Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumBernie Is the Opponent Trump Wants
Last edited Mon Feb 3, 2020, 01:13 AM - Edit history (1)
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/01/trump-bernie-sanders-socialism.html-snip-
You could argue that socialism is just a cosmetic term and that what really matters are Sanders policy ideas on specific issues. But on the biggest issue, health care, Sanders is proposing exactly what voters dont like about socialism. Unlike Biden and other candidates who favor a public optiona government-run health insurance plan that would compete with private insurers, offering consumers an extra choicethe Sanders Medicare for All bill would explicitly make it unlawful for a private health insurer to sell health insurance coverage or for an employer to provide benefits that duplicate the benefits offered by the government. It would establish a state monopoly.
-snip-
Socialism and banning private health insurance are just the beginning of the case against Sanders. Hes promising massive benefits, with no idea how much theyll cost, in a country where voters broadly oppose tax increases. He says all felons should be allowed to vote even if theyre in jail. And he has a history of statements and activism that would help Trump frame him as a crazy radical: promoting revolutionary Marxism, praising communist countries, opposing private charities, demanding the abolition of the CIA, and blaming female hormonal cancers on sexual repression and other psychosomatic factors. Democratic candidates havent used these old quotes against Sanders. Trump certainly would.
If you think socialism is important enough to risk losing the election, vote for Sanders. But if all you want is a progressive governmentone that offers a public health insurance option, makes college more affordable, and mobilizes the country against climate changeyoure a lot more likely to get it by nominating a pragmatist. It feels good to vote for the candidate you admire most. But if Sanders wins the nomination and Trump wins the election, youll have four more years to feel the burn.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
mopinko
(70,097 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Cha
(297,196 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Thekaspervote
(32,762 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Amishman
(5,557 posts)This is how he closed the gap in 2016, by making it personal. By attacking Hillary the person. Unfortunately she played into his hands with the deplorables comment and others.
Bernie would open the door to this same strategy.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
NCProgressive
(1,315 posts)The uptick in Sanders' polling is because of republicans aided by Russian bots pumping him up. It has nothing to do with his policies suddenly "resonating" -- voters have known those policies for 5 years.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ritapria
(1,812 posts)Trump explicitly said he was afraid Hillary would pick Bernie as her running mate ..He was greatly relieved she chose Tim Kaine for VP .Does that sound like a man salivating at the prospect of facing Bernie in a General Election ?... Trump did not know he was being tape recorded ...He is afraid of facing Bernie .. Bernie reaches people on gut level .. He talks about the great economic challenges they face in this "prosperous" economy ...He offers people a clear path forward ...He is Brooklyn -Tough.. PS :. Bernie's uptick in polls caused by Republicans and Russian Trolls ? . What about Batman and Robin ?...... Or Perhaps The Joker and The Penquin were in on the plot to elevate Bernie in the polls ..
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
highplainsdem
(48,975 posts)what Trump was afraid of. NOT of Sanders himself. Trump and the GOP didn't want the Democratic Party united.
The GOP, with Russian help, was doing everything possible to divide the party and turn Bernie's supporters against HRC and the Democratic establishment.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
SunSeeker
(51,550 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
betsuni
(25,492 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Tiggeroshii
(11,088 posts)That would have cost him a the election. Not anything about uniting the party.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to ritapria (Reply #6)
RandiFan1290 This message was self-deleted by its author.
yaesu
(8,020 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
pnwmom
(108,977 posts)That person does not have to be a rabble rouser or a destroyer to get the enthusiastic vote of most voters.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
billpolonsky
(270 posts)about Democratic Socialism.
Nobody cares anymore.
The cold war ended 30 years ago.
No one under 50 CARES.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Fiendish Thingy
(15,605 posts)And Bernies base doesnt care that he is a socialist.
If, after the last four years, the rest of America chooses Trump over Sanders...it will be proof of how totally broken this country is, not that the Democrats selected the wrong nominee.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)He tries to sell Democratic Socialism as it is is Social Democracy.
The two ideologies are not at all the same.
If people's memories of the reality of socialism are that poor, then god help us all.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
pnwmom
(108,977 posts)like most Democrats support -- not of socialism.
Social Democrats aren't socialists.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
KPN
(15,643 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
SergeStorms
(19,201 posts)He'd paint Sanders as a far-left Socialist - which he is - and the GOP would scare Americans half to death about the evils of Socialism. Trump would win handily, IMO. I think the same would happen with Warren, but to a lesser degree, and that election would be close enough to steal. Again. I'm convinced a centrist Democrat is the smart play this November, but when have Democrats ever done things in an intelligent way? We always seem to self-destruct, or have the elections stolen because they're too close. We can't take any chances this time. Donald Trump will complete his destruction of America in another four years, and fascism - already barging through the door - will have itself securely ensconced in our country.
I'll support whoever ends up being the Democratic candidate, even if it's B.S., but I think someone center/center-left is the winning ticket. For now.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
James48
(4,435 posts)Who keep starting these Anti-Bernie attack threads?
Listen up, folks-
Make your own pitch for why your candidate is better- but stop attacking the leader. It is unbecoming of you.
As for me, I think Bernie is a stronger candidate, more outspoken in his ideas, and will make a more electable candidate in November. Im with Bernie.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
MrsCoffee
(5,801 posts)His favorable ratings have dropped almost 20% this month.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,326 posts)Saletan is the guy who had to apologize for writing an article saying black people are genetically inferior.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Or mentioning Stein is "an attack"
Convictions really are fungible.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Quixote1818
(28,930 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
demosincebirth
(12,536 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Algernon Moncrieff
(5,790 posts)Even if we nominate Bloomberg or Biden, the nominee will be shown in ads alongside photos of AOC.
...and even if M4A gets passed, banning private health insurance won't happen. More likely, everyone will be buying Part B & D supplement plans.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Quixote1818
(28,930 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)Try labeling Joe Biden as a "socialist" and people will laugh in Trump's face.
Americans know a true-blue liberal when they see one.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Algernon Moncrieff
(5,790 posts)HW Bush is questionable to them.
Biden is a Socialist. Sanders is somewhere between Trotsky & Mao.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
DAngelo136
(265 posts)That the Progressive/Liberal wing of the Democratic Party is so weak and ineffective that it cannot beat a subpar incumbent with immense baggage in an election with ANY candidate who would be head and shoulders above him? Am I getting that right?
Every candidate in the race and those who are no longer in the race has flaws and their platforms have problems. But none of them have obvious and consistent problems of character like Trump does.
Trump is playing strictly to his base. And even they are tiring of his act. He has polled no better than 40% at his most popular. And now with the rigged Senate trial, his defenders have sacrificed what little credibility and dignity they have left to save him from what ANY jury would have convicted him of.
But the only impediment from the possibility of a record rout is the silly and self destructive attitude of the Democratic Party fanbases. Yes, I said "fanbases". Many of you act as if your particular candidate is the savior of the party or your ideology. Trust me, they are not. On examination, there's not much difference between any of the candidates platforms and quite frankly they all do a lousy job of selling it.
It's like having a good product that would be a winner but like Ralph Kramden's "Chef of The Future", they flub it when the camera's on.
Personally, I can see why you LIKE them but you haven't given anybody a convincing reason to vote FOR them. And then when your pitch is turned down, y'all get downright ornery. I've got only one vote. But it's MY vote. And many of you need to check your attitudes at the door and become better salespersons for your candidate.
And the above article, doesn't help.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
totodeinhere
(13,058 posts)I am not going to let what Trump wants influence me one way or the other. Fuck him.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
KPN
(15,643 posts)exactly what posting stuff like this sounds like. If not want, then letting him influence.
Im getting tired of people using scare tactics again no less. Howd that work out last time?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
NJCher
(35,663 posts)We should give him Bernie.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
rabid_decline
(36 posts)I love Joe Biden too. I was almost rageful at him not running for 2016. But I get it. His other son died, etc. I love Warren too. Ive followed her work for years... and the work shes done for consumer protections, etc. And Ive always loved Joe. Hes been at this shit a long time. And I believe him that hes as tough as he says he is. Joe strikes as someone who if he was sitting in a bar beside Chrump and heard him spewing his bullshit hed call him out and the knock him the fuck out right st the bar. You can tell, Joes been in some fist fight. Chrump never has.
Im pretty sure Bernie has been in some scrapes himself. Ive watched Bernie for years-BEFORE he was a fad. He and Dolores Huerta are why almost 20 years ago I identified as a Democratic Socialist. Though Im registered a Democratic Party Member and Precinct Chair and voter registration agent, I personally identify as an Anarcho-Mutualist, and a Social Pragmatist.
Still, Bernie has shown an inexplicable tenacity and charisma. I think people like that he just stands there with absolute conviction and basically presents himself as an uncharismatic person with charisma. Its dangerous. And it seems these days people are thirsting for danger. Its a lust they have for salvation. I have no doubts in Joe either. Zero. None. Im growing worried about our field though. Republicans are masters at branding. Even with the impeachment debacle, the continual mentions of Biden WILL resonate because Muricans are dumb. Chrump knows this. He dominates this. Think about the last time you took your kid to a monster truck event. That is the exact level of mass hysteria that it takes. That and at pro wrestling events. We dont stand a snowballs chance if we lose those knuckle staggers.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Gothmog
(145,176 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
corbettkroehler
(1,898 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Gothmog
(145,176 posts)In addition to the well written 101 page memorandum with oppo on sanders with a 1000 pages of backup from the Clinton campaign trump has his own oppo file on sanders that would destroy such a weak and divisive candidate like sanders. Trump had a two foot thick book of oppo research on Sanders http://www.newsweek.com/myths-cost-democrats-presidential-election-521044
So what would have happened when Sanders hit a real opponent, someone who did not care about alienating the young college voters in his base? I have seen the opposition book assembled by Republicans for Sanders, and it was brutal. The Republicans would have torn him apart. And while Sanders supporters might delude themselves into believing that they could have defended him against all of this, there is a name for politicians who play defense all the time: losers....
The Republicans had at least four other damning Sanders videos (I dont know what they showed), and the opposition research folder was almost 2-feet thick. (The section calling him a communist with connections to Castro alone would have cost him Florida.) In other words, the belief that Sanders would have walked into the White House based on polls taken before anyone really attacked him is a delusion built on a scaffolding of political ignorance.
sanders was such a weak primary candidate that the Clinton campaign did not use its oppo but trump would have fun destroying such a weak candidate like sanders
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden