fall if he’s the nominee. If there’s one thing those in the middle class love it’s tax increases. That’s why so many successful general election campaigns have been built around middle class tax increases. It’s a winner!

Link to tweet