Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumExperts Call BS on Bernie's Russian Bot Theory
Last edited Fri Feb 21, 2020, 11:24 AM - Edit history (1)
Ben Nimmo, director of investigations at the disinformation-tracking firm Graphika, told The Daily Beast that, after 2016, Russian trolls have tried harder to stay undetected, making finding them a tricky process.
Actually proving that a particular account is run from Russia means crossing a high evidence bar. There are far more accusations of Russian trolls or Russian bots going around than there are actual known Russian assets that have been taken down.
Oftentimes, Russian covert operations on social media act as echo chambers for the issues and priorities of overt Russian propaganda outlets like Sputnik and RT. Jessica Brandt, director of research at the Alliance for Securing Democracy, which tracks Russian state news trends and disinformation, said Russian outlets havent made much of the Nevada union feud.
Weve seen no evidence of that, she told The Daily Beast, adding that the Alliances dashboard for tracking overt Russian propaganda turned up only one story on the Nevada issue.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/experts-call-bs-on-bernies-russian-bot-theory
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
bucolic_frolic
(43,364 posts)They need to look elsewhere, such as polls. There are far too many of them, too many newbies, methodology not overly transparent. Polls can influence public opinion by biased questions or methods, then voters see results and the bandwagon effect is in gear. But I suspect the culinary union issue is a distraction from activity elsewhere.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)that perhaps also supports one's own goals.
Especially since his supporters have a history of harassing his opponents...
Bernie Sanders Politely Asks Supporters Not to Harass His Opponents
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
bucolic_frolic
(43,364 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cha
(297,809 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
UniteFightBack
(8,231 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Fran2020
(40 posts)from briefing the house. Russia will to anything to re-elect Trump, and Trump will help them. We need to be on guard!
Russia is trying to get the Democrats to fight with each other and Russia is trying to make Democrats look bad.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)as Sanders supporters, and not actually Sanders supporters who are doing the online harassing?
Daily Beast isn't the only who investigated these claims:
"We have seen no evidence in open sources during this election cycle that an online community of Sanders supporters, known as Bernie bros, were catalyzed by what Sanders suggested could be Russian interference, " said Graham Brookie, director of the Digital Forensic Research Lab at the Atlantic Council, which tracks disinformation on social media sites.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=550400
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Fran2020
(40 posts)Under Trump, they're just letting Russia run rampant and not investigating or trying to stop them. So we don't know if Russia is responsible for any of these things. After we win in 2020 we need a REAL in-depth investigation into the FULL extent of Russian interference, with CONSEQUENCES for any Americans who helped them. Mueller is a Republican, and Trump obstructed the investigation totally. What Mueller found was just the start.
We need real answers and real accountability.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)We had evidence of Russian bots on FB and Twitter during the General who were pushing for Sanders. That evidence is not there for the harassment of the Union.
Tell me, what other candidate felt a need to tell their supporters not to harass his opponents during this campaign?
Bernie Sanders Politely Asks Supporters Not to Harass His Opponents
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Fran2020
(40 posts)Twitter said they couldn't determine, private companies and experts can investigate, but they are up against a CRIMINAL organization that is backed by a NATION Russia. This is Russia's version of the NSA.
We won't have real answers until OUR intelligence services, NSA, CIA, FBI, all fight back. DRUMPH is stopping that because he knows he can't win without Russian help.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/20/us/politics/russian-interference-trump-democrats.html
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Weve seen no evidence of that, she told The Daily Beast, adding that the Alliances dashboard for tracking overt Russian propaganda turned up only one story on the Nevada issue.
IF Russia thought that the CU's criticism of Sanders would help Trump, they would have been PUSHING the story... But they are not.
From the article linked from the OP:
And why would Russia try to tank Sanders's campaign by making his supporters look bad, and by extension, Sanders, so much that Sanders is trying to say it's not his supporters?
As has been shown, the GOP wants Sanders as the Democratic Nominee, because they believe Trump can beat him, so Russian efforts to smear Sanders would be contrary to the GOP's goals in re-electing Trump...
There is FAR more evidence that points to Sanders supporters being behind the harassment.
Bernie Sanders Politely Asks Supporters Not to Harass His Opponents
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
UniteFightBack
(8,231 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)look bad, as this harassment does - so much that he's trying to claim that it's not his supporters?
It's been shown that he's the number one choice of the GOP as an opponent to Trump, so it makes no sense that Russia would be trying to tank Sanders, because it would run counter to the GOP efforts to re-elect Trump.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
UniteFightBack
(8,231 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)since Sanders is the one that they think Trump can beat, and the intelligence report says that Russia wants Trump re-elected.
If Russia thought that the CU's criticism of Sanders would help Trump, then they would be pushing it.
But they are pretty much silent on it in the usual propaganda channels.
There is far, far more evidence that this is the work of Sanders supporters doing what they have before...which Sanders even had to admit it's happened before.
Bernie Sanders Politely Asks Supporters Not to Harass His Opponents
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Fiendish Thingy
(15,686 posts)As well as general election in November.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)See the OP.
There are Sanders supporters doing this, and Bernie is trying to avoid saying so, even though he was the only candidate who had to tell his supporters to "be respectful" at the beginning of the 2020 campaign...
Bernie Sanders Politely Asks Supporters Not to Harass His Opponents
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Meadowoak
(5,563 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)behind the Union harassment.
Until there is evidence, it's just an accusation, and appears to serve the purpose of allowing Sanders to defend his supporters.
As for evidence that goes to showing that it was his supporters, what other candidate felt a need to tell their supporters not to harass his opponents during this campaign?
Bernie Sanders Politely Asks Supporters Not to Harass His Opponents
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Fiendish Thingy
(15,686 posts)Unless these harassers get doxed, well never know for sure.
The Russians want the same kind of discord among Dems as in 2016, and having Sanders supporters harass others in one way to get it.
We dont live in a black and white world, and need to consider and prepare for all possibilities.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)among the harassers of the Union. There are ways to determine where emails tweets and FB page posts are originating from, and that's how we know they were behind much information concerning HRC on Sanders FB pages.
https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/bernie-sanders-hillary-clinton-social-media-russian-infiltration-campaign/165333/
https://www.vox.com/2018/2/16/17021048/robert-mueller-russia-facebook-social-media-donald-trump-presidential-campaign-2016-hillary-clinton
There is however evidence that points to Sanders supporters having a tendency to harass...
Again...
Bernie Sanders Politely Asks Supporters Not to Harass His Opponents
You would not know that listening to Senator Sanders, or many of his supporters, except when evidence doesn't back up what he pronounces to be true.
I'll listen to the experts over the politician who has much to lose by agreeing with them.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Fiendish Thingy
(15,686 posts)Harassing Bernie supporters, if proven, should be held accountable. In this day and age, it shouldnt be too difficult to dox a harasser, if an expert wanted to.
Bots are automated programs, not real people; Russia used scores, if not hundreds, of paid operatives, real people, in addition to bots, to sow discord and spread disinformation in 2016, and theyre doing it again right now.
This cycle, voters must be alert to efforts to manipulate their emotions with convincing incidents instigated by real people, not bots.
Im going to focus on what the actual candidates do and say.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)So yes, this is about a politician denied, and how factual or informed it is.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Fiendish Thingy
(15,686 posts)Whose interests are served by becoming immersed in these offensive acts?
Anyone making threats should be prosecuted wherever possible- if the Meuller team could identify the individuals working for IRA and Cambridge Analytica, Im sure there are law enforcement agencies that could do the same for the union harassers.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)You stated that they should be investigated....
"There are people out there who want to divide the progressive movement. I am the strongest, perhaps, lifetime supporter of unions in the United States Congress," Sanders said at a CNN presidential town hall. "The idea that anybody who works with me would make a vicious attack against a union leader just because we disagree on an issue is incomprehensible to me and you know what? I'm just not sure that that's true."
Interesting that he misrepresents what the union spox said, .. which was that his supporters were harassing them, but Sanders seems to be saying that his staff are the ones that the union spox was talking about...
https://www.culinaryunion226.org/news/press/statement-by-geoconda-arguello-kline-2020-02-12
Why do you think that he resorted to attacking a straw man in order to make a strong denial? Covering for a later revelation that it was his supporters, so his supporters could say, "well he said it was inconceivable that someone who "worked" for the campaign did this, not his supporters?"
There is no Mueller investigation or any investigation with the resources that Mueller had into the harassment of the union for criticizing his health care proposal.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Happy Hoosier
(7,425 posts)... if he would own this issue and address it directly.
But I suspect he secretly LOVES the Bros. They tap into his deep seated anger (much of it righteous) and his ever-hungry ego.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(145,667 posts)Normally going to a national convention is a once in a life time experience. I have worked really hard inside the party on campaigns and voter protection issues for a very long time to earn this trip. Too bad that sanders and his vetted delegates ruined that experience and did their best to help trump. A candidate has absolute approval rights over their pledged delegates because these delegates can change their votes and these delegates represent the candidate and campaign. I helped vet Clinton delegates and I know that I was vetted. The Clinton campaign told us that we represent her and that our actions would reflect on her and her campaign.
In contrast, sanders sent one very weak text the Sunday night before the convention and then did little or nothing to control his delegates. It was nasty I was there when the sanders delegates booed Congressman John Lewis. I was warned about this stunt 30 minutes before it happened by the Clinton campaign whip. According to my whip, sanders was asked to stop this event and declined. That incident will be used against sanders by Russia to suppress the African American vote just as was done in 2016
Link to tweet
Russia will just run material showing sanders delegates booing John Lewis, Elijah Cummings and others to suppress the vote of African American voters and I feel that this tactic would be very effective
I was at the Texas delegation breakfast when a group of sanders delegates marched in and demanded that we condemn Clinton and change our votes to sanders.
sanders spoke to the Texas delegation the next morning and his speech was again solely about himself. There was a mini-riot due to his delegates the prior morning and the only thing that sanders talked about was himself. sanders did nothing to deal with the fact that his delegates were out of control and did nothing to try to help Hillary Clinton win the general election.
Finally a group of sanders delegates yelled at my daughter and called her the c-Word because she would not try to get me to change my vote. Again sanders was asked to tell his delegates to behave during the convention and sanders refused
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden