Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumMy problem with Bernie's Castro comments.
Let me start off by saying 1) I don't particularly see Castro as more or less despicable than Putin. 2) I think most of the South Floridians who take offense at Bernie's comment were voting Trump anyway.
By creating a linkage with Castro - a super polarizing figure - Bernie essentially justifies someone like Bloomberg or Mark Cuban making an independent run to "save us from Trump and socialism." As a result, Trump will be reelected. Bernie needs to stick with student loan debt and medical care and not get into high concept political history.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
cherryinpa
(301 posts)Is Castro even a selling point for most Americans? No. But its definately a turn-off for many in certain states.
I sort of even get what Bernie is saying, but does it really need to be said.
Is this all politics? Yes, and politics is how you win this particular game.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
OliverQ
(3,363 posts)made the same comment in 2016?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
cherryinpa
(301 posts)Big difference in final year of office vs election year.
No?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
TwilightZone
(25,479 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(145,558 posts)Link to tweet
In 2016, Obama was addressing hundreds of young business and social entrepreneurs from across Latin America in Buenos Aires, Argentina. If you read the transcript of his talk, you see immediately that Obama, in his signature style, was reinforcing the message of pragmatism and evidence-based decision making as he puts it be[ing] practical and just choos[ing] from what works. He was in fact arguing against ideology, at a time when he must have been watching the destabilizing effects the surge in ideological politics was causing not just in the United States but in other countries long considered staid and practical.
In discussing Cuba, Obama relayed direct conversations he had with the Castros, insight into the diplomacy of highlighting policy areas where there might be more agreement in order to create common ground with space to push for change in other areas. I doubt many would think it rational to approach a nascent foreign relationship with a guns blazing, take no prisoners attitude, especially when any agreement depended on the other countrys support. Obama was relaying one relatively high stakes conversation with foreign leaders to another unaligned audience in a foreign venue. I expect it does not take an expert in international relations to see the U.S. interest in pitching this information a certain way for both of these audiences.
In contrast, Bernie Sanders 1985 interview was not conducted for foreign consumption or to support U.S. national interests, and it did not come at a time of opening up in the U.S.-Cuba relationship. Instead, it was given for a local public access TV show. It was effectively a vanity project giving Sanders a platform to expound his views of politics and the world. Because of this, the messaging here is all Sanders. Further contrasting Obama, it was rooted in ideology, with Sanders opening, As a socialist, the word socialism doesnt frighten me, before launching into his discussion of self-described socialist regimes. While you could argue the interview might not be a perfect snapshot of todays presidential candidates innermost thoughts, it was a clear statement of what Sanders believed at the time and unfiltered by the degree of drafting and review Obamas messaging on this topic would have undergone....
From this brief look, we can see that Obamas talk involved a little flattery, a little spin, and a good deal of appealing to an audience that he saw as future leaders. In contrast, Sanders words were simply praise without an intentional objective towards a defined audience. Conflating these two discussions is flimsy, misleading, and indicative of the pro-regime propaganda captured in Sanders own sentiment.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(145,558 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cha
(297,655 posts)President Obama was talking about the post 2014 strides that Cuba had made as part of the negotiated
pre-conditions for normalizing US-Cuba relations. Cuba had to meet benchmarks during the gradual process of moving towards normalization.
President Obama made the remarks at a joint press conference in Cuba in March 2016.
https://upload.democraticunderground.com/1287576570
Link to tweet
Link to tweet
Mahalo for the additional tweet, Goth!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DanTex
(20,709 posts)Bernie isn't going around campaigning about Castro. He was asked to clarify his comments, and he did, in pretty much the same words as Obama used to talk about Cuba and Castro. He criticized the authoritarianism, and praised the education system, just like Obama.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)Theres lots out there. Buckle up
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cha
(297,655 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
mr_lebowski
(33,643 posts)Without the warmth and general affable nature of Joe.
And they're often the sort that are going to 'stick'.
It's concerning, no doubt.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
HopeAgain
(4,407 posts)Being arrested in other countries...
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
mr_lebowski
(33,643 posts)Until the cows come home as well, so ... there's that.
The totality of situation is that I've been suggesting I fear we have 0 Democrats in the race presently who will beat Trump for about a year now.
I've seen nothing in that year to disabuse me of that fear.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Algernon Moncrieff
(5,790 posts)A lot can happen between now and November. It's 50/50 on the economy at this point, as near as I can figure.
I'm not sure I completely agree we don't have the right guy / gal, but I think all of them are running (to greater/lesser degrees) dumb campaigns right now. They all need to get sharper in their attacks and better about addressing voter needs/wants.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,711 posts)Compared to Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot Castro was a piker. The former were responsible for tens of millions of deaths. Castro's death toll is in the hundreds or thousands. That's not a point I'd like to make in a general election.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Algernon Moncrieff
(5,790 posts)...were driven more by Che Guevarra than by Fidel. Was Castro's Cuba worse than the Argentine junta of the mid 70s, or Stroessner's Paraguay, or Somoza? Nope.
That said, it's a topic I'd have deflected from as quickly as possible.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
womanofthehills
(8,764 posts)As far as dictators go, they were worse than Castro.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
booley
(3,855 posts)He did it so he could stay New York mayor. Bloomberg does what is best for Bloomberg and retroactively justifies it later.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
cannabis_flower
(3,765 posts)That Bernie has talked about Castro in the past and people are asking about it. And then he has to answer and he's taken out of context. So basically, he's damned if he answers and damned if he doesn't. At least he's authentic and doesn't lie. What would lying get him anyway. There's plenty of his writings and video.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Algernon Moncrieff
(5,790 posts)"Whats far more important are the comments you folks in media ignore that Donald Trump has made praisung the murderous, ex KGB thug Vladimir Putin."
Whenever he is asked about some dumbass comment he made about Fidel Castro, he should be reflexively turning the discussion to Trump/Putin/Muller Investigation/Impeachment. Just like Joe should be ripping Jarvanka any time he is asked about Hunter.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
TwilightZone
(25,479 posts)Not really true anymore. The community has been trending left and was about 55/45 in 2018.
https://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/politics/fl-ne-cuban-american-poll-20190131-story.html
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Algernon Moncrieff
(5,790 posts)I meant the stridently anti-communist 1st Gens (both 1st wave and Mariel). The 2nd/3rd/4th gens tend, in my experience, to favor normalization and ending the embargo.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Awsi Dooger
(14,565 posts)I could never talk politics to Hispanics until 2012. It was amazing how many Cubans supported Obama and now were seeing Democrats in a favorable light.
But all of that changes once you feed anything pro-Castro into a household. Often the Cuban homes will have 3 generations living under the same room, or if not together then nearby and extremely tight. The old wounds are opened up again.
There's a reason Annette Taddeo and other Democratic candidates around here don't want anything to do with Bernie Sanders atop the ticket. They know the math. Andrew Gillum was easily tagged a socialist 2 years ago. Now you've got self-proclaimed.
Every day I want to believe I am imagining this.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(145,558 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden