a socialist in the Venezuelan or Cuban model.

Appreciate it extra when we come together here DESPITE supporting different candidates!!

Until we have a nominee, I'm going to advocate for the one(s) I think are best. Right now, that's Amy.


I am also going to sound the alarm bells about the one(s) I think would lose.

a Bernie / Amy ticket?

Would have widespread appeal, I think!

So I don't think he'd choose Amy.

I think it is more likely he'd choose Tulsi.



If he gets the nomination, he would be wise to consider Amy though.

Anecdotal of course but deplorables are deplorables.

Democratic Socialism is technically an interim phase in the transition to full on Marxist Socialism (look it up).

Now I think that Sanders, AOC, and all the others who call themselves Democratic Socialists actually support Social Democratic policies, not true Democratic Socialism, but that is the term they have chosen to use.

Democratic Socialism is not an interim phase towards Marxist/Leninism (the dictatorship of the proletariat).

There has been only one identifiably Democratic Socialist government since WWII. That would be Clement Attlee's UK Labor Party. The nationalized / social welfare state was not an interim phase - it was the objective.

Although I’m fine if Sanders is the nominee, the statement above will surely be used against him. Of course, Social Democracy is complex and finely nuanced, but few Americans will bother to educate themselves beyond memes on Facebook.

Making a tax code that benefits the rich is socialism. Financial incentives for business is socialism. Foreign aid that requires purchases from American arms dealers is socialism.

I'm sure others could add to that list.

The point is we already have socialism in the USA, it socialism for the rich and capitalism for the rest.

The Prime Minister of Denmark took particular issue with Bernie's claim that Denmark was socialist: https://www.vox.com/2015/10/31/9650030/denmark-prime-minister-bernie-sanders, and the former Swedish PM, Carl Bildt, has done the same regarding his country. The Nordic countries are not socialist. They are constitutional monarchies (except for Iceland and Finland), with democratically-elected parliaments; and they have highly-regulated capitalist economies with robust social programs supported by very high taxes. Bernie's "Nordic model," to the extent it is characterized as socialist, is simply incorrect, as the people who actually live there will tell you.

Someone needs to ask him are you a Democratic Socialist or a Social Democrat or something in between? Because what he talks about is as you say is Social Democracy.

This is how Wikipedia covers this:

Sanders is a self-described "democratic socialist",[259] and progressive who admires the Nordic model of social democracy and has been a proponent of workplace democracy.[260] He advocates for universal and single-payer healthcare, paid parental leave, as well as tuition-free tertiary education."[261] He supports lowering the cost of drugs by reforming patent laws to allow cheaper generic versions to be sold in the U.S.[262] He supported the Affordable Care Act, though he said it did not go far enough.[263] In November 2015, he gave a speech at Georgetown University about his view of democratic socialism, including its place in the policies of presidents Franklin D. Roosevelt and Lyndon B. Johnson.[264][265] In defining what democratic socialism means to him, Sanders said: "I don't believe government should take over the grocery store down the street or own the means of production, but I do believe that the middle class and the working families who produce the wealth of America deserve a decent standard of living and that their incomes should go up, not down. I do believe in private companies that thrive and invest and grow in America, companies that create jobs here, rather than companies that are shutting down in America and increasing their profits by exploiting low-wage labor abroad."[264] Based on his positions and votes throughout his political career, Noam Chomsky and Thomas Frank have described Sanders as "a New Dealer".[d][266] Other observers, such as Lane Kenworthy and Bhaskar Sunkara, suggest that his views are more closely related to those of social democrats.[267][268]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernie_Sanders#Political_positions

ANY redistribution of wealth is socialism? Use of private funds for public benefit?

then democracy will be our past. He will lose big-time. We will lose Congress, both houses. We are losing the judiciary already.

We need someone who can win.

I totally agree.

Bernie's label. If you have to keep clarifying, and few people can agree on what his label should be, he has lost already. It creates confusion and people will walk away.

The other candidates are Democrats. Maybe they have not been Democrats always, but they are now.

Don’t sweat it.

-Laelth

Or whatever the Kardashians are into on Instagram. Good luck.

I don’t think socialism or socialist is something one need be defensive about, as an aside. Proposed policies can be weighed by people.

are as different as night and day. A democratic socialist is an almost dyed in the wool socialist who believe that government should control all societal functions. A social democrat is a capitalist that believes in sharing some wealth with the whole of society, but also in a free enterprise system of private ownership of means of production.

I think then he is a social Democrat.

I would add that in social democracies it is acceptable for a specific industry to have socialized ownership (like health care) if it appears to work better, but otherwise a market economy is preferred.

He regularly appeared on "The Thom Hartman" radio show for years and proudly called himself a "socialist" without the word "democratic" in front of it.

In more recent years he's added the word "democratic" cn front of it to soften the negativity of it as he became interested in using the Democratic Party to run for president. But video and ample other evidence is out there of him touting socialism. He should've said years ago he was a "social democrat" in the Nordic model if that is really what he meant but he's stuck with the baggage-laden, self-appellation of "democratic socialist" when the social democracies of Europe are actually capitalist countries, not democratic socialist countries.

Labeling himself a democratic socialist was a mistake not just because there actually is a Democratic Socialist Party in the US which actively advocates actual socialism, historically there's never been a sustained, successful deployment of socialism in any country, and the repugs will run ads 24/7 showing videos of him actually saying "I am a socialist".

And as I've said, the social democracies of Europe are actually highly regulated and highly taxed capitalist countries with strong, robust safety nets provided for by the high taxes—single payer healthcare, free college, etc..

You really want to spend every day up until the election explaining that Sanders is a "Good kind" of socialist?



Sure, Republicans have been calling Democrats socialists for years, but I don't recall them being able to put together an ad of the Democratic candidate literally starting into the camera and saying "I am a socialist."

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The basic difference is that social democracies have market-based economies (although have social ownership of necessary industries like health care), while in democratic socialism industry is controlled solely by the people/workers.

I'm not sure which Bernie would prefer as his ultimate goal--my confusion comes because Bernie does not define himself as a capitalist, a key component of social democracy.

I would say Warren's plans would define her as a social democrat in Norway for example (capitalist with socialized services where needed, or where capitalism doesn't work well).

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