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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!
 

highplainsdem

(48,975 posts)
Wed Jan 29, 2020, 11:52 PM Jan 2020

Bernie Is the Opponent Trump Wants

Last edited Mon Feb 3, 2020, 01:13 AM - Edit history (1)

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/01/trump-bernie-sanders-socialism.html


Trump is running on the economy, but he knows many voters don’t like him. He needs to give those voters something to fear about the other party. That’s where socialism comes in. Trump uses that word at every rally, hoping to make Democrats look radical and scary. Sen. Elizabeth Warren agrees with many of Sanders’ ideas, but she doesn’t call them socialism. Sanders does. He plays right into Trump’s hands.

-snip-

You could argue that socialism is just a cosmetic term and that what really matters are Sanders’ policy ideas on specific issues. But on the biggest issue, health care, Sanders is proposing exactly what voters don’t like about socialism. Unlike Biden and other candidates who favor a “public option”—a government-run health insurance plan that would compete with private insurers, offering consumers an extra choice—the Sanders “Medicare for All” bill would explicitly make it “unlawful for a private health insurer to sell health insurance coverage” or for “an employer to provide benefits” that “duplicate the benefits” offered by the government. It would establish a state monopoly.

-snip-

Socialism and banning private health insurance are just the beginning of the case against Sanders. He’s promising massive benefits, with no idea how much they’ll cost, in a country where voters broadly oppose tax increases. He says all felons should be allowed to vote “even if they’re in jail.” And he has a history of statements and activism that would help Trump frame him as a crazy radical: promoting revolutionary Marxism, praising communist countries, opposing private charities, demanding the abolition of the CIA, and blaming female hormonal cancers on sexual repression and other “psychosomatic” factors. Democratic candidates haven’t used these old quotes against Sanders. Trump certainly would.

If you think socialism is important enough to risk losing the election, vote for Sanders. But if all you want is a progressive government—one that offers a public health insurance option, makes college more affordable, and mobilizes the country against climate change—you’re a lot more likely to get it by nominating a pragmatist. It feels good to vote for the candidate you admire most. But if Sanders wins the nomination and Trump wins the election, you’ll have four more years to feel the burn.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
39 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Bernie Is the Opponent Trump Wants (Original Post) highplainsdem Jan 2020 OP
imho, they are building him up to knock him down. mopinko Jan 2020 #1
yeah, they're so obvious. Cha Jan 2020 #4
+1000 Thekaspervote Jan 2020 #5
Without a doubt. Bernie is who Trump would rather run against. redstateblues Jan 2020 #2
Trump can't win on ideas, he needs the race to be a toxic clash of personalities Amishman Jan 2020 #32
It is obvious to anyone with over half a brain NCProgressive Jan 2020 #3
Remember the Lev Parnas Secret Tape Recoding of Trump ? ritapria Jan 2020 #6
Bernie as Hillary's VP would have been the less important half of a Democratic unity ticket. That's highplainsdem Jan 2020 #7
Exactly. nt SunSeeker Jan 2020 #10
Yes! betsuni Jan 2020 #11
He specifically said it was Sanders' position on trade that he was afrade of Tiggeroshii Jan 2020 #26
I'm not sure if I'm allowed to talk about "why" Trump said that. The Valley Below Jan 2020 #21
This message was self-deleted by its author RandiFan1290 Jan 2020 #33
well, it we get a ho hum candidate no one will show up to vote, we get tRump for 4 more years. nt yaesu Jan 2020 #8
Many people will gladly show up to vote against Trump and for a normal, human, healthy alternative. pnwmom Jan 2020 #24
Sanders has been transparent billpolonsky Jan 2020 #9
Trump's base doesn't care that he is Putin's c*ck holster, Fiendish Thingy Jan 2020 #15
Not really. The Valley Below Jan 2020 #22
Right. The Nordic countries are examples of well-regulated capitalism, pnwmom Jan 2020 #25
Memories of the reality of socialism? KPN Jan 2020 #28
Yes, Trump would love to run against B.S. SergeStorms Jan 2020 #12
Did you ever notice it is Biden people James48 Jan 2020 #13
Bernie is not leading anything. MrsCoffee Jan 2020 #17
Ah another conservative heard from. Hassin Bin Sober Jan 2020 #14
And yet mentioning Rogan is somehow "bad-form..." LanternWaste Jan 2020 #37
Well, Trump is about as dumb as they come so then what is the point of this? nt Quixote1818 Jan 2020 #16
your bet he does. He's licking his chops hoping he gets the nomination. demosincebirth Jan 2020 #18
The Republicans will label whoever we run as "Socialist" Algernon Moncrieff Jan 2020 #19
Of course. They always do. nt Quixote1818 Jan 2020 #20
Absurd. The Valley Below Jan 2020 #23
No. In FAUX News' world, anyone to the left of George W Bush is a Socialist Algernon Moncrieff Jan 2020 #38
So What You're Saying Is DAngelo136 Jan 2020 #27
Absolutely not. totodeinhere Jan 2020 #29
Wait. You want tRump to influences how're nominate? That's KPN Jan 2020 #30
Trump has such bad judgement NJCher Jan 2020 #31
Now I love Bernie although rabid_decline Jan 2020 #34
sanders is a very weak candidate and trump would win 45+ states Gothmog Jan 2020 #35
You Meant "Fears" Not "Wants" corbettkroehler Jan 2020 #36
trump would destroy a weak candidate like sanders Gothmog Jan 2020 #39
 

mopinko

(70,097 posts)
1. imho, they are building him up to knock him down.
Wed Jan 29, 2020, 11:55 PM
Jan 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Cha

(297,196 posts)
4. yeah, they're so obvious.
Thu Jan 30, 2020, 12:05 AM
Jan 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

redstateblues

(10,565 posts)
2. Without a doubt. Bernie is who Trump would rather run against.
Thu Jan 30, 2020, 12:02 AM
Jan 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Amishman

(5,557 posts)
32. Trump can't win on ideas, he needs the race to be a toxic clash of personalities
Thu Jan 30, 2020, 06:44 AM
Jan 2020

This is how he closed the gap in 2016, by making it personal. By attacking Hillary the person. Unfortunately she played into his hands with the deplorables comment and others.

Bernie would open the door to this same strategy.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

NCProgressive

(1,315 posts)
3. It is obvious to anyone with over half a brain
Thu Jan 30, 2020, 12:05 AM
Jan 2020

The uptick in Sanders' polling is because of republicans aided by Russian bots pumping him up. It has nothing to do with his policies suddenly "resonating" -- voters have known those policies for 5 years.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

ritapria

(1,812 posts)
6. Remember the Lev Parnas Secret Tape Recoding of Trump ?
Thu Jan 30, 2020, 12:16 AM
Jan 2020

Trump explicitly said he was afraid Hillary would pick Bernie as her running mate ..He was greatly relieved she chose Tim Kaine for VP ….Does that sound like a man salivating at the prospect of facing Bernie in a General Election ?... Trump did not know he was being tape recorded ...He is afraid of facing Bernie .. Bernie reaches people on gut level .. He talks about the great economic challenges they face in this "prosperous" economy ...He offers people a clear path forward ...He is Brooklyn -Tough.. PS :. Bernie's uptick in polls caused by Republicans and Russian Trolls ? …. What about Batman and Robin ?...... Or Perhaps The Joker and The Penquin were in on the plot to elevate Bernie in the polls …..

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

highplainsdem

(48,975 posts)
7. Bernie as Hillary's VP would have been the less important half of a Democratic unity ticket. That's
Thu Jan 30, 2020, 12:30 AM
Jan 2020

what Trump was afraid of. NOT of Sanders himself. Trump and the GOP didn't want the Democratic Party united.

The GOP, with Russian help, was doing everything possible to divide the party and turn Bernie's supporters against HRC and the Democratic establishment.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Tiggeroshii

(11,088 posts)
26. He specifically said it was Sanders' position on trade that he was afrade of
Thu Jan 30, 2020, 02:47 AM
Jan 2020

That would have cost him a the election. Not anything about uniting the party.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
21. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to talk about "why" Trump said that.
Thu Jan 30, 2020, 02:26 AM
Jan 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

Response to ritapria (Reply #6)

 

yaesu

(8,020 posts)
8. well, it we get a ho hum candidate no one will show up to vote, we get tRump for 4 more years. nt
Thu Jan 30, 2020, 01:07 AM
Jan 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

pnwmom

(108,977 posts)
24. Many people will gladly show up to vote against Trump and for a normal, human, healthy alternative.
Thu Jan 30, 2020, 02:41 AM
Jan 2020

That person does not have to be a rabble rouser or a destroyer to get the enthusiastic vote of most voters.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

billpolonsky

(270 posts)
9. Sanders has been transparent
Thu Jan 30, 2020, 01:08 AM
Jan 2020

about Democratic Socialism.

Nobody cares anymore.
The cold war ended 30 years ago.

No one under 50 CARES.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Fiendish Thingy

(15,605 posts)
15. Trump's base doesn't care that he is Putin's c*ck holster,
Thu Jan 30, 2020, 01:44 AM
Jan 2020

And Bernie’s base doesn’t care that he is a socialist.

If, after the last four years, the rest of America chooses Trump over Sanders...it will be proof of how totally broken this country is, not that the Democrats selected the wrong nominee.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
22. Not really.
Thu Jan 30, 2020, 02:29 AM
Jan 2020

He tries to sell Democratic Socialism as it is is Social Democracy.

The two ideologies are not at all the same.

If people's memories of the reality of socialism are that poor, then god help us all.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(108,977 posts)
25. Right. The Nordic countries are examples of well-regulated capitalism,
Thu Jan 30, 2020, 02:42 AM
Jan 2020

like most Democrats support -- not of socialism.

Social Democrats aren't socialists.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

KPN

(15,643 posts)
28. Memories of the reality of socialism?
Thu Jan 30, 2020, 03:22 AM
Jan 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

SergeStorms

(19,201 posts)
12. Yes, Trump would love to run against B.S.
Thu Jan 30, 2020, 01:21 AM
Jan 2020

He'd paint Sanders as a far-left Socialist - which he is - and the GOP would scare Americans half to death about the evils of Socialism. Trump would win handily, IMO. I think the same would happen with Warren, but to a lesser degree, and that election would be close enough to steal. Again. I'm convinced a centrist Democrat is the smart play this November, but when have Democrats ever done things in an intelligent way? We always seem to self-destruct, or have the elections stolen because they're too close. We can't take any chances this time. Donald Trump will complete his destruction of America in another four years, and fascism - already barging through the door - will have itself securely ensconced in our country.

I'll support whoever ends up being the Democratic candidate, even if it's B.S., but I think someone center/center-left is the winning ticket. For now.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

James48

(4,435 posts)
13. Did you ever notice it is Biden people
Thu Jan 30, 2020, 01:28 AM
Jan 2020

Who keep starting these Anti-Bernie attack threads?

Listen up, folks-
Make your own pitch for why your candidate is better- but stop attacking the leader. It is unbecoming of you.

As for me, I think Bernie is a stronger candidate, more outspoken in his ideas, and will make a more electable candidate in November. I’m with Bernie.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

MrsCoffee

(5,801 posts)
17. Bernie is not leading anything.
Thu Jan 30, 2020, 02:03 AM
Jan 2020

His favorable ratings have dropped almost 20% this month.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Hassin Bin Sober

(26,326 posts)
14. Ah another conservative heard from.
Thu Jan 30, 2020, 01:28 AM
Jan 2020

Saletan is the guy who had to apologize for writing an article saying black people are genetically inferior.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
37. And yet mentioning Rogan is somehow "bad-form..."
Thu Jan 30, 2020, 03:18 PM
Jan 2020

Or mentioning Stein is "an attack"

Convictions really are fungible.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Quixote1818

(28,930 posts)
16. Well, Trump is about as dumb as they come so then what is the point of this? nt
Thu Jan 30, 2020, 01:46 AM
Jan 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

demosincebirth

(12,536 posts)
18. your bet he does. He's licking his chops hoping he gets the nomination.
Thu Jan 30, 2020, 02:12 AM
Jan 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Algernon Moncrieff

(5,790 posts)
19. The Republicans will label whoever we run as "Socialist"
Thu Jan 30, 2020, 02:18 AM
Jan 2020

Even if we nominate Bloomberg or Biden, the nominee will be shown in ads alongside photos of AOC.

...and even if M4A gets passed, banning private health insurance won't happen. More likely, everyone will be buying Part B & D supplement plans.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Quixote1818

(28,930 posts)
20. Of course. They always do. nt
Thu Jan 30, 2020, 02:23 AM
Jan 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

The Valley Below

(1,701 posts)
23. Absurd.
Thu Jan 30, 2020, 02:32 AM
Jan 2020

Try labeling Joe Biden as a "socialist" and people will laugh in Trump's face.

Americans know a true-blue liberal when they see one.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Algernon Moncrieff

(5,790 posts)
38. No. In FAUX News' world, anyone to the left of George W Bush is a Socialist
Thu Jan 30, 2020, 03:32 PM
Jan 2020

HW Bush is questionable to them.

Biden is a Socialist. Sanders is somewhere between Trotsky & Mao.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

DAngelo136

(265 posts)
27. So What You're Saying Is
Thu Jan 30, 2020, 02:48 AM
Jan 2020

That the Progressive/Liberal wing of the Democratic Party is so weak and ineffective that it cannot beat a subpar incumbent with immense baggage in an election with ANY candidate who would be head and shoulders above him? Am I getting that right?
Every candidate in the race and those who are no longer in the race has flaws and their platforms have problems. But none of them have obvious and consistent problems of character like Trump does.
Trump is playing strictly to his base. And even they are tiring of his act. He has polled no better than 40% at his most popular. And now with the rigged Senate trial, his defenders have sacrificed what little credibility and dignity they have left to save him from what ANY jury would have convicted him of.
But the only impediment from the possibility of a record rout is the silly and self destructive attitude of the Democratic Party fanbases. Yes, I said "fanbases". Many of you act as if your particular candidate is the savior of the party or your ideology. Trust me, they are not. On examination, there's not much difference between any of the candidates platforms and quite frankly they all do a lousy job of selling it.
It's like having a good product that would be a winner but like Ralph Kramden's "Chef of The Future", they flub it when the camera's on.
Personally, I can see why you LIKE them but you haven't given anybody a convincing reason to vote FOR them. And then when your pitch is turned down, y'all get downright ornery. I've got only one vote. But it's MY vote. And many of you need to check your attitudes at the door and become better salespersons for your candidate.
And the above article, doesn't help.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

totodeinhere

(13,058 posts)
29. Absolutely not.
Thu Jan 30, 2020, 03:27 AM
Jan 2020

I am not going to let what Trump wants influence me one way or the other. Fuck him.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

KPN

(15,643 posts)
30. Wait. You want tRump to influences how're nominate? That's
Thu Jan 30, 2020, 03:27 AM
Jan 2020

exactly what posting stuff like this sounds like. If not want, then letting him influence.

I’m getting tired of people using scare tactics — again no less. How’d that work out last time?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

NJCher

(35,663 posts)
31. Trump has such bad judgement
Thu Jan 30, 2020, 03:30 AM
Jan 2020

We should give him Bernie.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

rabid_decline

(36 posts)
34. Now I love Bernie although
Thu Jan 30, 2020, 09:42 AM
Jan 2020

I love Joe Biden too. I was almost rageful at him not running for 2016. But I get it. His other son died, etc. I love Warren too. I’ve followed her work for years... and the work she’s done for consumer protections, etc. And I’ve always loved Joe. He’s been at this shit a long time. And I believe him that he’s as tough as he says he is. Joe strikes as someone who if he was sitting in a bar beside Chrump and heard him spewing his bullshit he’d call him out and the knock him the fuck out right st the bar. You can tell, Joe’s been in some fist fight. Chrump never has.
I’m pretty sure Bernie has been in some scrapes himself. I’ve watched Bernie for years-BEFORE he was a fad. He and Dolores Huerta are why almost 20 years ago I identified as a Democratic Socialist. Though I’m registered a Democratic Party Member and Precinct Chair and voter registration agent, I personally identify as an Anarcho-Mutualist, and a Social Pragmatist.
Still, Bernie has shown an inexplicable tenacity and charisma. I think people like that he just stands there with absolute conviction and basically presents himself as an uncharismatic person with charisma. It’s dangerous. And it seems these days people are thirsting for danger. It’s a lust they have for salvation. I have no doubts in Joe either. Zero. None. I’m growing worried about our field though. Republicans are masters at branding. Even with the impeachment debacle, the continual mentions of Biden WILL resonate because Muricans are dumb. Chrump knows this. He dominates this. Think about the last time you took your kid to a monster truck event. That is the exact level of mass hysteria that it takes. That and at pro wrestling events. We don’t stand a snowball’s chance if we lose those knuckle staggers.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Gothmog

(145,176 posts)
35. sanders is a very weak candidate and trump would win 45+ states
Thu Jan 30, 2020, 01:13 PM
Jan 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Gothmog

(145,176 posts)
39. trump would destroy a weak candidate like sanders
Thu Jan 30, 2020, 09:48 PM
Jan 2020

In addition to the well written 101 page memorandum with oppo on sanders with a 1000 pages of backup from the Clinton campaign trump has his own oppo file on sanders that would destroy such a weak and divisive candidate like sanders. Trump had a two foot thick book of oppo research on Sanders http://www.newsweek.com/myths-cost-democrats-presidential-election-521044

They ignored the fact that Sanders had not yet faced a real campaign against him. Clinton was in the delicate position of dealing with a large portion of voters who treated Sanders more like the Messiah than just another candidate. She was playing the long game—attacking Sanders strongly enough to win, but gently enough to avoid alienating his supporters. Given her overwhelming support from communities of color—for example, about 70 percent of African-American voters cast their ballot for her—Clinton had a firewall that would be difficult for Sanders to breach....

So what would have happened when Sanders hit a real opponent, someone who did not care about alienating the young college voters in his base? I have seen the opposition book assembled by Republicans for Sanders, and it was brutal. The Republicans would have torn him apart. And while Sanders supporters might delude themselves into believing that they could have defended him against all of this, there is a name for politicians who play defense all the time: losers....

The Republicans had at least four other damning Sanders videos (I don’t know what they showed), and the opposition research folder was almost 2-feet thick. (The section calling him a communist with connections to Castro alone would have cost him Florida.) In other words, the belief that Sanders would have walked into the White House based on polls taken before anyone really attacked him is a delusion built on a scaffolding of political ignorance.

sanders was such a weak primary candidate that the Clinton campaign did not use its oppo but trump would have fun destroying such a weak candidate like sanders
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
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