Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumprimary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Apollo Zeus
(251 posts)so of course she can't debate AOC.
Single payer is cheaper because every drug and procedure is negotiated downward in cost.
One of the downsides of ACA is that the limit on insurance companies profits is set as a percentage of gross so to raise their profits they raise the price of EVERYTHING. IOW 20% of $1 tril is more than 20% of $600 bil
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,337 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Apollo Zeus
(251 posts)If I had a dollar for every time someone asked "How will you pay for it?" I could afford a C-section in the US.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
kacekwl
(7,021 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
bucolic_frolic
(43,284 posts)Is the color saturation tweaked up on that video? AOC's lipstick is very red, and MM's eyeshadow a bit heavy. Maybe it's for the studio cameras.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
CaptYossarian
(6,448 posts)In a clinic waiting room a few years back, the TV was unfortunately on FOX News. President Obama was speaking and you'd think it was Samuel Jackson. They had enhanced his pigmentation to make him darker for their bigoted, "scared Trumpless" viewers.
As to the tax on Wall Street, you'll rarely get specifics in this kind of setting. The neocon (McCain, in this instance), finding themselves against the ropes, will interrupt quicker than you can say Chris Matthews. Then they'll pretend the lefties cannot communicate as well and nobody will ever get the whole truth.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
elleng
(131,107 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Beakybird
(3,333 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
zentrum
(9,865 posts)She's a born leader.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
marble falls
(57,204 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
warmfeet
(3,321 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
hangaleft
(649 posts)The bad news is that, at 70, its unlikely that Ill be around long enough to see AOCs ascendency to the presidency.
The good news is that, at 70, I wont have to live long under a fascist dictatorship if, dog forbid, Trump gets re-elected. (Hopefully it wont come to that, but Im scared shitless that its a very real possibility, especially with the hackable voting machines without a paper trail.)
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
zentrum
(9,865 posts)I think it could happen in 4 to 8 years for her.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
warmfeet
(3,321 posts)She will make a wonderful President.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join The Revolution!!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
CurtEastPoint
(18,663 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Raster
(20,998 posts)...<insert nasal whine>.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
irisblue
(33,023 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Raster
(20,998 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
irisblue
(33,023 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
a kennedy
(29,706 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
hangaleft
(649 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Kurt V.
(5,624 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
BeckyDem
(8,361 posts)Megan McCain is a privileged dope.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Evolve Dammit
(16,763 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
lapfog_1
(29,223 posts)"you take your premium and some of your health care costs right now that you give to a Blue Cross Blue Shield and Aetna whomever and you lower that number - the average American family pays about $10,000 dollars in health care costs - you lower that number and it transition over to a payroll tax and the average American gets to save tons more money"
Ok... just prior to this she says "do you know what percentage of Americans earn less that $40,000 a year? 60%.
So... lets see, if 60% make less than $40,000 but the Average American family pays $10,000 in health care costs... in addition to housing, food, taxes, gasoline, electricity, etc.
I'm not believing these numbers... there is no way someone making $40K a year is paying $10K of that in health care out of pocket.
So... where is that $10K payroll tax coming from to pay for the 60% who make less than $40K a year. It isn't coming from the 1%... that isn't going to happen.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Midnight Writer
(21,795 posts)The person earns less than 40,000.
The family spends 10,000. Families often have multiple earners. The 10,000 figure is also an average.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
lapfog_1
(29,223 posts)make at least $80K and possibly $120K as an average.
But I don't believe that number either.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Midnight Writer
(21,795 posts)If, for example, one spouse makes 15K and the other 36K, than each worker makes less than 40K as persons, but as a family they make 51K.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
lapfog_1
(29,223 posts)and how much this average family pays in out of pocket health care... and how much (on average) their employers pay... and how much (on average) their health care costs.
Don't throw around numbers like AOC did which are highly misleading.
Let's be accurate... and then explain what payroll tax is going to levied and who will pay more in payroll taxes and by how much.
At the end of the presentation the video producer started talking about 90% marginal tax rates. So I just want to know how much *I* am going to pay in taxes for all of these programs (tuition, health care, free child care, Green New Deal).
I mean I might be for it if someone gives me actual proposed spending, cuts in other government spending, and increased taxes on "the rich" (which might mean people like me, depending on what the proposals are).
Someone sit down and grind out all the numbers. Where the numbers aren't known, put in a range and create multiple possibilities and rate the probability of each one.
No, I am not asking you to do this, but there are some bright people working for Warren and Sanders... why can't they do it?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Midnight Writer
(21,795 posts)I honestly thought you were misunderstanding the story.
Next time, I'll just let it pass, OK?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Farmer-Rick
(10,207 posts)The median household income was $63,179 (+/- $420). It doesn't double when 2 incomes come into a family.
https://wallethacks-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/wallethacks.com/average-median-income-in-america/amp/?amp_js_v=a3&_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA%3D#Median-Income-for-Households-by-Age
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
lapfog_1
(29,223 posts)AOC implied that it was $40K... now it has been explained that this is the average wage of individuals in that lowest 60%... so the claim that the average family spends $10K on health care is possible because there are multiple earners in a family.
That's fine, I just want the actual numbers.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gore1FL
(21,151 posts)It wouldn't surprise me in the least if such families couldn't afford healthcare under the current situation. Isn't the whole point of this exercise is to make healthcare available to people who cannot pay that much?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
lapfog_1
(29,223 posts)as an asperation, this is good.
Now, what will it cost, and who will pay for it... That's always the rub.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gore1FL
(21,151 posts)Ultimately we pay for this anyway. We may as well do it in as organized and inexpensively as possible. Healthcare, education, infrastructure, and technology investments are gold.
The biggest problem that we have to contend we, from my view, is the cost of undoing the damage of 40 years of Reaganomics. Each day we put it off the price tag for the middle class goes up.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Farmer-Rick
(10,207 posts)Make the oil Corporation pay their drilling fees.
Stop giving $100 million farms subsidies.
Do anything except funnel more of our national wealth to the filthy rich.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
HootieMcBoob
(3,823 posts)If you're lucky enough to have coverage through where you work.
My family's total insurance cost annually is somewhere in the neighborhood of $35,000.
You heard that right...$35,000!
it's mostly covered by my spouse's company and about $250 per pay period comes out of her check so it doesn't feel like we're paying that much. But under a single payer a big hunk of that $35,000 could go to wages or some other benefit.
That's the cost for a family of three by the way.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
HootieMcBoob
(3,823 posts)we also pay co-pays and for prescriptions and other out of pocket costs.
This system is the worst.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Azathoth
(4,611 posts)by the insane costs of treatment. All you need are a few sick people to pull the average higher.
She may also be including employer contributions to health care premiums.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MoonchildCA
(1,301 posts)Someone elses taxes. Right now its in the form of subsidies, or tax credits, probably not from the 1%, as they dont pay their fair share.
For our insurance, my husband and I spend less than $300, but the actual cost is over $11,000. Well spend a lot more, of course, when we need to use it. A family making $40,000, probably pays very little, if any, premium out of pocket, but they are still paying it in the form of tax credits.
These tax credits go to a for-profit industry, and we already spend more on health care per capita than any other nation. It stands to reason, that a single payer system could, in the long run, save money.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Celerity
(43,498 posts)He rants about how none of Bernie's ideas and philosophies are socialism and that to call Bernie a socialist is a RW SMEAR, when Bernie himself calls himself a democratic SOCIALIST.
No, he cannot have it both ways. Democratic socialism is a real thing. One of its main core tenants is the expropriation of the means of production by the state or by socialised forces. MANY of Bernie's supporters and aiding elements at top level, especially the intellectual driving forces behind him like the DSA (which actually goes beyond mere socialism and has REAL Trotskyist communist elements inside it) and then mags like Jacobin (which is a REAL socialist magazine, and does NOT support social democratic forms of government, like we have here in Sweden, etc., as the end game) DO ADVOCATE for the expropriation of the means of production. Those groups I just listed are also profoundly anti-Democratic Party at their taproots.
It is all a giant gaslighting mechanism. Words, underpinning political philosophies, labels, and definitions matter, especially when large chunks of Bernie's supporting apparatus completely advocate exactly what people like Brian Tyler Cohen are trying to flim-flam their way out of through dishonest denialism.
Even worse, is that Sanders (if we take Cohen at face value) is completely and politically suicidally, in reactionary America, falsely adopting (again if we are to believe the spinmeisters from his campaign) the democratic SOCIALIST label for himself, which is going to be hung around every single one of our federal office level (and state level) candidates' necks, and cost us the House as well.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Kurt V.
(5,624 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
CaptYossarian
(6,448 posts)England has had DS in their country since 1900. Over there, it's called Fabian Socialism--from the Fabian Society.
The Fabian Society gained popularity over the years and evolved into today's Labour Party, the closest entity to our Democratic Party.
Some of the most famous global Democratic Socialists are Golda Meir, Bishop Desmond Tutu, Jawaharlal Nehru, and Dubya's good friend and colleague, PM Tony Blair. None of these people are particularly evil and are, in fact, admired by plenty of Americans.
The overall goal of both Democrats and Socialists is to make life better for everyone. Our party needs to appeal to both left and center to beat this horrible tyrant.
This rant is directed at all DUers who are sniping and dividing us when we should band together. I'm not attacking you, Celerity.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Celerity
(43,498 posts)valid example of a democratic socialist. He was amongst the most archetypal 3rd-way neoliberals and is HATED by actual socialists, democratic of otherwise. I would lay more than a few quid on a wager that over 90% of Bernie's core groups (especially the higher up you go, and especially within the intellectual circles that underpin vast parts of his campaign's zeitgeist) detest Blair with the passion of a thousand burning suns.
Btw, Blair is a war criminal, like Bush, with the blood of hundreds of thousands on his hands. I know almost no one who admires him, and that cuts across a multiplicity of political perspectives and philosophies. The stain of his involvement in the murderous and illegal Iraq War is far too large.
As for the Fabians, they were borne from a crucible of support for eugenics and the rabid support of the British empire. They will forever suffer from the curse of that fruit from those poisonous trees.
you said
Real socialism has always ended in tears and destruction (and please do not try and conflate social democracy, like we have here in the Nordics, with actual true socialism) so you will forgive me if I give a HARD pass to dragging our party into that paradigm of failure.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
CaptYossarian
(6,448 posts)Divided we fall.
The people I thought of that would admire Blair are the Dubya voters. I built a big tent with that sentence and my examples.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Celerity
(43,498 posts)I am fine with all the rest of the candidates (Gabbard and Steyer are inconsequential, other than Steyer's one hail mary pointless shot in SC.)
I SO wish Warren would take hammer and tongs to Bernie. She is a key to preventing his disastrous nomination.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
CaptYossarian
(6,448 posts)not too long ago. Now she went after Bloomberg.
I think she's turning the corner. I'd still vote for Pete in November, just as I'd vote for anyone with a D after their name.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Farmer-Rick
(10,207 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Celerity
(43,498 posts)to lose not only the POTUS election, but is such an anchor around our other candidates necks that we lose the House as well.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Farmer-Rick
(10,207 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Celerity
(43,498 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
melman
(7,681 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ouija
(398 posts)TV show host who doesnt get owned.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
MontanaMama
(23,337 posts)all of this than Bernie is.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden