by those intent on protecting a campaign in distress....

She was a plant. She was there, not with an open mind, but representing a candidate she does support.

insulting her? You think that's a valid tactic for Biden to use when he's already doing poorly there?

Here is her quote...

Joe Biden has been performing incredibly poorly in this race. His inability to answer a simple question from a nobody college student like me only exacerbates that reality.

That’s not an undecided voter talking.

You could clearly figure out by watching the interaction what she was up to. Her quote following it makes it even more obvious.

If you want to trash Biden for the language used, that’s fair. I have agreed it was bad. Biden was dumb because he knew what it was and still responded poorly.

But this woman was not an undecided voter. She was a plant, who asked a gotcha question. And then lied about it.

How about we agree that using plants is wrong. There are ACTUAL undecided voters who want to discuss issues. So let’s have them speak. Not play this BS from plants.

As for me, I haven't commented at all on what he said, because I don't have to. My decision not to support Biden (or move to him if Pete fails) came out of my visit to New Hampshire this weekend. He's just not the strong and compelling person he was when I met him as VP in a 30 minute extemporaneous conversation about every subject under the sun. Delivering a campaign speech by teleprompter to a crowd of maybe 200 people (Pete had 1800 yesterday, Amy had 1100) isn't the sign of a robust campaign.

Then you might be inexperienced in such matters.

Some people, like politicians, have people reading skills. Many people do not. Biden read her correctly. His mistake was reacting poorly in his choice of language.

Doesn’t mean she wasn’t a plant in the first place.

In fact, IMHO it makes Biden look worse, because he knew she was a plant yet couldn’t handle it properly. He made it worse on himself.

But she was not a poor undecided voter. Stop with that kinda crap. She was a plant who lied about it. But she wins in the end because Biden had a old reference brain fart.

How come you didn't do better in Iowa is a gotcha question?

If Biden wasn't prepared to answer that, he should have been. It's been a news story all week.

I don’t care how she felt.

Are we now following the Trump playbook?

It's like a defensive off-sides penalty in football? Doesn't matter what the offense does because the play will be null if it goes bad?

GET THE PITCHFORKS—SHE DIDN'T ANSWER CORRECTLY.

And she's not running for President.

I have no sympathy for her.

speak to a woman like this? Just trying to keep track. Thx

do you know the difference between an apple and an orange?

He denied the accusation. Period. He also has a 30+ year history of documented instances of him encouraging women to run and speaking out for those that do. But don't let the facts get in the way of a good rant.

It was the wrong thing to say no matter who said it.

they want to believe?

support your assertion?

and it makes me curious about how truthful she's being about her reaction to him now.

She came to the rally, not to support Biden, nor with an open mind. She came to insult him, and remind him of a loss. He was to kind to her in my opinion.
Frankly, I have been called a lot worse.

after being asked a legitimate question from a 21 year old woman... and this guy can win in the general?

Not so sure....

jokes are supposed to be funny. I don't think it is a joke to call someone a liar. I don't find the humor in calling someone dog-faced. I believe pony-soldier is mocking Native American speech patterns when using English, so vaguely racist. I wish I were surprised at how quickly and vehemently his supporters are defending it.

K&R

about it.

I see no reason to believe anything she says. It's apparent she went there to confront him and try to create a moment that would be bad for him, and she's trying to capitalize on it and she continues to disparage him.

you (or anyone with class, for that matter) jokingly called someone "Dog Faced"?

soldier, either.

Btw, you can get the 82nd Airborne's recording of "Dog Faced Solider":

https://www.amazon.com/Dog-Faced-Soldier/dp/B0011XV6SK


Again, it was obviously a silly line meant as a joke, as Biden reacted to her lying.

the other day, as was shown in a clip on Morning Joe today...This is getting nuts. Thanks for the link

Please post proof that he had any reason to believe she was lying.

But Biden needs to use better terminology.

He helped create this narrative with his choice of words.

I knew she was a plant when she asked the question. Biden knew too, but reacted poorly in dealing with it.

you knowing she was a plant and all. I expect some proof beyond "it was obvious" or you're a lying dog-faced pony soldier.

It’s obvious to anyone with any political skills, or even people reading skills. Biden read it correctly, but then reacted poorly.

here bizarrely charged because the apparent inspiration for the line came from an old Western and therefore it was automatically racist. And Biden wasn't lying about the line, or misremembering it, as others have charged, because he got it from his brother, a John Wayne fan, and apparently believed his brother that it was from a John Wayne film.

Calling another member here that would get a hide and that DUer may be shown the door.

K&r

I can't but wonder if she was a plant by either Sanders or the GOP. I wouldn't put it past either of them.

Biden so she wouldn't just be a nobody college student.

I don't believe she was questioning him in good faith.

make that fairly self evident.

.... which the accusers are now wearing. Joe's supporters have practically begged people to come up with something better to rebut, but time after time y'all keep coming up with stuff that's a couple of dimes short of a quarter.

He just can't help himself. This level of malarkey will not bring new voters to the polls.

In a court case I was involved with, the judge told the jury that if a witness lies on the stand, you should consider everything else that that person says is a lie and they need to prove to YOU they are being truthful.

I follow this in life.

Biden was joking...she lied about herself...

Easy to know who to support.



ONLY!!! 2020 and beyond.

Can we please stop with this? It getting way out of hand. The people on both sides of this are now throwing out stuff like this, and it isn’t helping.

Yes, the woman was a plant and Tried to make Biden look bad.

And she succeeded because Biden reacted poorly and used a dumb expression.

Disclaimer: I’m a lawyer. That is NOT the proper jury instruction. No court would ever say that. Not one.

No criminal defendant must ever prove that they are innocent. The state always has the burden of proof. If a defense witness lies about something.....the state still has the burden of proof.

I guarantee you that the jury instruction was similar to the one below.

1.7 CREDIBILITY OF WITNESSES

In deciding the facts in this case, you may have to decide which testimony to believe and which testimony not to believe. You may believe everything a witness says, or part of it, or none of it.

In considering the testimony of any witness, you may take into account:

(1) the witness’s opportunity and ability to see or hear or know the things testified to;

(2) the witness’s memory;

(3) the witness’s manner while testifying;

(4) the witness’s interest in the outcome of the case, if any;

(5) the witness’s bias or prejudice, if any;

(6) whether other evidence contradicted the witness’s testimony;

(7) the reasonableness of the witness’s testimony in light of all the evidence; and

(8) any other factors that bear on believability.

You must avoid bias, conscious or unconscious, based on a witness’s race, color, religious beliefs, national ancestry, sexual orientation, gender identity, gender, or economic circumstances in your determination of credibility.

The weight of the evidence as to a fact does not necessarily depend on the number of witnesses who testify about it. What is important is how believable the witnesses are, and how much weight you think their testimony deserves.

the following link.

http://www3.ce9.uscourts.gov/jury-instructions/node/306

Really would have helped your 'im a lawyer' statement if you would have responded to my post in your own LAWYER words instead of the first link to pop up in a search.

Sorry...but you are now on ignore since IMHO, you fit the criteria of my first post.

Bye...



ONLY!!! 2020 and beyond.

So the hell what.

The entire point of Iowa and New Hampshire is that candidates are expected to relate to voters face to face. And a good candidate (especially one with 30+ years of campaigning) should know how to deal with people, even belligerent ones with an agenda. Bill Clinton was a master at diffusing confrontations with hecklers and difficult questioners and coming out on top. No excuse for Biden in this case.

Focus on that.

But the poor little undecided voter stuff........BS.

You know it and I know it.

went on to (respectfully) answer the obviously planted question, to the satisfaction of the audience. In complete control throughout. To characterize that Biden "lost" this round, or "didn't come out on top" .. is to assert an outcome that just plainly didn't occur.

Biden conjured up a weird phrase that had everyone guessing .. but that's the sum total of what transpired here.

...."incident".

So, if she's accusing him of being insulting to her, WHY DID SHE LIE TO HIM, as she's now admitted????? She said flat out that she'd been to a caucus before, and now admits she hasn't. Isn't lying to one's face insulting in her world? It sure is in the real world.

(that sent everyone rushing off to google)

But CLEARLY without malice or intent to demean. (watch the damned clip!)

The outrage and "offense" are largely manufactured .. by the "usual suspects" .. to borrow another line that is fading from the collective.

remark. She does not, in fact, use the word "insulted" at all. Her complaint is limited to the fact of being asked if she'd been to a caucus, which she called "irrelevant".

should be fucking embarrassed. It makes me sad to read that on a liberal discussion board. Jesus Christ.

Now it’s “ha ha she deserved it”

...many people are way too invested in a narrative about his invincibility. So much so that those within the DU bubble can't even acknowledge that his campaign is in trouble and are willing to defend his insulting a questioner.

"The phrase was an allusion to a line in a John Wayne movie that Biden had used before. But Moore said she was flummoxed at his reaction to what she thought was a legitimate question."

Silly women. How could she not see that being called “dog-faced” was just an archaic joke?

(Sarcasm, in case anyone needs it)

when using words like "malarkey" versus calling 21 year old women "Dog faced" liars.

Oh wait... he was joking! Nothing to see here folks. Move along.

Opposition campaigns are going to send hecklers. It’s a cheap and trashy technique but they do it in order to rattle their components.

The optics of the exchange between Biden and the plant are not favorable for the Biden campaign. I get that he used some kind of old-timey retort and I could care less. But it gave his opposition fodder for their deceptive campaigns. I hope he learns from it and does better.