Thanks for the thread DanTex.

Just for context of course.

Last edited Thu Feb 27, 2020, 01:26 PM - Edit history (1)

I would hazard a guess to say that except for a handful here, Democratic Socialism is not the problem for Democrats... the vast majority of Democratic voters will vote for anyone on the Democratic ticket...

we don't hate Bernie, we are not afraid of Bernie's ideology... we just believe that Bernie and his (Democratic) Socialistism will not pass muster for many of the Independent and swing voters that we need to win the swing states and the down ballot candidates

He has always polled well with indies.

And the problem that some Democrats have with the Democratic Socialist tag is that it could cause Bernie to lose to Trump in a general. Most people here understand what it means, but a lot of voters don't.

Bernie's calling himself a Democratic Socialist, however, is just one of many reasons why many discerning Democrats are leery of Bernie as the nominee. All the candidates have things that may work against them, but Bernie seems to have more than most. There are certain gambles that many people are not willing to take right now, giving how high the stakes.

I've always liked Bernie, but I don't see him as the best person for the job, not even close.

Mother Jones and this is not 1900

we are reeling from Trumpism... not a time to do a 180

Two extremes going against one another at the same time. The probable outcome could just be more extremism, which might tear apart our democracy. It could make the volatile 1960s look like a garden party. We truly live in very strange times.

Martin Luther King was a transformative figure in our history, but he did it without running for political office.

good or bad. On my list MLK is in the "good" column.

He was always just a Socialist when I’d hear him on Hartmann.

Because he now makes sure to say he's a "Democratic" socialist. So he's lying to the voters.

And what is this "Democratic Socialism" method of fighting for socialism. I'm curious to see some more pretzel logic here.

Was it when he ran for Mayor?

And you actually think that's a GOOD thing?
Bwahahahahahaha

You aren't doing him any favors, btw.

Sorry for the reply, I can't seem to reply once he deleted. Revisionism at it's best.

What I had said was, lets start taxing the corporations and investment income.

edit to add, corporate taxes are at all time low thanks to * and GOP, our taxes will change when the tax cut expires, to pay for the GOP mess. Corporate taxes will not expire due to McConnell and reconciliation to push them through.

GRR... taking a break, take care.

from a lurker.

I've never once heard Bernie say he got his "democratic socialist" label from MLK. Not once...ever.

I consider myself a socialist/democratic socialist/social democrat or anything of the sort because of King. And frankly, I don't want to hear jack crap about the civil rights movement from an individual who sat stone-faced while his supporters booed a national icon of the civil rights movement.

when he graduated from college.

And was traveling in Europe with his girlfriend during the height of the Vietnam War protest.

But after seeing how John Lewis was booed (two cycles in a row), you're about the only one who's going to buy that particular bill of goods.

K & R

Family members say at one time he was a registered Republican in his early days.. but he belonged to no party.

Yep. This will be an uphill battle, to say the least

Genghis Kahn, Evil Kneival and Michelangelo will all be added to the socialist revisionist history roster.

From what I've seen online, it is formed from two separate passages.

See quotes 9 and 10 here:

You will not take the words of MLK out of context. Not today!

In his own words during an interview in 1958, “I don’t think the Republican party is a party full of the almighty God nor is the Democratic party. They both have weaknesses…And I’m not inextricably bound to either party.” He also never stated that he was a democratic socialist. His views were not made for labeling. Righteousness and justice for all were his prime directives. Because he was taken from us so early, we will never fully understand his vision.

In the words of his wife and fellow activist, Coretta Scott King, "The media never understood Martin so they will never understand Coretta. I didn’t learn my commitment from Martin, we just converged at a certain time.”

The filter we know MLK through, is not clear because many folks recording and documenting him simply did not understand him. I don't think you realize how insulting it is to see folks (on our side or not) cherry picking quotes to fit a political narrative.

And you're right, he criticized both parties, like in that quote you cited. Who else do we know who has criticized both parties?

This big tent is filled with constructive criticism coming from all areas of our complicated coalition. Here's the thing, criticism is often received differently depending on who is dishing. If you're in the tent working while fussing to build and strengthen this party, your constructive criticism may sound one way. If you've always pissed on all parties but your own party of one, then decide to ride into one of the previously pissed on parties....well, you get the idea.

Where did Dr. King say he was a democratic socialist?

MLK advocated for democratic socialism, right there in that quote in the OP. And there are tons of other quotes from him along the same lines. Do some googling about how he felt about capitalism: if anything, MLK was more socialist than Bernie. For example, see the quote below where he writes favorably of nationalizing industry. This is not to say that MLK was a Marxist or communist. He wasn't, far from it. He was a democratic socialist.

MLK was about righteousness and justice. His vision defies labeling because it was never fully understood.

that MLK continued to evolve in his philosophy after 1958. For but one example, like his father and much of the Civil Rights leadership, he was a registered republican in the 1950s. That changed, of course, when presidential candidate John F. Kennedy called Coretta Scott King Martin was in a jail where his life was at risk. As a result of that episode, black voters came out for the Democratic tickets in numbers larger than JFK's margin of victory.

President Kennedy and, even more so, his brother Robert, were commonly accused by republicans of being "socialists" and "communists." In the late 1950s though his death, Dr. King was constantly accused of being "socialist" or "communist" as well. This included by members of the intelligence community, and not limited to the FBI. I know this for a fact, in part from listening to relatives talking at various family reunions. They believed that about JFK, RFK, and MLK.

By 1967, King was beginning to openly change his focus from "civil rights" to "human rights." In his greatest speech, on April 4, 1967, at the Riverside Church in NYC, King called for a "radical revolution of values." He then addressed the economic policies that were preventing the country from obtaining social justice.

It is true that King did not use the word "socialism." Perhaps he had taken note of what Malcolm X had said a few years before, when asked about his breaking bread with identified socialists. Malcolm said it would not be wise to put a skull & crossbones on a bottle of medicine that you recognize people need.

This history is so rich. The relationship between Martin and Malcolm is worthy of much study. Coretta's recounting of the way she mourned the loss of Malcolm is particularly potent.
The fact that the "smear" of communist/socialist/racist/whatever-ist was used in real time against MLK and so many other leaders , has me feeling some type of way about the OP.
History matters and black history is American history. As far as the 3rd part of your post.... I do notice some progressives (not you, please don't take it as so) attempt to distort MLK expanding the definition of civil rights to mean a shift from civil rights.
MLK was killed while supporting the black sanitation workers, specifically. There is a reason why it was black sanitation workers. Sometimes unions excluded their black brethren from membership.

https://www.theroot.com/dr-king-understood-the-power-of-unions-1841046468

" In our glorious fight for civil rights, we must guard against being fooled by false slogans, such as ‘right to work.’…Its purpose is to destroy labor unions and the freedom of collective bargaining by which unions have improved wages and working conditions of everyone…Wherever these laws have been passed, wages are lower, job opportunities are fewer and there are no civil rights. "

I really thank you for your post, H2O Man.

I had the benefit of a close 40+ year friendship with Rubin Carter, who was friends with both Martin and Malcolm, and also Coretta. She wrote a beautiful review of the book, "Lazarus and the Hurricane," and along with Muhammad Ali, was a long-term supporter of Rubin in both good and bad tiimes. She was an amazing woman.

That's truly awesome! This is why I love DU. All of the potential living history. Most of you guys have been around for a while (if the polling is correct). I am honored to have "spoken" with you. What a treat!