Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumBernie Sanders would be a disaster if he becomes our nominee..
This is not a I hate Bernie Sanders because he is a Democratic Socialist. I do not know Bernie Sanders personally. We have seen him speak, and were more than a little disappointed.
At his speaking events in Iowa, he talked about how the corporates are killing us, and he wants MFA, free college, restore taxes to pay for it all.. Its wonderful cheering lines, but his payment process would increase social security taxes on us by 33% from what I can tease out because he is so vague on his proposals.
We have an infrastructure that is falling apart. The process of climate change if not addressed, then everything else is pointless. If you do not have potable water, arable land, and breathable air.. nothing else means squat. We cease to exist.
In all his years in Washington, he has written 3 bills, (2 naming post-offices) and signed on to other bills 200 times.
I have not even touched his choice and re-choice of people to run his campaign.. He just does not have the stuff.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
at140
(6,110 posts)if he is the nominee.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
What is it about the Biden camp which makes them so paranoid of a progressive candidate?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
samnsara
(17,634 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)We're looking into Caribbean property, just in case.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Perseus
(4,341 posts)You will be able to get your "Universal Healthcare" even being in the island, a question is if the island will recognize a USA "Universal Insurance", you will also be eligible for "Free Education", that is of course if the island accepts it, but nonetheless you can always come back home and claim your free services.
I am keeping my passport updated in case we Democrats screw things up by creating animosity between supporters and the creature wins another term, then things will really get ugly, but for Sanders? I think I can live with that.
I can live with any Democrat candidate winning.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)Hubby is still a full time employed professor, so we wouldn't be gone all year. Still, it would give us the feeling of an escape route.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Desert grandma
(804 posts)Our passports are handy too. Not in case Sanders wins the nomination, but because he will surely lose the GE. We will not live under 4 more years of the Orange Maggot and his corrupt administration.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
trueblue2007
(17,234 posts)I am doing that ... i have congestive heart failure
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)My husband has a heart murmur and will need surgery at some point. He is 78 now, and is doing everything he can to put off surgery as long as possible.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Yes, my passports are up to date. Bernie will be ripped to shreds in a general imo.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Bleacher Creature
(11,257 posts)You're probably going to take a bit of grief, but I agree with you 100%.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MontanaFarmer
(630 posts)65-70% of our party can see right through him. He's a policy lightweight, and i believe it was Martin o'Malley and even Hillary referring recently to him basically as conning folks into supporting him. How and why does he have such durable support from a decently large faction of our party? Makes no sense.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
CalFione
(571 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MontanaFarmer
(630 posts)We will get there. It's early yet, and proportional delegate allocation buys time to consolidate. The desire to oust trump among the dem rank and file is so strong i really think much of this primary fight will be forgotten the instant it's over. I suspect a recent former president is waiting in the wings to help facilitate that also.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
CalFione
(571 posts)will bring everyone together in Milwaukee.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Callado119
(171 posts)Looking at the polls coming out today, the anti-sanders candidates are so fractured with no one able to consolidate support, that sanders could build an insurmountable lead winning just 25 to 30 percent of the vote on Super Tuesday. Then were all doomed.
People need to put their egos aside and start dropping out NOW
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Maribelle
(4,783 posts)I hear Trump sending out strong hints to Trump Lemmings who could be pretending they are Sanders supports from time to time.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
at140
(6,110 posts)because the Trump economy is benefiting the top 10% but the middle 70% are hurting.
Middle class can not afford the high cost of sending kids to good colleges.
And middle class is drowning in debt, because they must borrow to keep up with ballooning costs of housing and healthcare. The bottom 20% is basically marching in place.
Sanders may not be their first choice, but middle class is desperate for a serious change and only 2 candidates are talking serious change. It is the Trump policies causing support for Sanders.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Kerrycrat
(159 posts)But it doesnt explain 2016, before Trump
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
at140
(6,110 posts)so the 2 situations can not be explained by the same reasons.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
hedda_foil
(16,375 posts)After the crash of 2008, millions were far worse off than they had been. careers lost, homes foreclosed, companies moved abroad, all of that was affecting a huge segment of the population despite Obama's best efforts. Much of that was due to Republican obstruction, though some of it was exacerbated by the prevailing neoliberal philosophy of both parties. Bernie and Trump both appealed to that segment of voters. Trump added a heavy dose of racism and ugliness, but he promised great health care, great jobs, infrastructure, etc. In other words, the economic policies he advanced at the time were liberal. He didn't mean it. Bernie did and still does. That doesn't mean he will be able to get Congress to pass most of what he wants, but he's well aware of that.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Kerrycrat
(159 posts)I was reacting to the durable support. Durable makes me think of last election as well as this one
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
redqueen
(115,103 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
mountain grammy
(26,644 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
tecelote
(5,122 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
certainot
(9,090 posts)trump is the result of democrats ignoring talk radio for 30 years
bernie's popularity and trump's 'success' in 2016 has to be measured against 20 years of talk radio hate for clinton, with the benghazi email event being the latest
trump had sasm nunberg listen to "1000s of hours of talk radio" in 2014 yet talk radio is so far off the radar MSNBC caan have nunberg on 50 times and never ask about that.
limbaugh spent the primaries making excuses for trump while dissing their establishment candidates bush, rubio and still doing the clinton hate
what was that worth? at $1000/hr x 15hrs/day x 1200 coordinated radio stations following limbaugh make being able to feed him from mara lago or russia worth about $5BIL/yr FREE. ignoring 30 years of that made single payer impossible, not lack of effort by obama or dem establishment - all of this still being pushed 15 pts right because dems continue to ignore talk radio or wait for it to fall aapart on its own and wait for accidents like limbaugh's lung cancer
there will be no national fact based discussion about candidates or issues we aren't letting them interfere with. all these candidates and their advisors and dem and prog leadership continue the biggest political mistake in history.
all a candidate has to do is mention on one of the 87 major unis that broadcast sports on 260 limbaugh stations how fucking stupid that is and that will blow it all up, getting a huge ridiculous howl about "free speech!" from the right, and causing the ad industry to destroy the only advantage trump has. or maybe a michael moore, who says we're doomed without GOTV, who ignores thaat university of michigan 7 and michigan state 11 support 18 limbaugh stations while they excuse global warming, lead in water, school privatization, trumpism, etc....
and yet thousand of students at those universities will be all over social media and the internet analyzing and blaming symptoms of ignoring talk radio - like studying fish without water
all the doom is bullshit and the russian trump interference is miniscule to what dems could do merely by pushing the talk radio monopoly and that $5BIL/year off a cliff.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
McKim
(2,412 posts)Great post, we need real change. When 42% of children in my local public schools are on free lunch, you know something is very wrong. Just take a ride on a public bus to see how downtrodden people look, sad and hopeless. The Democratic Party used to respresent those folks.
They are still waiting for Hope and Change. For any moderate democrat who can truthfully offer a Sanders/Warren platform, the world is your oyster!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
progressoid
(49,992 posts)It made a critical turn with the policies of Ronnie Raygun and sadly often aided and abetted by Democrats. Sanders voters, and to some extent Warren voters, are tired of waiting for the promises of incremental changes to happen.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Kerrycrat
(159 posts)But the how still needs to be explained
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)There are people that are hurting here for sure but it's not 70%. They can't build houses and condos fast enough for people that are moving here. Running on the economy is not going to win this election unless there is a recession
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
at140
(6,110 posts)It is not the economy in the sense that people are jobless. Actually there are abundant jobs. The problem is something else for the middle class, which is that costs of healthcare, housing, food are escalating faster than their incomes are rising. And check tuitions in good colleges. So people with jobs are buying houses and it looks like prosperity, but it is a mirage because the mortgage loans are also high and the debt levels are rising.
The reason top 10% have benefited most because they received 85% of the tax cut dollars and they own lion's share of the stocks which are booming.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Happy Hoosier
(7,372 posts)... my own opinion that is that "serious change" can wait until we've averted disaster. It's a sirens call. Fool's gold. WE cannot affect change if we cannot win. And I think Sanders is a loser in the GE. I hope I'm wrong, but feel pretty firmly I'm not.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
at140
(6,110 posts)my post was simply trying to explain why so many voters are supporting Sanders.
DU posters are more astute politically, the general voting population is not as sophisticated.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Perseus
(4,341 posts)Amy has her baggage like anyone else, but any Democratic candidate will be better than trump, and unless we as Democrats screw up, any of our candidates will beat him.
Like Michael Moore said, "Democrats can win in November, we just have to wait and see if the manage to screw this one too."
And our bickering will help screw things up. Let voters decide, you are not going to turn anyone to support Amy, or Biden, or anyone else by bashing the other candidates, it just doesn't work.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
JoeDuck
(79 posts)Some folks are posting so many reasons why this candidate or that candidate can't win, or can't improve things, or who makes them hang onto their passports so they can flee the country if so-and-so wins, it is making me wonder if I should just stay home on election day because no candidate deserves my vote. And I have been a Democrat since I registered to vote in 1961.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)Bernie promises a lot of things that will never happen. Just like MFA in Vermont
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
hughee99
(16,113 posts)We accuse republicans of supporting candidates who offer them things they want that someone else will pay for. Why is it that this mentality should be automatically exclusively republican?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Rorey
(8,445 posts)As I'll do no matter who wins it.
I'm begging Sanders supporters to make the same pledge. BEGGING.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,634 posts)at least we can stop some of Trumps horrific shit and maybe save the ACA. We will lose all health care if Trump wins...probably and for sure if the house falls...
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
joost5
(421 posts)If we fail to flip the Senate, it doesn't matter what wonderful proposals pass through the House. Moscow Mitch will continue blocking everything.
Need a moderate to help elect Dems up and down the ticket to flip the Senate and keep the House. It's imperative we ditch Mitch.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,634 posts)in red and purples states.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Rorey
(8,445 posts)But I'm also a realist. I'm definitely terrified.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,634 posts)and coalesce around one candidate so we can stop Sanders without a messy convention. If Biden doesn't do really well in Carolina, I will switch to Bloomberg. I don't see Buttigieg, Kobabachar or Warren (she would be great though) winning a general at this point.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Rorey
(8,445 posts)I need to be a little closer to Super Tuesday before commitment.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,634 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
joost5
(421 posts)Link to tweet
Im not a Democrat, so Im not telling Democrats what to do. And Im not saying any of the other Dem candidates couldnt beat Trump. Maybe they all could. But heres what I know FOR CERTAIN:
@amyklobuchar would absolutely kick Trumps ass in November. Shed beat him. For sure.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LuvNewcastle
(16,849 posts)I think Klobuchar would wipe the floor with Trump. If we were going to nominate a woman, she would be perfect, although she's a wonderful candidate regardless of gender. I'm thinking it's going to be her or Bloomberg that the moderates coalesce around. A Klobuchar/Bloomberg ticket would be great, if you could get Bloomberg to be VP, but the reverse would be a strong ticket as well. It would be respectable for a change.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,634 posts)after Carolina ...super Tuesday at the latest, the better. I would prefer that the moderates who are not going to win drop before super Tuesday.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
demosincebirth
(12,541 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Rorey
(8,445 posts)But I fear so.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
redstatebluegirl
(12,265 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
calimary
(81,425 posts)McGovern redux.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Happy Hoosier
(7,372 posts)After spending the weekend with some hard core Sandernistas, they are convinced only their guy is worth supporting. It's a cult of personality.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Fresh_Start
(11,330 posts)he wrote more bills but they never enacted
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Kerrycrat
(159 posts)They call him the amendment king for a reason
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Fresh_Start
(11,330 posts)did you see his amendment king period was upto 2007?
I checked after 2007, only 2 roll call amendments passed.
2 Roll call amendments which passed:
2015-2016 S.Amdt.386 - To establish a deficit-neutral reserve fund to protect Medicaid beneficiaries from benefit cuts.
2009-2010 S.AMDT.3738 - To require the non-partisan Government Accountability Office to conduct an independent audit of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System that does not interfere with monetary policy, to let the American people know the names of the recipients of over $2,000,000,000,000 in taxpayer assistance from the Federal Reserve System, and for other purposes.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DanTex
(20,709 posts)Polls show the majority of Americans support them.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)Raising taxes is a GE loser. Taxing billionaires won't pay for everything
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DanieRains
(4,619 posts)I feel sorry so many of my friends here are so confused about the math stuff.
The estimates of their wealth (which they keep hidden) is between 30 trillion and 60 trillion.
We are in so much trouble because they don't pay for hardly anything, and profit while the planet burns.
Time to fix it.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Kerrycrat
(159 posts)They will stand still for that? That they wont find tax loopholes to save what they have? Wed have to have a Senate and House chock full of progressives to even get much of what Bernie proposes enacted.
It comes down to how again. Hes not going to be elected king. He cant just do these things with a decree.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
oldsoftie
(12,584 posts)There are so many ways to hide assets. And if you force people to just call themselves citizens of "X" to avoid taxes, they will.
In Europe EVERYBODY PAYS. Why is that so hard to understand over HERE?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)Yeah great idea! Another GE losing idea.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DanieRains
(4,619 posts)A winning message.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)For all of Bernies plans. That will require a tax increase. How much? He wont tell us now.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DanieRains
(4,619 posts)Others do it.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Kerrycrat
(159 posts)Its not the what.
Its the how.
Specifics would be nice
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
dware
(12,423 posts)So most conservatives support him?
Most Independents support him?
Most Moderates support him?
Yeah? I don't think so, just wait until the Trump campaign starts putting out the oppo they have on him, it will be a disaster for our Party, especially down ballot Democrats.
You can kiss the House goodbye, and any chance of regaining the Senate.
I know you disagree with this, and that's ok by me, but I'm closer to the truth of what will happen than you are IMO.
And as far as polls go, the same polls had HRC winning by a landslide in 2016, so excuse me if I have a healthy skepticism about polls.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DanTex
(20,709 posts)And if you dont believe in polls, then what are you basing your belief that Bernies policies are unpopular on?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
dware
(12,423 posts)on the road, at pick ups, at deliveries, at truck stops, etc, the overwhelming thought is that Bernie will lose big time and we'll be stuck with the Mango Menace for another 4 years.
Truck drivers especially are fucking pissed off because of the tariffs Trump has put in place, it has impacted us like no other industry out there, especially us owner/operators.
So go on and keep believing the polls, I'll believe what I hear out in the actual public, and if Bernie becomes our candidate and, as more likely will happen, he gets hammered in the GE, then don't be surprised or put off when those of us that tried to warn about what was going to happen tell you I told you so.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DanTex
(20,709 posts)I was an HRC supporter in 2016, basically for the reasons you describe. The polls actually had Bernie doing much better than HRC versus Trump, but the conventional wisdom was that Bernie couldn't win, and that HRC would walk all over Trump. Then HRC lost, and some Bernie people did say "I told you so."
Which I thought was pretty rude of them. But they kind of had a point. And they kind of had a point again when this election came around, that trying to run a centrist no-too-inspiring candidate against Trump was basically trying the same thing and expecting different results.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
dware
(12,423 posts)some are Trump supporters, some just won't vote if Bernie is the candidate or will vote for Trump.
The bottom line is that there's a lot of angst among the ordinary working people about Trump and Bernie, and the polls just don't seem to get that, I actually wonder if they get out and talk to the ordinary working people or if they just sit in their offices and just call people.
Any way you look at it, IMO, if Bernie is our nominee, then prepare for another 4 years of the Mango Menace and the almost certain loss of the House and no chance to retake the Senate.
Just my learned opinion.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
kstewart33
(6,551 posts)Especially losses in the down ballot races.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,634 posts)even to billionaires...no income cap on Sander's free college.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DanTex
(20,709 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,634 posts)polls on taxes for these pricey policies...I personally object to paying for millionaire's and billionaires kids to go to school. Warren's plan is better...there should be a cap. Sanders own family members would get free tuition, and he is a millionaire.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DanieRains
(4,619 posts)Can pay less for healthcare.
Let the untaxed 1% pay for it.
And it will be guaranteed.
Hard to get past the fear stuff though.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
handmade34
(22,757 posts)yes, people like the idea of stuff and thinking people understand realities... but... trump and the Republicans have instilled irrational fears into a percentage of people we need to win this (irrational fear of socialism, taxes, loss of freedom, etc.)
my example continues to be right here in Vermont... Vermont likes Bernie, Vermont votes for Bernie, Vermont is not like any other state.... yet, even with our progressive support of Bernie, Vermont cannot get done the policies Bernie advocates... and we know those people in the swing states sure as hell are not buying into his talk
national polls are one thing, electoral college is another
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Kerrycrat
(159 posts)People look hard at Petes record in South Bend, but I never hear much about Bernies record, or influence, in Vermont
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,634 posts)imagine the horror of having a president like Trump in control of M4A...and the GOP raising taxes and cutting benefits whenever they are elected...there would be shitty basic coverage in my opinion. I prefer the ACA with a public option...now I have private insurance and would not want M4A period at this time. I see no purpose in trashing the ACA and starting over. If the public option is popular, we will end up with universal coverage anyway....and even AOC admits M4A won't pass Congress. The fear you speak of is rational...no one has any idea how much it will cost and what the benefits will be in the end.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MontanaMama
(23,336 posts)would give their employees raises IF theyre paying less for healthcare. Thats a big leap.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DanTex
(20,709 posts)Yeah, that pushes the number down LOL. And if you tell people positive things about M4A then the number goes up.
And free college polls well also, even though you don't like it. Don't worry, you wouldn't be paying for anyone's college unless you are extremely wealthy. And Warren agrees, by the way. The person who wants to means-test it is Pete.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,634 posts)destroyed Clinton care...the ACA is a proven winner for us...M4A is not.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DanTex
(20,709 posts)Nobody is surprised that poll numbers can be changed depending on what pollsters tell people. But if they just describe the policy without any pro- or anti- talking points, it has majority support.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,634 posts)Last edited Tue Feb 18, 2020, 03:02 PM - Edit history (1)
wrap around and payroll taxes would go way up. Telling people there will be free insurance is a lie. And I have no doubt in the end, there will be copays and deductibles... In Canada that everyone talks about...they don't pay for prescriptions... and the UK has been cutting benefits. What we will end up with is basic insurance where much is not covered.
And I have no doubt the right wing courts would do a number on it even if it passed...and during the process we lose the ACA which has already been hurt by Sander's push for M4A. We are fighting for the ACA in court...and it gives the judges almost permission to find against it...I will never forgive Sanders if the ACA goes down as real people will be hurt. And there is no chance even according to AOC that M4A can pass congress. Putting every American on M4A would
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DanTex
(20,709 posts)You might think it's misleading, but it's not nearly as misleading to tell people their private insurance will be taken away.
That's the whole point, though. Once you get into telling people talking points, you can move the poll numbers one way or the other depending on whose talking points you use. But if you poll without talking points, M4A has majority support.
And how exactly has Bernie hurt ACA? By voting for it? What?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,634 posts)since private insurance would be outlawed excep I suppose for pricey wraps... it is not misleading...private insurance would go away. And it would be unaffordable for most IMHO. And little by little as the years go by...coverage would decline and copays and deductibles would be back.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
MrsCoffee
(5,803 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,634 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)Promising free college in college towns. He did that last time and lost by 3 million votes.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Even so... another series of allegations unsupported by provided data (i.e., none) isn't going to convince anyone other than his flock or anything, any more that yelling 2+2=22 will.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DanTex
(20,709 posts)so apparently people are, in fact, joining the "flock" of the candidate who proposes policies that are widely popular.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
rzemanfl
(29,567 posts)I won't though.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
zackymilly
(2,375 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
rzemanfl
(29,567 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
zackymilly
(2,375 posts)There will be some stiff competition.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
rzemanfl
(29,567 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
CousinIT
(9,254 posts)If he is the nominee he'll get my vote. But Dems would lose in 40 states.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
aikoaiko
(34,183 posts)If Bernie's our candidate, it will be alright.
About the same level of alright if its Joe, Elizabeth, Amy, Pete, or even Bloomberg.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,634 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
PatSeg
(47,563 posts)but yes, I would vote for Bloomberg over Sanders. As a person, I like Sanders better, but Bloomberg would be a better president. Hopefully, I won't have to.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,634 posts)and all his talk about not taking money etc...means a terrible loss and probably the house as well.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
PatSeg
(47,563 posts)in a general election and if we lose both the house and the senate in the process, we're done as a democracy.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
dem4decades
(11,301 posts)I'm all in for Mike if it comes down between him and Bernie.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ProfessorPlum
(11,267 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
cilla4progress
(24,760 posts)Certain amount of symbolism, statement, in his campaign. It represents something. Millenials ready to go for broke. Much like trumpers supposedly were - pissed off at being ignored. Not much to lose with climate change, corruption.
This from a nephew working on the campaign.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
JudyM
(29,265 posts)negotiation effort on some significant bills, these for example:
https://www.brookings.edu/research/profiles-in-negotiation-the-veterans-deal-of-2014/
https://www.thedailybeast.com/bernie-sanders-moves-to-rescue-yemen-withdrawal-after-house-screwed-it-up
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,634 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
PatSeg
(47,563 posts)and apparently a very effective one, but I cannot see him as an effective president. That takes a very different type of person. President of the United States is one of the most complex jobs imaginable and takes a unique set of skills and abilities.
I don't see those skills and abilities in Sanders. Can he compromise and bend when necessary and will he surround himself with experienced, knowledgeable people? If so, will he listen to them? By the looks of his campaign staff, it does not appear that he is a discerning leader. Are these the people he will take with him to the White House? Will we be trading one circus for another that's not so bad?
I've liked Bernie Sanders for many years. I liked him as an outspoken voice for more progressive policies, but what I'm seeing now is changing my opinion of him. Is he being driven by his genuine desire for positive change or has his ego taken the wheel? I suppose it is inevitable that those huge crowds could go to one's head (ask Beto O'Rourke), and maybe he has been swept up in the excitement that he created.
In Sanders I see a barn burner style activist, who can draw large crowds and excite people, but I don't see a diplomat, a problem solver, a decision maker, or a Commander-in-Chief.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MasonDreams
(756 posts)He's just a rabble-rouser like Martin Luther King or Jesus.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
PatSeg
(47,563 posts)Gandhi was an inspirational leader, but he was not a governmental leader. Martin Luther King or Jesus? Neither of them were president. There are different kinds of leaders who serve different purposes.
Mandela was president, but I really don't see too many similarities between him and Sanders.
As for being an activist, there is nothing wrong with that. We need our activists and Bernie was good at it. That is a different kind of leader, than President of the United States. There are many ways to serve, clearly not everyone can be president and obviously many should not. If an idealist thinks the only way he/she can bring about change is by being president, then they are a little too full of themselves. Do they truly want to serve or do they want the power and adulation that comes with high office?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MasonDreams
(756 posts)I just got triggered and activated. All my heros got their heads busted and jailed for US. Women can vote, children don't work in the mines, and the 14th Amendment is the law.
"Service to others is Man's highest calling." I think that one was Buddha I could be wrong.
"Moderation in temper is always a virtue, but moderation in principle is always a vice." I know that was Thomas Paine. Principle, I think is the best guard against the corruption of power and vanity.
Correct me if I'm wrong, doesn't Bernie say "US not me" every day?
"Stronger Together" was Hillary's and it can't be said enough.
"We can work it out" Beatles
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
PatSeg
(47,563 posts)and as I said, they each serve a purpose. Not everyone is cut out to be a president, but they certainly can make a difference in other ways.
As for Bernie Sanders, I've always like him, but never saw him as president.
1) I'm afraid he will lose a general election.
2) He does not have the necessary skills to bring about the changes he advocates. That takes compromise and diplomacy, not just lofty rhetoric. What plays well at rallies, doesn't always work in the White House and congress.
3) His hiring choices for his campaign staff really concern me. He doesn't seem to have a lot of control over them and will he bring them to the White House? Or hire more people like them?
4) Will he release his full medical record? Normally I wouldn't make a big deal out of that one, but he just had a heart attack and people his age usually have another within approximately three years. People had a right to be concerned under the circumstances.
Bernie helped pull the party further to the left and that is a really good thing, but I think he could have served the country better by not running this time and helping other Democrats in their elections. Things are starting to feel as divisive now as they were in 2016 and I'm afraid they will get worse. Everyone who is paying attention is on edge. You are not alone.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MasonDreams
(756 posts)Where's Howard Dean? I liked him. Gen. Wesley Clark? Opra can run a big operation. I'd vote for Tom Hanks or Jimmy Kimmel at this point.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
PatSeg
(47,563 posts)He was really good at his job!
Hey, who wouldn't vote for Tom Hanks???
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
lapucelle
(18,305 posts)Bloomberg's activism is other-centered, rather than self-centered.
https://everytown.org/who-we-are/
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
totodeinhere
(13,058 posts)to be and that includes Bernie if he gets the nomination. But the way this race is going I am afraid that there might be hard feelings on the part of supporters of some losing candidates no mater who wins the nomination.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
redstatebluegirl
(12,265 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DanieRains
(4,619 posts)Right?
Pay your taxes so the wealthy don't have to.
http://content.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1891335_1891333_1891317,00.html
It's ok.
I will stay and fight for a better future for mankind.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
DanieRains
(4,619 posts)Here is the quote.
Leona Helmsley will always be remembered for one of the most arrogant statements ever uttered: "We don't pay taxes. Only the little people pay taxes." A touching sentiment from the New York hotel tycoon widely dubbed the "Queen of Mean" but not one shared by a jury of her peers. In 1989 Helmsley received 16 years in prison for a wide variety of tax offenses resulting in several million dollars owed. And in a fitting bit of chronology, the judge ordered her prison sentence to start on April 15 Tax Day!
Good thing she wasn't from the hood.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
nobuddy
(215 posts)Bloomberg got this
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
wnylib
(21,562 posts)Sanders vs Bloomberg = passport.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
democratisphere
(17,235 posts)It will insure republican rule for 4 more years.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
apcalc
(4,465 posts)One reason I support Amy, and other Dems too.
These old men who yell and are angry...nope, not for me.
We have one in office now....no more.
Change the tone, ..disagree, but listen.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,634 posts)Otherwise, we nominate Sanders which would be disastrous in the general. Amy, Buttigieg, Biden and now Bloomberg are splitting the vote...we need a clean convention where we nominate someone who can win.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
yaesu
(8,020 posts)just before the last recession. He pushed for & voter for the 2005 Bankruptcy bill. I'm just not sure he has we the peoples best interests in mind.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,634 posts)and my sis in law...it was simple. And my sis got a chapter 7 despite a six figure income. The only change needed is to put student loans back into bankruptcy...right now it is very tough. Basically there are now some income restrictions which one can get around, you keep your cars and home...sis kept two homes...and you take two cheap courses. That's it folks. Warren's plan where a person must surrender his/her property for a chapter 7 would be harsher than what we have now.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cartoonist
(7,320 posts)Go ahead, dump on me. I can't support him for that vote and lack of apology since. I want an honest person as president.
I live in CA. If my vote is needed to keep CA blue, then Trump already won.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
JustAnotherGen
(31,856 posts)Coming back to bite him in the GE. Even in the early 90's. Not a Catholic - but went to a Catholic High School and University. Remember the nuns . . .
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
apcalc
(4,465 posts)Nuts to that.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
dware
(12,423 posts)won't hammer Bernie 24/7 with ads showing him praising Castro? Praising Communism?
Praising Central American dictators?
You can say nuts to that all you want, but it will cause us to have another 4 years of the Mango Menace and the loss of the House and no chance to retake the Senate.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
apcalc
(4,465 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
dware
(12,423 posts)but, then again, what's fair about Trump?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
apcalc
(4,465 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
JustAnotherGen
(31,856 posts)They are going to use the three S formula.
Also - very good friends (40 years - since we were little kids and they arrived in the USA) with two Nicaraguan men whose maternal grandparents were murdered, and they fled to the USA soon after. I've known Moises and Danny since grade school, they both attended my father's funeral from out of state -
And I'm on their side. Not some career politicians. They don't like Sanders. They just don't.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
hurple
(1,306 posts)But, I have seen a small portion of the oppo documents the R's have in case of a Sanders candidacy.
They are devastating.
I seriously doubt Sanders could win with what they plan to run against him.
Would love to be wrong, though.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
DanieRains
(4,619 posts)Bernie could never get elected.....
And healthcare for all.
Craaaaazy.
And for half price.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Squinch
(50,990 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
David__77
(23,468 posts)...
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Botany
(70,559 posts)n/t
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
dalton99a
(81,566 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
rocktivity
(44,577 posts)Because if so, it's the Dems who have the problem -- what is it that they're not supplying to voters aside from not being Trump?
As Jon Stewart once said to Tom Vilsack, "THAT'S your strategy -- 'We're not going to suck QUITE as much?'"
rocktivity
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
KPN
(15,649 posts)the nomination in May. If neither, then I may consider one of our other candidates (most likely Klobuchar) but only then. Personally, I have more faith in a Sanders candidacy winning the White House than any of our candidates.
I've read and researched enough to be comfortable with their proposals which many here cast as pie-in-the-sky or lacking sufficient details regarding funding. There are sufficient details in my opinion and it's time the wealthiest nation in the world actually works for the majority of the people in that nation. Getting there through the election process is the only viable means.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Kerrycrat
(159 posts)Id like to hear more. I like that you arent just saying no, but saying why. Its good to think on and good for having discussions with Sanders folk. If nothing else I can challenge them to think and answer these concerns.
Hopefully without hostility. The most I get some days is nice try like all I was trying to do was take him down. So defensive.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Movbez4
(34 posts)Unfortunately, I agree with you! Sanders would be the Jeremy Corbin of the USA if he is the nominee. Sanders has been in the Senate for 16 years, and really has failed to pass almost any meaningful bills that he has written. His backers are alienating people that might per chance vote for him in a General Election with their hostile attacks on the rest of the DEM field, they should instead be putting this anger towards Trump.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
grantcart
(53,061 posts)It's not that We didn't try it once before.
This is why we got super delegates.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
at140
(6,110 posts)you wish to deny him nomination at the convention using super delegates?
How did that turn out in 2016?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
grantcart
(53,061 posts)Plurality means nothing
He has to get 51%
Last time he got 44% and this time he is running at about half that. We should all line up behind the guy who lost to the person who lost (*) to Trump.
Sanders, who had a 4 year lead against everyone else and a huge war chest is not going to get the nomination, he will again pout and cry about the unfairness except he started with a huge advantage.
He won't have a majority of the delegates on the first ballot. Super delegates were created after McGovern.
Why us it that Superdelegates who include all the elected colleagues that know him better than you do refused to support him but would be delighted for anyone else including Warren?
Because they know him better than you do.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Turin_C3PO
(14,022 posts)If Bernie comes in with the most delegates and is denied the nomination, our party would split and there would be a complete revolt from the Left. And, ultimately, well lose to Trump. Badly.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
grantcart
(53,061 posts)If you a plurality and cannot secure 51% then you don't have the skills needed to win the GE or run the country.
Assembling a working majority is a basic skill for winning the election and governing.
No one is denying anyone anything. Get to 51% or get defeated, this is not checkers, this brutal political competition to get the most potent powerful political position in the world.
Sanders won't get it.
He will insulate that corrupt politicians took it from him because he is the only pure one. He will validate various economic nationalist positions that he shares with Trump.
We will get 4 more years of despotism.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MrsCoffee
(5,803 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
progressoid
(49,992 posts)A personality.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
grantcart
(53,061 posts)He will be demolished in the first 48 hours.
Sanders personality? Beyond toxic. An embittered man that is 100% doom and gloom. This is a man who had virtually no colleague support 4 years ago.
But you want to know how much he is personally disliked? All these decades and he hasn't gotten a single piece of major legislation passed.
Now compare that to relatively new comer Senator Warren who is responsible for Consumer Finance Bureau.
Sanders had a 4 year head start and is running at about half what he did last time around
McGovern was well liked and a veteran.
But I will give your Sanders 10 states, up from McGovern's 1.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
mntleo2
(2,535 posts)...What surprised me was my friend, who is pretty conservative and spent his career as a wonk in the city, state as well as for our electric company in OR. most generally do not get excited when the "opposite" wins. He has no opposition, he votes for whomever he believes is closest to his academic philosophy. He used to teach graduate school at uni for Marxist Economics.
He has a Doctorate in Political Science. We don't talk politics much but that is another story. Just say we are very close. He said he was going to vote in our primary for Bernie Sanders! Stunned I asked why and he said the most important thing he liked about him was that Bernie did not get disturbed with the cruel and sometimes assinine Trump tweets as well as the cruelty of everyone else. He also said Bernie has made the same stances for over 40 years and this is a sign of someone who will stick to his purpose no matter what Trump and his goonies do(my name for them, not his).
I will vote for Bernie too. I did delegate for him in the last election cycle. When HRC made the nomination I voted for her as a good Democrat does. I was sad when others were so hateful when our entire state went for Bernie, except for our "super delegates" who ignored and defied the democratic majority. It did cause some cracks in our majority of both sides of the Democratic Party that is still healing. I hope they will go for the majority this time, but most of them are corporate Dems.
I think my dear friend has some major points. While I was far ahead of him in my choice, but I do heed his insight as his knowledge of politics is profoundly deep. I think he can take Trump on and furthermore while I have little hope his stances will go very far with corporate Dems as well as Republicans in both houses, I am in hopes, as he has done in the past, his ideas will take hold within our population.
Hope this helps ...
Love, Cat in Seattle
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
blakstoneranger
(333 posts)Much of bernie's agenda will be tempered by congress and senate. I CAN TAKE BERNIE FOR 4 YEARS---I CANNOT TAKE TRUMP.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
gab13by13
(21,385 posts)We ran a moderate in 2016 and Trump won, anyone else but me see deja vu?
The polls that I see shows Bernie beating Trump. Where oh where are people coming up with Bernie losing? I thought we were supposed to be positive here and not divisive. I believe we will win with any one of our candidates. I'm not a doom and gloomer.
Moderates should relax former Republican Bloomberg is here to rescue us.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Kerrycrat
(159 posts)It was that she was Hillary.
It depends on the moderate. For me, Biden and Bloomberg are meh. Pete in the other hand...
In other words its not as simple as you are saying.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MrsCoffee
(5,803 posts)And it took treason to keep her from office.
But, yeah, it was because she was Hillary.
Whatevs.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
lapucelle
(18,305 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cha
(297,503 posts)got 66 Million Votes! But the ******* Russians and other assorted Liars took her down. Like fucking jill stein's LIES and ssarandon who fed lies to the fans that "Hillary was more dangerous than trump".
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
dware
(12,423 posts)There's no RW talking points here, there's robust debate.
Why is it that when someone disagree with the debate, they trot out that tired old RW talking points meme?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
lapucelle
(18,305 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ProfessorPlum
(11,267 posts)increasing social security taxes?
His payment method is raising income taxes on the rich, among some other things, including a transaction tax on Wall Street and a small wealth tax on the obscenely rich.
Google the term "Amendment King" to find out about Sanders' legislative accomplishments.
Do some reading. go to his website. You might as well start getting used to the idea of him as the nominee. You may even learn something despite your "concerns".
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Submariner
(12,506 posts)Does anyone seriously believe the country is going to vote a sick man as president? That would guarantee 4 more years of hell under Trump.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
gordianot
(15,242 posts)Totally unpredictable. Stints are wonderful, there is no cure.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
mntleo2
(2,535 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
rzemanfl
(29,567 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
krakfiend
(202 posts)reagan had alzheimer. mccain had cancer, fdr was in a wheel chair, trump is morbidly obese. i'm sure other president's have also had heart problems. seems like you are just picking an excuse not to elect him. hillary had a small fainting spell, did you vote for her?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Scotch-Irish
(464 posts)I'll vote for whomever the majority of democrats choose as our candidate.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Perseus
(4,341 posts)Just like your opinion about Sanders.
A lot of people happen to think quite opposite of what you say.
Can we stop this now please? So many people always blaming the Sanders supporters about this and that, and they may be right, but every time I see a post like this in DU, an anti-Sanders post, it is from a Biden supporter.
Can we please stop it? If anyone has read anything I have posted before they may be tired of this but, IT IS NOT GOING TO PLAY WELL FOR DEMOCRATS IF WE CONTINUE THIS BASHING OF OUR OWN CANDIDATES.
Why is it so hard for so many people to understand that ANY OF THE DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATES ARE 1000 TIMES BETTER THAN TRUMP?
When will they learn that by bashing other candidates you are not going to make any converts to your candidate, on the contrary, you are just creating enemies.
PLEASE STOP!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Gothmog
(145,486 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
aeromanKC
(3,326 posts)There is no way we win the Senate with Bernie on the ticket. The ones we need to win back the Senate in the swing and red states AZ, NC, KY, IA, MI, CO, KS, ME (Independents and sane GOP) will vote to get rid of Trump, but will then vote to stop a Socialist by keeping McConnell as their firewall to his policies.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
rickyhall
(4,889 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
progressoid
(49,992 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
peoli
(3,111 posts)There is nobody further ahead on climate change than Bernie Sanders
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
progressoid
(49,992 posts)too much, too fast.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Kerrycrat
(159 posts)If Bernie gets the nomination an doesnt do as well as his supporters thought he would, it will somehow not be his fault. They will blame it on the party, the media, someone other than Bernie.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Fiendish Thingy
(15,650 posts)64 sexual harassment lawsuits!?!?
Voter turnout would likely be at record lows if Bloomberg is the nominee.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
SoFlaDem
(98 posts)If we elect a man who has paid Instagram influencers to endorse him and who had gained his popularity through slick ads rather than substance. We are supposed to be the party of the people, not the party for sale to the highest bidder. I cannot imagine this man truly has a any interest in the average laborer of struggling millennial.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
HopeAgain
(4,407 posts)He has made some very arguably racist comments and has a questionable civil rights record during his time as mayor of New York City. He locked up thousands of protesters during the 2004 Republican National Convention (where he gave a speech warmly endorsing George W. Bush, and thanked him for starting the war in Iraq), and a judge held the city in contempt for violating due process law. He created what amounted to a police state for New York Muslims, subjecting the entire community to dragnet surveillance and harassment, and filling mosques with spies and agent provocateurs. The city had to pay millions in settlements for violating Muslims' civil rights.
I'm not sure who and what he stands for other than being anti-Sanders and anti-Trump.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
peoli
(3,111 posts)Bernie is far ahead of any democratic candidate ever. Obviously you are not really paying attention
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
HopeAgain
(4,407 posts)in the way of not threatening the fossil fuel industry...
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
xocet
(3,871 posts)It is great to have conjectures as opinions, but to claim said opinions as facts without substantiation would be disingenuous at best.
Please respond with specific excerpts and the specific links that will substantiate your claim, for it is your burden of proof. Beyond that, please inform the rest of "us" who exactly "us" would be. If your claim is that there would be a tax increase of some form, please specify what groups would be paying that increase and substantiate that as well.
As one knows, there is a long way from currently stated goals to legislation. It would seem doubtful that any provided discussion at this point would actually faithfully represent the outcome of eventual legislation anyway. Goals would seem to be the only addressable topics at this point.
With that being considered, are you against the goals that Sanders has outlined? If so, please specify what you are against.
If you cannot do any of the above or are unwilling to do so, does that mean that you know what you are talking about and are being forthright?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
wallyworld2
(375 posts)If Bernie Sanders wins the Democratic primary
I am voting for him
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
redstatebluegirl
(12,265 posts)This year I am voting based on getting rid of Trump. I may not live long enough to see a woman, i sure hope so, but I have to see this orange turd removed from the white house and see it fumigated with a Democrat, any Democrat.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Karma13612
(4,554 posts)Just curious.
I think they are Presidential material.
And would run circles around tRump
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
redstatebluegirl
(12,265 posts)Amy is my second choice at this moment. After working so hard for Hillary and seeing how many people I thought would support her, Democrats, who didn't and then admitted it was because, in their opinion, she could not win, I see what women are up against. This year is more important than any election in my life and I'm almost 65.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Karma13612
(4,554 posts)Based on the Overton window.
The things she is proposing are popular with the majority of Americans.
Republicans have been pulling the country to the right for years. Look where it has gotten us.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
duforsure
(11,885 posts)For anyone , and plan on voting for whoever the Democrat candidate turns out to be. Trump is to dangerous to us all to become petty over who Democrats choose, including Bernie Sanders. That's not acceptable letting a Putin puppet destroy our country for Putin. I'd rather vote the orange idiot out no matter who gets the nomination, and can't imagine how destructive trump could get with more votes to win. We just think he's bad now. He's capable of much worse, and that's pretty bad.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Raster
(20,998 posts)...If our party's nominee is a Ham Sandwich, then I will vote for the Ham Sandwich. Period. Every Democrat, every conscientious American should be voting the same. No purity tests. No animosity hangovers from 2016. None. No. Non.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LudwigPastorius
(9,164 posts)Congress still writes the law, and barring the election of a couple of hundred Democratic Socialist Congressmen, laws that follow through on Bernie's proposals won't happen.
It's hard to say whether his election would even move policy in this country to the left at all. It seems just as likely that there'd be an attempt by the GOP to drag things further to the right, just because of their fear of "SOSHULIST!".
All of this is not to say that we should throw up our hands and give up, but given how far down the primrose path to hell Republicans have moved us over the past 40 years, there's nothing wrong with concentrating on winning the small battles we can. (see Obama's 8 years)
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
AverageJoe
(2,292 posts)Just as he did in 2016. I see no reason to believe those polls are wrong.
That said, I will enthusiastically support our candidate, no matter who it is.
Heres the thing to remember: If WE All get out there and vote for the nominee, we will win, no matter if its Sanders or Biden or anyone in between.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
krakfiend
(202 posts)just for the record, he is not my first choice, or second. i do feel that you are hating on him for very vague reasons. you think his speech is vague, that he will raise social security taxes by 33%. i have heard he will increase the taxes on the 1%. he wants to model the u.s. like the nordic countries. i don't know how he will pay for m4a. i do believe he has touched on climate change. another senator has pointed out that bernie sometimes does not add his name to a bill if he thinks others will not vote for it if his name is on it. saying he wants something is different from actually getting it. bernie will have to appease both houses and both political parties to get want he wants. he is optimistic, he really cares for civic rights and the environment. he might not be the greatest, but he is far from a disaster. if he is the nominee, i will gladly vote for him.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
R B Garr
(16,973 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(145,486 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(145,486 posts)This intrigues me. I have seen a ton of the oppo on sanders but would love to see more https://politicalwire.com/2020/02/18/bloomberg-campaign-hints-at-damaging-sanders-info/
It is very damaging, perhaps even disqualifying.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(145,486 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Vivienne235729
(3,384 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Progressive dog
(6,917 posts)money for infrastructure under Bernie's plans. He imagines that somehow making health care free will decrease the real cost, as if doctors, nurses, hospital staff, drug researchers, laboratory workers, etc. will gladly work more hours and take a cut in pay, because that is what his plan demands.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cha
(297,503 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Beringia
(4,316 posts)Unbelievable.
He is the best person to address climate change according to The Center for Biological Diversity along with Tom Steyer and Elizabeth Warren.
Elizabeth Warren and Bernie both have the same records of passing no serious bills in congress, but you never see people post this about Warren.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
dware
(12,423 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
evertonfc
(1,713 posts)but he will.sink our Senate chances and cost us House seats too. He isn't a Democrat. We deserve better
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
J_William_Ryan
(1,756 posts)Sanders would make an excellent president and I would gladly vote for him for president and enthusiastically campaign for him.
But his candidacy would indeed be a disaster.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
TheSocialDem
(191 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
dware
(12,423 posts)Buckle up and be prepared for another 4 years of the Mango Menace if Bernie becomes our nominee.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
TheSocialDem
(191 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
dware
(12,423 posts)He will get hammered in the GE and he'll take down ballot Democrats with him, we'll almost certainly lose the House and no chance to retake the Senate.
And even if by some miracle he did win the Presidency, what could he get enacted into law?
You think we'll win back the Senate?
The chances of that are slim to none,...
..and slim has already left the train station.
Without a Democratic Senate, nothing will get passed, thereby negating anything he promised.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to Peacetrain (Original post)
Post removed
wundermaus
(1,673 posts)I haven't had as much hope for our country since 1968.
Bernie's presidency could be a pivotal event in our nations history.
Not since FDR have we had such a progressive and citizen oriented candidate.
There is a change possible with Bernie that has been completely absent in the last 40+ years.
The republicans have removed their masks and there is no mistaking them for what they are - traitors.
We have a war on our hands.
The only way we are going to win this is to mobilize the population.
Money is not going to win this, people will win this.
Bernie is a populist. Bernie is responding to the needs of the working people, not the wealthy.
Please stop trying to divide the Democratic party, and get your heads screwed on straight.
Bernie is running as a democrat. Start treating him like a democrat. Cut the socialist boogieman crap.
Bernie is going to make a wonderful President, better than we can imagine.
So embrace him up as he embraces you as a brother and together we may yet save our nation.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
MrsCoffee
(5,803 posts)Bernie is the divider. He has spent the last several years trashing and dividing the Democratic Party. It is his whole strategy to get to the White House.
Dont piss on my leg and then tell me its just raining.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
wundermaus
(1,673 posts)Thanks for the big laugh, MrsCoffee! You can not possibly be serious to make such a ridiculous comment.
Bernie is no more a divider of the Democratic Party than the man in the moon.
Turn that mirror around!
Look at the support of Bernie Sanders by any metric you prefer - he is pulling in voters from all areas of our society.
He is the very essence of a uniter, not a divider! His policies are solutions to problems we face as a nation, not excuses.
I would really like to know where you get your information to make such a patently false statement about Bernie.
Here is just a sampling of some of my information sources of information:
https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show
https://reddit.com/r/politics/
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPWXiRWZ29zrxPFIQT7eHSA (The Hill Rising)
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1yBKRuGpC1tSM73A0ZjYjQ (The Young Turks)
https://crooksandliars.com
https://thehill.com
https://www.rawstory.com
https://www.democracynow.org
And Don't Bother with ad hominem replies, this aint' my first rodeo.
(If you are not civil - you and your ilk will be blocked)
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
MrsCoffee
(5,803 posts)Ouch.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
wundermaus
(1,673 posts)Just being up front with you based on my previous experiences in this political discussion forum.
Given my cumulative experience in several political discussion forums for the last 20 years (has it really been 20 years since the 2000 Bush sElection coup!? My hat tips to Common Ground Common Sense) and the fact that I am a senior citizen now, my patience has run out for fiction based arguments and comments. So if you or anyone else want to legitimately bring up Bernie's political defects, then bring 'em on. But like you (and Judge Judy) said - Don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining.
All the candidates have chinks in their armor and i think it is constructive to call them out on those deficiencies, but please, Do Not parrot what the current popular barking points are and expect to impress me or anyone else.
As I write this to you (16:00 Feb.22) Bernie is currently at 55% https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/484103-2020-nevada-caucus-results . Joe Biden is second place at 17%. Can we at least agree on the math?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
DIVINEprividence
(443 posts)and plasters this all over the airwaves and pounds Sanders like a drum. I personally dont hold this against Bernie and I accept his explanation. The GOP and a large part of the electorate wont. This in and of itself makes Bernie unelectable even before getting into the socialist thing.
https://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/05/29/410606045/the-bernie-sanders-rape-fantasy-essay-explained
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
RandySF
(59,136 posts)MI-SEN: Peters
CA-10: Harder
CA-21: Cox
CA-22: Vacant
CA-39: Cisneros
CA-45: Porter
CA-48: Rouda
FL-07: Murphy
GA-06: McBath
IL-06: Casten
IL-14: Underwood
IA-02: Open
IA-03: Axne
KS-03: Davids
ME-02: Golden
MI-08: Slotkin
MI-11: Stevens
MN-03: Phillips
MN-07: Peterson
NV-04: Horsford
NJ-03: Kim
NJ-05: Gotthemier
NJ-11: Sherill
NM-02: Torres-Small
NY-01: Rose
NY-11: Delgado
NY-22: Brindisi
OK-01: Horn
PA-06: Houlahan
PA-17: Lamb
SC-01: Cunningham
TX-07: Fletcher
TX-32: Alred
UT-04: McAdams
VA-02: Luria
VA-07: Spanberger
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Stuart G
(38,439 posts)but true. Bernie would make a terrible "nominee." Somehow and someway he would create a disaster for our party. Of course, some people don't see it and deny it, but it is there. If he were our nominee, I think the issue would be "Bernie" and not the ideas that he stands for like "universal health care."
..Trump and the money behind Trump will do that and as Bernie responds the disaster will occur. Yes, I would vote for Bernie, but the powers behind Trump will create that "disaster" and if Bernie responds in a "flawed" way, we will lose all chances to advance our agenda. We will lose seats in the House and Senate as well as governorships and state houses.
...If Bernie is our nominee, he will have 3 & 1/2 months to show that. That 3 1/2 months is more than enough to destroy our chances to win. I don't know how he will do it, but he or someone in his campaign will. Then Bernie's response will destroy him. This scenario is truly ugly, but I believe it is true and will occur.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MarianJack
(10,237 posts)A Bernie Sanders nomination would result in a coast to coast landslide loss that would make 1972 look like 1960. He lacks the self discipline, stamina and just plain old smarts to ever prevail in the inevitable and intensively negative campaign that will be coming from Dolt45.
He has Goldwater/McGovern/Mondale/Dukakis written all over him and this election is too important for that.
That's my two cents, and quite possibly overpriced at that.
RESIST!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DIVINEprividence
(443 posts)I might I add Klobuchar is a class act
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MarianJack
(10,237 posts)I believe very strongly that there needs to be a woman on the ticket this year. Maybe if our VP nominee is Mrs. Butterworth Pence will refuse to debate her on the same stage.
RESIST!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
gembaby1
(253 posts)Just bitches, offers pie in the sky, and no real details of how this going to get done. Now I have no problem with free healthcare. Im Canadian for Christ sake! Im just saying the man is no Tommy Douglas. At least he was able to prove it could be done by running his own province (Saskatchewan) successfully with it before he went to Ottawa as leader of the NDP. This Bernie guy has nothing tangible to offer. Seem to be all hat and no cattle, as they say.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
duforsure
(11,885 posts)Improving health care with MFA means reductions in our costs, like Bernie states, a lot less costs for us and employers after they see a financial benefit from it. Any candidate running in our party is better, will unite instead of divide people, and go after corruption now wide spreading under trump and the GOP. Trump and the GOP are an ongoing disaster to our Democracy. People who refuse to vote keeping trump and the GOP are the ones that could spell disaster for this country, not any Democrats running.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Chicago1980
(1,968 posts)They're not helpful.
As long as you vote for the nominee in November...
As long as you vote down ballot and help that nominee with a democratic house/senate.
It doesn't matter who the goddamn nominee is if they don't have a congress to back them up!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
polichick
(37,152 posts)of, by and for the people looks like.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
colsohlibgal
(5,275 posts)If people prefer Trump to Sanders were doomed.
Now I think Bernie, Biden, and Bloomberg are too old. But I would crawl through glass to vote for any of them. Were running against a Mob Boss, no time for hurt feelings. I do hope if any of the three win the nomination they pick a much younger running mate.
I line up with the progressive wing of the party and my thought is something is wrong when a small percentage of us have more money than the bottom 98% or something like that.
Democratic socialism is not Communism it is basically how Scandinavia runs. It is the principle behind Medicare. Once again Eisenhower operated a bit that way, the top tax rate was 91 or 92% every year he was President.....and he was a Republican.
Again if Biden or Bloomberg win the nod both are off the chart preferable to the Evil Idiot now in the White House.
My thought is we need more positive campaigning and we need to realize the real enemy is the Creep playing President now.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
gembaby1
(253 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Maribelle
(4,783 posts)In fact it seems to me to be the most important debate in the primaries ever.
I will pay close attention.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
musicman65
(524 posts)see him taking the south,it all seems odd that he is ahead in the poles
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LakeArenal
(28,835 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
mikeysnot
(4,757 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided