biggest bone to pick.

Yes, I oppose corporate funded centrist lobby groups like Third Way that are trying to get Dems to cut Social Security. I'm also opposed to Republicans like Jennifer Rubin trying to tell us who we should nominate. Is that a bad thing?

We all know that centrist (or should I say "centrist" ) lobby groups are out there trying to cut social security and other benefits. Third Way is just one example.

Lobbying groups are not running for election.

It is a smear that there are only centrist/moderate Democrats who listen to lobbying groups

It is also spurious to think "attacks" - I say vetting or setting the record straight -- against Bernie Sanders are not working. The same was thought by Jeremy Corbyn and he lost badly.

Berniewill not win the nomination. In many Southern states, he will not get a single delegate because of the 15% rule.

However, please proceed in your dreaming while IA and NH, two small northern non-diverse states do not matter to Biden

I'm actually pleasantly surprised that the candidates themselves have been relatively mild in going after each other so far. That's a good thing, because one of them is going to be the nominee, and that nominee needs to beat Trump.

That would be AP and Politifact.

I'm not aware of lobbying groups supporting either.

I look forward to your links.

And you consider this to be "mild?"



https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2020/jan/09/bernie-sanders/did-biden-laud-paul-ryan-proposal-cut-social-secur/

who are "backing" the 'anti-bernie smears" like the fact checks in Politifact and articles Associated Press that quote him word for word.

Trying to portray Bernie as wanting to cut Social Security is going to convince zero people. Inside the bubble of Bernie-haters, I know they thought "we really got him now," but in the real world everyone knows that the only kind of changes to Social Security that Bernie has ever been in favor of have been increases.

But keep going down that road, by all means.

Can you point that out?

Also anything else false in the article, because it's only an "attack" if it's false.

For example, this:



https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2020/jan/09/bernie-sanders/did-biden-laud-paul-ryan-proposal-cut-social-secur/

Thanks.

hold a campaign accountable, more so when it goes on the attack. Bernie has a strong personality and an assertive agenda. Naturally, folks form strong reactions to him, whether positive or negative. I’d like to see his campaign and supporters roll with the punches. That would gain him wider respect.

He would never accomplish anything without both more moderate house and Senate.

The devotees' hail marys notwithstanding

He won with 56% of the vote (?) I thought we cleared this up during the debate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_history_of_Bernie_Sanders#1990

sanders and Sirota lied about Joe Biden and social security . sanders has called for cuts also https://apnews.com/31c432f20acba807a569c7004abaf473

Get real...

And everyone knows this. People who already hate Bernie think this stuff is a "gotcha". But nobody actually believes Bernie is soft on Social Security. Even his haters. A clue on that is that the very people who want to cut social security are the people attacking Bernie.

and doesn't rail against the free press when they don't flatter him under the label "haters."

See also "centrists."

And apparently feel the same about anyone who shares those articles....

This is very similar to how Trump supporters react when the free press does the same to him.

been eligible at age 65...

Fact: Bernie has stated in the past that "adjustments" to SS benefits would be necessary to keep SS solvent.

Both are a matter of public record. Pointing that out his statements, especially when he misrepresents other candidates's statements on SS does not = saying that he is currently suggesting cutting or adjusting benefits.

It's an election year after all. He'd never ever say that even if he, in the past, publicly praised a law that did exactly that.

You can copy and paste "people will never believe that Bernie wants to cut SS" as much as you want, but others will look at the facts in an objective manner.

Or did you decide it was "bullshit" without bothering to read it, as you stated you do in the OP?



Why do you think that AP would make that up?

It seems that some who support Sanders are as upset as Trump supporters are at the free press when it doesn't simply act as stenographer and repeat what their favored candidates says.

The only changes to SS Bernie has ever supported has been to increase it. This is obvious. Good luck trying to convince anyone otherwise.

Where does the article state that Bernie "wants to cut SS?"

Are you saying that the statements that the article attributes to Sanders are false?

What credentials do you have that AP does not? Why should we believe someone who simply says, "that's false" after mischaracterizing what the article is actually about?

Everyone knows this, and everyone knows Bernie hasn't. People who hate Bernie think they have a "gotcha", but let's be serious. Is anyone going to think Biden (or anyone else) is more committed to expansive social programs than Bernie? No, of course not. That's why the people who actually do want to cut SS (like Third Way, who is explicitly and openly in favor of SS cuts) are attacking Bernie.

....freezing Social Security (except once for only a year, in exchange for other concessions from republicans)

So now it's Third Way, not "bernie haters"?

He's on record even bragging about trying to freeze it "not once, not twice..." He was part of the Obama admin that proposed reducing COLA.

I'm not saying he's like Third Way or anything. Third Way has constantly been trying to cut SS and other benefits the entire time. Biden has been back and forth, and now he's running on a plan to protect and increase SS, to his credit. But he hasn't been as consistently pro-SS as Bernie has.

Can you also provide some links to back up your claim that "Third Way has constantly been trying to cut SS and other benefits the entire time."

Because you haven't really shown that you are up on the facts concerning this topic.

Third Way wanting to cut SS? It's not hard to find...

https://www.crfb.org/blogs/third-way-introduces-new-social-security-reform-plan
https://www.thirdway.org/report/collision-course-why-democrats-must-back-entitlement-reform

Bernie wanting to cut Social Security...

in an AP article, and not a 'grainy video.' He praised a law signed by Reagan that cut benefits. Had Biden done that you'd be saying that he was slavering to cut benefits...

That's really got you on edge, hasn't it? Nervous laughter and the accusation that somehow this article is saying that Bernie currently wants to cut SS... when it's just pointing out his record and public statements on it.

You think his own words are an attack? That certainly doesn't sound like you have much confidence in Sanders, does it?

Since you likely didn't have the courage to read the article before commenting on it, here is the relevant text:

I don't think the OP is understanding it. I'd back away. You are wasting your time.

This is one who has to get used to the vetting NOW. If they think that the GOP is never going to say a bad word about Sanders just because the GOP applauds him now? Just wait.

sanders and Sirota lied about Biden and was caught

I am glad that a very weak general election candidate like sanders is being vetted. If sanders is the nominee, trump will win 45+ states and Kevin McCarthy will be speaker of the House

Well written - and oh so true

who have the guts to speak about the 2 most important issues facing America; income inequality and corporate influence over politics, Bernie and Liz.

FDR wouldn't have a prayer in today's climate, heck, Teddy Roosevelt would be deemed too progressive, not just too progressive for the Republican party.

And Roosevelt wouldn't pass muster as a progressive because he was a huge eugenics proponent and nationalist anti-immigration policies.

by restricting them to white men.

This extended to other government employees as well, those of color who worked in the federally planned and constructed communities that were built to house the top secret research for the Manhattan project lived in squalor, while the white people lived in tract homes.

https://www.nbm.org/secret-cities-architecture-planning-manhattan-project-open-national-building-museum/

we are to take FDR as a pioneer for the kind of creative economic change we want to see, we need
to acknowledge the catastrophic results his immigration policies inspired and how severely racism limited his vision so as not to appear to condone these lethal inequities.

https://narrativedisruptions.wordpress.com/disrupting-the-myth-of-franklin-d-roosevelt-in-the-age-of-trump-sanders-and-clinton/

Google has more, but here he is backing the cuts in Simpson Bowles.
https://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/11/08/scolding-both-sides-bloomberg-calls-for-deficit-reduction/

I don't know if he's even taken a position on SS during this campaign, but it's absurd to deny that Bloomberg has supported SS cuts consistently. I don't know if he's ever not been in favor of SS cuts.

You proved it! Case closed!


(Maybe you're starting to see why attacks on Bernie are falling flat...)

and answering the question why Russia was backing Bernie and Stein during 2016, as the Mueller report revealed.

And a completely failed attempt to "own" the conversation with a non-seqitur...



What's the old saying about a pigeon and a chess board again?

Yes, sure - that may apply mostly to the strong kernel of support for the movement: those that never (or won't admit to) watch cable news. But that kernel is out on the streets and talking to everyone - yes everyone - about the movement. And the support for all of the other candidates is rather soft.
And here's where MSM has hooped itself: They make the narrative of who is most electable, and its starting to look like Bernie has the advantage as far as not only delegates, but EC votes in the general. Biden's electablility story is showing itself to be the thin cloth it is.
Then, be prepared for an avalanche!

stay over with the Trump supporters.

We're a bit more fact based than they are.

said the russian bots will do anything to split the democratic party. Period.

certainly don't have much faith in their candidate.

Is that in the same fictional numerical quantity as "a chunk?"

And you like characterizing sharing Bernie's own words as "an attack" if it makes you sad.

I get it... objective data supporting an argument is inconvenient-- editorials containing at least seven explicit logical fallacies and pretending objective truth are far more easier.

It's what commercial branding is all about. And Bernie's campaign has effectively branded and packaged him as something other than what he is... another career politician.




Or just continue complaining about people complaining about people-- holding others to a higher standard than we hold ourselves to works too, I guess.

We didn’t drink the kool-aid.

Welcome to Vetting 101.

I guess the OPs idea of "party unity" is anyone who is NOT what he classifies as a "centrist or establishment" Democrat

Brillant strategy to alienate a large segment of the Democratic party.

We will see how that works out come Super Tuesday

how many votes a small tent delivers.

Truthfully - in the GE - the Candidate will be harangued, harassed, belittled, demeaned - and that's all just from MF45.

This is part of the process. Everyone needs to get a thick skin and keep an eye on the prize.

I could make a similar case for the attacks on Biden, although the reasoning would be a tad different.

But that’s not what I want to talk about

When I arrive at work met with blood and feces and trying to save lives in a broken system, it’s not Bernie I think of. It’s a complex layered structure, healthcare and I’ve yet to hear one single politician address American healthcare with reality, other than Hillary Clinton. And that was in the 90’s. If that makes me a “centrist” fine. I’m used to language and changing goalposts. I remember when I became a “radical feminist”

Young Doctors are hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt. It’s a path fewer have chosen. Books, institutions, professors and teachers all play into his cost. As does cost of living. Forgiving debt is great. Then what? Oh yes. Tax Wall street. I believe that takes a legislative process.

Climate change has been on the table since Al fucking Gore,— actually before that— and part of what needs to happen is a rejection of the consumerist lifestyle. Once down that rabbit hole, intellectually with plastics and oil, there is never any going back.

My oldest daughter, a late genz or an early millennial (I was a young mama) who is neither a republican or a Democrat (they are both awful she says, but this is better than her “republican” leanings after her deployment) has the smallest carbon footprint of anybody I know. It’s amazing. And she really dislikes Bernie Sanders.

Obama tried will climate and some of his efforts are still bearing fruit, but it wasn’t enough. Why? Because people stop listening at the point it interferes with their comfort.

Like in matters with race

I work with a lot of educated Millennials, mostly white, and most of them have had some exposure to public Health and social justice. Some of them love Bernie, but a lot of them feel as I do, that the typical broad outlines presented a “plans” Bernie Sanders and other candidates present aren’t realistic. They are kind of indifferent. When you work in healthcare you see policy roll out in real time, like the ACA. The sheer need overwhelmed that system, and I hope whatever healthcare plan we end up with, takes the lessons of the ACA into account.

The minute someone offers something even slightly more comprehensive or complex, like Elizabeth Warren, they get derided. “She has a Plan” was the mocking comment I read about her. Yes. She does.

Some candidates who never had a chance whatsoever, like Jay Inslee, were actually inspiring in their commitment and in Inslee’s case, actual implementation of workable policy.

No, Bernie Sanders followers and supporters love him a lot. They believe in him. And if those are the folks you are trying to reach, well ok then. You are absolutely correct.

I don’t know If the black community, say, will warm up to Bernie the nominee, as opposed to Bernie the candidate.

I suspect everyone is so tired of the personality disorder presidency, the sheer drama load, that the nominee will get the vote. Who will bother to vote is a much bigger concern.

I’m undecided for a reason, while I will vote for the nominee, (still think that will be Biden), tossing “centrist” out to someone who does their own research is a bit counterproductive.


But in a way, I’m glad to know what to call myself now. I was back to being a plain ol feminist, with an anti-racist agenda, riding the waves and changes of feminism. Now I’m a centrist feminist. I guess.

You've spoken volumes with this post and the fact that you speak from real-life experience makes it all the more eloquent.

Here in Seattle nurses are on strike for better wages and better working conditions. I was talking to a new hire from that hospital (different union than mine, SEIU) and she said that the management simply refused to negotiate. I mean went in with a “nope”. It takes a lot for nurses to strike, I mean a LOT. The nurses are trying, among other things to improve wages and staffing for EVS workers (environmental services or housekeeping) Local news is barely covering it. My hospital is preparing for an onslaught in our ER.

My point is, wages and conditions and staffing and providers and everything that goes into healthcare is a big, multifaceted conversation that no one wants to have. It seems to be on the order of “build it and they will come”. Or, just expand Medicare”

That isn’t how it works. I never even get to “how to pay for it” because there are so many factors before that.

But it's a shame.

Link to tweet

many, and stand up to the vetting every other candidate undergoes without resorting to tactics many Americans find repugnant and which call into question his own credibility.

Thanks for the thread DanTex.

...for a wonderfully concise and factual post...

...must reading for every primary voter...

...keep up the good work...