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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!
 

pnwmom

(108,980 posts)
Mon Feb 10, 2020, 02:30 AM Feb 2020

Those pushing the "popular vote" in the caucus are trying to have it both ways.

Iowa's caucus purposely limits the number of attendees, by requiring attendance at a particular event that lasts for hours -- so they end up being attended only by the most fervent supporters. But they are designed to also be a kind of ranked choice voting, as people re-align with candidates who seem to have a better chance than their initial first choice.

If they wanted a popular vote, then they should have had a traditional primary, and encouraged the broadest participation possible. The numbers of individual caucus attendees -- who are devoted enough to one candidate to go through hours of standing around in a gym but don't care if their vote is private, and might be willing to switch to another candidate -- are not comparable to a popular vote in a primary.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
34 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Those pushing the "popular vote" in the caucus are trying to have it both ways. (Original Post) pnwmom Feb 2020 OP
You are right. krissey Feb 2020 #1
Last I checked if somebody got more votes, they won. Tiggeroshii Feb 2020 #2
Someone should go back to 2016 and tell them that. Salviati Feb 2020 #3
And tell them that Clinton won 3 million more votes than Trump? Tiggeroshii Feb 2020 #5
lol :( Cha Feb 2020 #7
Lol krissey Feb 2020 #4
Last I checked, that's NEVER how caucuses have been run. pnwmom Feb 2020 #6
Somehow the 2600 more votes that Bernie received Tiggeroshii Feb 2020 #9
No, it might just mean that he has more young supporters who have the time and physical ability pnwmom Feb 2020 #10
I consider the popular vote winner to be the legitimate winner Tiggeroshii Feb 2020 #11
Lol. Wow, to live in whatever world. But, you cannot expect the world to validate. Surely. krissey Feb 2020 #13
Sure. I just hope you dont ever say anybody else won an election when they won the popular vote Tiggeroshii Feb 2020 #14
I state Clinton got 3 million more votes. Yes, I am consistent. krissey Feb 2020 #16
Cool. I believe she won. Tiggeroshii Feb 2020 #17
There is right and wrong. This would be an absolute wrong. I think it is clear so I got to krissey Feb 2020 #18
Most people here feel she won as well Tiggeroshii Feb 2020 #19
Buttigieg for the win. I do not this you would have most people agreeing with your post. krissey Feb 2020 #20
No, I am consistent, which is why I thought WA and all the caucus states should switch to primaries. pnwmom Feb 2020 #15
+1 nt mr_lebowski Feb 2020 #32
+++ still_one Feb 2020 #30
last I checked bernie knew the rules and accepted them, having changed them himself lol nt msongs Feb 2020 #8
Bernie did not change them unc70 Feb 2020 #12
That's true...and Pete got the most votes in more Districts brooklynite Feb 2020 #25
There is a difference between straight forward primary popular votes democratisphere Feb 2020 #28
You have to play by the rules of the contest. The winner of a baseball game... thesquanderer Feb 2020 #33
K & R SunSeeker Feb 2020 #21
Here in Colorado I have participated in the past in the caucus system colorado_ufo Feb 2020 #22
We've switched this year, too, thank goodness. I'm sorry if you'll have to do that for the Senate! pnwmom Feb 2020 #23
They're already building in excuses in the event Sanders loses the nomination. TwilightZone Feb 2020 #24
they are claiming that California is conspiring against bernie Fresh_Start Feb 2020 #29
Yes indeed.... ehrnst Feb 2020 #26
The Sanders people are the same ones that will show up on convention day to "steal" delegates Renew Deal Feb 2020 #27
best part of this....is that Buttigieg won many of the same rural precincts that Fresh_Start Feb 2020 #31
Iowa's Over. MineralMan Feb 2020 #34
 

Tiggeroshii

(11,088 posts)
2. Last I checked if somebody got more votes, they won.
Mon Feb 10, 2020, 02:36 AM
Feb 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Salviati

(6,008 posts)
3. Someone should go back to 2016 and tell them that.
Mon Feb 10, 2020, 02:38 AM
Feb 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Tiggeroshii

(11,088 posts)
5. And tell them that Clinton won 3 million more votes than Trump?
Mon Feb 10, 2020, 02:40 AM
Feb 2020

And that she effectively one that election like most us feel she did?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

pnwmom

(108,980 posts)
6. Last I checked, that's NEVER how caucuses have been run.
Mon Feb 10, 2020, 02:45 AM
Feb 2020

Each site gets a certain number of delegates based on how many people voted at that site 4 years earlier. (So if you have greatly increased attendance this year, tough.) Then that number is allocated among people who get more than 15%. But because some of these sites have very few delegates, the distributions can be very strange. A candidate who got 30% of the vote can end up with the same number of delegates as the one who got 50%. And people who got fewer than 15% get none.

Caucuses have outlived their usefulness. Every state should switch to primaries.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Tiggeroshii

(11,088 posts)
9. Somehow the 2600 more votes that Bernie received
Mon Feb 10, 2020, 02:51 AM
Feb 2020

Shows most people wanted him to be president. The popular vote will always matter. And even if we dont respect it, our choices will continue to haunt us.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

pnwmom

(108,980 posts)
10. No, it might just mean that he has more young supporters who have the time and physical ability
Mon Feb 10, 2020, 02:58 AM
Feb 2020

to stand or sit on a gym floor on a work night -- as opposed to older people in less good health or with less time on their hands.

Caucuses draw a different kind of voter.

But based on your opinions, you should have been outraged that in 2016 all Washington's delegates were chosen based on our caucuses, right? Because almost 4 times as many individual voters participated in our primaries, but none of the delegates were assigned by the primaries at all.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Tiggeroshii

(11,088 posts)
11. I consider the popular vote winner to be the legitimate winner
Mon Feb 10, 2020, 03:03 AM
Feb 2020

Regardless of the rules or the election. You clearly disagree.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

krissey

(1,205 posts)
13. Lol. Wow, to live in whatever world. But, you cannot expect the world to validate. Surely.
Mon Feb 10, 2020, 03:13 AM
Feb 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Tiggeroshii

(11,088 posts)
14. Sure. I just hope you dont ever say anybody else won an election when they won the popular vote
Mon Feb 10, 2020, 03:16 AM
Feb 2020

Even though they didnt win by the rules.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

krissey

(1,205 posts)
16. I state Clinton got 3 million more votes. Yes, I am consistent.
Mon Feb 10, 2020, 03:18 AM
Feb 2020

Obviously she did not win as she sits in her home in NY?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Tiggeroshii

(11,088 posts)
17. Cool. I believe she won.
Mon Feb 10, 2020, 03:20 AM
Feb 2020

And should have been declared the winner and would have been right to declare victory, even.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

krissey

(1,205 posts)
18. There is right and wrong. This would be an absolute wrong. I think it is clear so I got to
Mon Feb 10, 2020, 03:29 AM
Feb 2020

figure you are pulling my leg.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Tiggeroshii

(11,088 posts)
19. Most people here feel she won as well
Mon Feb 10, 2020, 03:30 AM
Feb 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

krissey

(1,205 posts)
20. Buttigieg for the win. I do not this you would have most people agreeing with your post.
Mon Feb 10, 2020, 03:32 AM
Feb 2020

Do a poll. Exactly as is. Lets see.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

pnwmom

(108,980 posts)
15. No, I am consistent, which is why I thought WA and all the caucus states should switch to primaries.
Mon Feb 10, 2020, 03:17 AM
Feb 2020

Caucuses aren't designed to be representative, or to get a significant proportion of the voting population to participate, and there is no such thing as a "popular vote" in a caucus.

No vote that excludes -- by its rules, timing, or other restrictions -- the votes of most of the population can be considered a popular vote.

No vote that excludes disabled or elderly people who can't stand around a gym for hours is a popular vote.
No vote that excludes people who work in the evenings can be a popular vote.
No vote that doesn't allow absentee ballots can be a popular vote.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

msongs

(67,420 posts)
8. last I checked bernie knew the rules and accepted them, having changed them himself lol nt
Mon Feb 10, 2020, 02:48 AM
Feb 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

unc70

(6,115 posts)
12. Bernie did not change them
Mon Feb 10, 2020, 03:08 AM
Feb 2020

Discrepancies four years ago in various caucus states resulted in the DNC forcing caucus states to change their rules.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

brooklynite

(94,600 posts)
25. That's true...and Pete got the most votes in more Districts
Mon Feb 10, 2020, 08:53 AM
Feb 2020

His support was spread around the State, rather than being clumped in College towns. Exactly like the Electoral College. You can complain about it all you want, but you have to work with the system you have, and try to change it later.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

democratisphere

(17,235 posts)
28. There is a difference between straight forward primary popular votes
Mon Feb 10, 2020, 09:00 AM
Feb 2020

and manipulated rigged caucus voting. Sanders is always bitching about a rigged systems. Hypocrite.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

thesquanderer

(11,990 posts)
33. You have to play by the rules of the contest. The winner of a baseball game...
Mon Feb 10, 2020, 10:27 AM
Feb 2020

...is the team who got more runs, not the team who got more hits, even though hits are the things that lead to runs. e.g. a team with one hit (a home run) can beat a team who had 9 hits (a single in each inning).

Similarly, the winner of a caucus is the candidate who got more delegates. They all knew the rules going in, and could strategize accordingly. Same with Hillary and the electoral college in 2016. She got more hits, but Trump got more runs.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

colorado_ufo

(5,734 posts)
22. Here in Colorado I have participated in the past in the caucus system
Mon Feb 10, 2020, 05:06 AM
Feb 2020

and am SO happy that, this year, we are having a primary for the presidential election. However, I understand that we are having the caucus system for the senate!

Are we trying to one-up Iowa?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(108,980 posts)
23. We've switched this year, too, thank goodness. I'm sorry if you'll have to do that for the Senate!
Mon Feb 10, 2020, 05:35 AM
Feb 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

TwilightZone

(25,471 posts)
24. They're already building in excuses in the event Sanders loses the nomination.
Mon Feb 10, 2020, 06:40 AM
Feb 2020

The ignorance is obvious and intentional and starts at the top. Sanders repeating the lie that he won doesn't help.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Fresh_Start

(11,330 posts)
29. they are claiming that California is conspiring against bernie
Mon Feb 10, 2020, 09:00 AM
Feb 2020

because bernie supporters registered as NPP (No party preference).

They just got their vote by mail ballots and SURPRISE they don't have any presidential candidates on it.

California had 6 of more than 20 political parties qualify to have a presidential primary.
If the voter didn't pick a party, they can't expect California to read their mind.

California sent a postcard to NPP voters before they sent out the ballots saying to update your registration if you don't want to be NPP.

But they are bernie supporters, so conspiracy theory is a better answer then oops I screwed up.


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Renew Deal

(81,863 posts)
27. The Sanders people are the same ones that will show up on convention day to "steal" delegates
Mon Feb 10, 2020, 08:57 AM
Feb 2020

I wouldn’t get caught up over idiosyncrasies of delegate allocation. Especially when there is a 2 delegate difference.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Fresh_Start

(11,330 posts)
31. best part of this....is that Buttigieg won many of the same rural precincts that
Mon Feb 10, 2020, 09:02 AM
Feb 2020

Sanders won in 2016.

Back then, Bernie didn't think it was unfair that the rural precincts mattered more.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

MineralMan

(146,317 posts)
34. Iowa's Over.
Mon Feb 10, 2020, 12:09 PM
Feb 2020

It didn't matter much before and it doesn't matter much now. Today, we're talking about New Hampshire, which also doesn't mean much in terms of the delegate count.

Pretty soon, we'll get around to talking about Super Tuesday, which matters a great deal. But, we're not talking about it yet, which is surprising and pretty funny, really. The candidates, too, are ignoring that even, which happens three weeks from tomorrow.

About the only one paying attention to Super Tuesday is Mike Bloomberg, who skipped the first four primaries and has flooded the airwaves with ads during the news hours on all TV networks. While all of the rest of the candidates are spending millions trying to get a few delegates from a few states, Bloomberg is focused on the primaries that send much larger delegations to the convention.

While the rest of the primary field is bickering and throwing shade on each other, Bloomberg is telling the Super Tuesday states what he plans to do, if elected, and going hard after Donald J. Trump.

I ask you, who is the smart candidate right now?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
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