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Democratic Primaries
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Congratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!
What to make of Joe Biden?
Lets get back to some legal basics: Sexual harassment in the workplace is either unwelcome sexual conduct or if from someone in a position of power, conditioning work benefits on sexual conduct. If your co-worker slugs you on the arm every day as some weird good-morning ritual, youve got reason for complaint but it doesnt make it sexual conduct. What is sexual conduct? To paraphrase the Supreme Court on pornography (which if shown to an unwelcoming co-worker would be harassment!): Well know it when we see it. Better put, if reasonable people in that situation would consider the conduct to be sexual, it probably is.
And yes, this brings us to former vice president Joe Biden. Any adult whos paid attention to politics over the last few decades knows that Biden does not honor personal space, to put it mildly. He hugs, he pats, he rubs backs. He is a nondiscriminatory toucher men, women, blacks, whites, children, seniors. This is understandable conduct with close friends and relatives, but Biden, for better or worse, treats everyone like a member of the family.
This is not an excuse. His touching is often inappropriate and can be unnerving. He should cut it out and apologize to those who felt uncomfortable. However, this is not #MeToo sexual harassment or assault. In the crazed atmosphere of immediate takes and absolute judgments, its difficult for some to make distinctions, but that is what grown-ups are supposed to do. Bidens habitual embraces can be inappropriate without being sexual harassment; his conduct can be a demerit without being disqualifying. No, youre not a hypocrite if you think Roy Moore should have been long ago banished from public life and Biden shouldnt; these two situations are not the same.
That still leaves Democratic primary voters with a decision, should Biden decide to run for president. Is he is the best person to lead their party, the best positioned to beat President Trump and then best equipped to govern in the post-Trump era? Others have observed that Bidens obsessive touching dates him, underscoring the generational divide between him and most of his potential opponents (and maybe two generations apart from South Bend, Ind., Mayor Pete Buttigieg).
Does the country want a choice in 2020 between two Social Security recipients, as it had in 2016? This is not only a question for the 76-year-old Biden, but for Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.), who is a year older than Biden. Talk to Buttigieg, and hell say its time to turn the page on the 70-year-olds and the 50-year-olds generations that, truth be told, have done a rotten job running things recently. The response is that there are 70-year-olds and then there are 70-year-olds. Trumps problem isnt that he is over 70; its that he is mentally, temperamentally and morally unfit in almost every imaginable way for the office he holds.
Democrats will have to decide in the big scheme of things whether Bidens touching is a deal-breaker. For me, it comes down to a different consideration: Is there someone better positioned to beat Trump? Im waiting to see.
...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/04/02/what-make-biden/?utm_term=.c54798310a03
And yes, this brings us to former vice president Joe Biden. Any adult whos paid attention to politics over the last few decades knows that Biden does not honor personal space, to put it mildly. He hugs, he pats, he rubs backs. He is a nondiscriminatory toucher men, women, blacks, whites, children, seniors. This is understandable conduct with close friends and relatives, but Biden, for better or worse, treats everyone like a member of the family.
This is not an excuse. His touching is often inappropriate and can be unnerving. He should cut it out and apologize to those who felt uncomfortable. However, this is not #MeToo sexual harassment or assault. In the crazed atmosphere of immediate takes and absolute judgments, its difficult for some to make distinctions, but that is what grown-ups are supposed to do. Bidens habitual embraces can be inappropriate without being sexual harassment; his conduct can be a demerit without being disqualifying. No, youre not a hypocrite if you think Roy Moore should have been long ago banished from public life and Biden shouldnt; these two situations are not the same.
That still leaves Democratic primary voters with a decision, should Biden decide to run for president. Is he is the best person to lead their party, the best positioned to beat President Trump and then best equipped to govern in the post-Trump era? Others have observed that Bidens obsessive touching dates him, underscoring the generational divide between him and most of his potential opponents (and maybe two generations apart from South Bend, Ind., Mayor Pete Buttigieg).
Does the country want a choice in 2020 between two Social Security recipients, as it had in 2016? This is not only a question for the 76-year-old Biden, but for Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.), who is a year older than Biden. Talk to Buttigieg, and hell say its time to turn the page on the 70-year-olds and the 50-year-olds generations that, truth be told, have done a rotten job running things recently. The response is that there are 70-year-olds and then there are 70-year-olds. Trumps problem isnt that he is over 70; its that he is mentally, temperamentally and morally unfit in almost every imaginable way for the office he holds.
Democrats will have to decide in the big scheme of things whether Bidens touching is a deal-breaker. For me, it comes down to a different consideration: Is there someone better positioned to beat Trump? Im waiting to see.
...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/04/02/what-make-biden/?utm_term=.c54798310a03
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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What to make of Joe Biden? (Original Post)
DemocratSinceBirth
Apr 2019
OP
LongtimeAZDem
(4,494 posts)1. What to make of Joe Biden? President
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
highplainsdem
(49,004 posts)2. Amen.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LexVegas
(6,067 posts)3. He's a really good Vice President. nt
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Polly Hennessey
(6,799 posts)4. President.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(145,321 posts)5. Women who have worked for and know Joe Biden are speaking up to share their experiences
For this thread https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000169-de7b-dc59-a16d-feff47c00000
"Even then [1986], Joe Biden stood out for his attitude and conduct toward women: He
was devoted to his wife, Jill, and he consistently selected women for senior staff roles,
treated them with respect, and gave them opportunities to blaze new trails. He never
once crossed the line in dealing with me as a young woman on his team Joe Biden is
a man of fundamental decency and warmth, and when he makes physical contact -- as
he often does to express a personal connection -- it reflects the genuine humanity that
is one of his greatest strengths.
Dr. Elizabeth Sherwood-Randall, former Deputy Secretary of Energy, NSC Official,
and Biden Senate staff member (4/1/19, Press Statement)
I have often been asked what it was like to work for the US Senate (a famously all-male
environment) in the early to mid 1990s. I can happily answer that the experience was
wonderful BECAUSE I was lucky enough to work for Joe Biden, who had promoted
several women, including me, to leadership roles on the staff of Senate Judiciary
Committee, and who treated us with respect and insisted that others do the same.
Cynthia Hogan, Former Counsel to Vice President Biden (3/31/19, Press
Statement)
I am proud to call Joe Biden a friend. He has been a leader and a champion on fighting
violence against women for many years, and I have been fortunate to accompany him
to events with survivors where he has listened to their stories, empathized with them,
and comforted them. That's who Joe Biden is - a warm, generous individual who
believes its on all of us to pay attention to women's stories and experiences. Biden
started Its On Us because he believes to meaningfully change our culture, everyone -
including those often left out of the conversation like college athletes and fraternity
brothers - needed to be part of the movement. Joe Bidens response that he never
meant to make anyone uncomfortable and that he'll listen and learn from anyone who
says otherwise is exactly the leadership we need to build a culture where women are
heard and are equal.
Alyssa Milano (4/1/19, Tweet)
"The Joe Biden that I have known for 25 years is a warm and friendly human being. He
didn't mean it as anything other than that. And I guess, there has never been a problem
before. He's a warm, tactile person. He reaches out and touches, and it's like this and
that [she touches a staffer's wrist] It's hardly sexy. So, that's not his intention, and it's a
new thing that people have been affronted by it. I mean, over 25 years I've never seen
that before."
Sen. Dianne Feinstein (4/1/19, Interview)
was devoted to his wife, Jill, and he consistently selected women for senior staff roles,
treated them with respect, and gave them opportunities to blaze new trails. He never
once crossed the line in dealing with me as a young woman on his team Joe Biden is
a man of fundamental decency and warmth, and when he makes physical contact -- as
he often does to express a personal connection -- it reflects the genuine humanity that
is one of his greatest strengths.
Dr. Elizabeth Sherwood-Randall, former Deputy Secretary of Energy, NSC Official,
and Biden Senate staff member (4/1/19, Press Statement)
I have often been asked what it was like to work for the US Senate (a famously all-male
environment) in the early to mid 1990s. I can happily answer that the experience was
wonderful BECAUSE I was lucky enough to work for Joe Biden, who had promoted
several women, including me, to leadership roles on the staff of Senate Judiciary
Committee, and who treated us with respect and insisted that others do the same.
Cynthia Hogan, Former Counsel to Vice President Biden (3/31/19, Press
Statement)
I am proud to call Joe Biden a friend. He has been a leader and a champion on fighting
violence against women for many years, and I have been fortunate to accompany him
to events with survivors where he has listened to their stories, empathized with them,
and comforted them. That's who Joe Biden is - a warm, generous individual who
believes its on all of us to pay attention to women's stories and experiences. Biden
started Its On Us because he believes to meaningfully change our culture, everyone -
including those often left out of the conversation like college athletes and fraternity
brothers - needed to be part of the movement. Joe Bidens response that he never
meant to make anyone uncomfortable and that he'll listen and learn from anyone who
says otherwise is exactly the leadership we need to build a culture where women are
heard and are equal.
Alyssa Milano (4/1/19, Tweet)
"The Joe Biden that I have known for 25 years is a warm and friendly human being. He
didn't mean it as anything other than that. And I guess, there has never been a problem
before. He's a warm, tactile person. He reaches out and touches, and it's like this and
that [she touches a staffer's wrist] It's hardly sexy. So, that's not his intention, and it's a
new thing that people have been affronted by it. I mean, over 25 years I've never seen
that before."
Sen. Dianne Feinstein (4/1/19, Interview)
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(145,321 posts)6. For this thread
https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000169-de7b-dc59-a16d-feff47c00000
I worked for Joe Biden in 2008. He NEVER made me feel uncomfortable. In fact, Ihave a deep admiration for his empathy and compassion. Having said that, I believe Lucy Flores. More important, I respect her. Seems Biden does also and is willing to learn from her.
Patti Solis Doyle, Former Chief of Staff to Vice President Biden, Obama Former
America (4/1/19, Tweet)
I will start with - women should have the right and respect to voice their concerns and uneasiness in any situation. But I want to add my voice to those who have spent time with Joe Biden over many years. My chapter is much smaller than a lot of great women who have stood by his side but he has ALWAYS been polite, caring and deferential to me. He called my mother once, shocking me and her, and thanked her for raising a strong, smart and capable woman. We all express emotion in our own ways and Joe Bidens has always been with respect and gratitude
Amanda Alpert Loveday, Former Executive Director, South Carolina Democratic
Party (3/31/19, Tweet)
My friend Stephanie Carter has something to say about that picture with Joe Biden. She's not just "that woman" or the "defense secretary's wife." An accomplished businesswoman who had an interesting day at his oath, you should read her words Directly.
Juliette Kayyem, former U.S. Assistant Secretary of Homeland Security for
Intergovernmental Affairs (3/31/19, Tweet)
Stop using this photo. Stop putting words into the mouth of another woman. Stop pushing narratives upon others. My friend Stephanie Carter spoke out because SHE is the woman with Joe Biden in this widely-circulated photo.
Erin Schrode (3/31/19, Tweet)
Patti Solis Doyle, Former Chief of Staff to Vice President Biden, Obama Former
America (4/1/19, Tweet)
I will start with - women should have the right and respect to voice their concerns and uneasiness in any situation. But I want to add my voice to those who have spent time with Joe Biden over many years. My chapter is much smaller than a lot of great women who have stood by his side but he has ALWAYS been polite, caring and deferential to me. He called my mother once, shocking me and her, and thanked her for raising a strong, smart and capable woman. We all express emotion in our own ways and Joe Bidens has always been with respect and gratitude
Amanda Alpert Loveday, Former Executive Director, South Carolina Democratic
Party (3/31/19, Tweet)
My friend Stephanie Carter has something to say about that picture with Joe Biden. She's not just "that woman" or the "defense secretary's wife." An accomplished businesswoman who had an interesting day at his oath, you should read her words Directly.
Juliette Kayyem, former U.S. Assistant Secretary of Homeland Security for
Intergovernmental Affairs (3/31/19, Tweet)
Stop using this photo. Stop putting words into the mouth of another woman. Stop pushing narratives upon others. My friend Stephanie Carter spoke out because SHE is the woman with Joe Biden in this widely-circulated photo.
Erin Schrode (3/31/19, Tweet)
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BlueFlorida
(1,532 posts)7. Biden will make a phenomenal president n/t
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,357 posts)9. Great guy, strong legacy, shouldn't be president.
And I said this a month ago, too.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Gothmog
(145,321 posts)10. I like this statement by Joe Biden
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden