I wouldn't expect Biden to get her going like a good cup of coffee. I appreciate the manner in which she answered.

Jeebus H.

to get more polling numbers than those three...he's not inspiring anyone, but they are?

so, no surprise, he's not inspiring anyone. He might when he enters the race, that's possible, but we'll hafta see. Though, TBH, Biden's poll numbers usually go down once he declares, like the last time he ran for President and got something like 1% in Iowa... if that much, can't remember now.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

so for Bernie, it's inspiration but not name recognition, and it's the opposite for Biden (who leads Bernie and everyone else).

so before he entered the race, you'd have argued that Bernie wasn't inspiring anyone??

Last edited Mon Apr 15, 2019, 08:33 PM - Edit history (1)

but really, your automatic defense of whatever Saint Bernie does (or doesn't do) borders on the obsessive.

Bernie has been in the U.S. Congress for almost 30 years (16 as a Representative, 13 as a Senator). He wasn't exactly an unknown; granted, some were unfamiliar with him because he was a back bencher . But 30 years in Federal office doesn't make him completely unknown. You'd think he'd be better known after almost 30 years, though. (Is it a conspiracy against Bernie???)

in a highly publicized race, and continued to be top of the news every since.

Biden stopped being even a little bit relevant around 2013-2014.

Your continued insistence to the contrary is, frankly, perplexing.

He was in one of the highest-profile primaries in history.

To judge by his last run.

Lots of gaffs in that guy scrabbling to get out.

Also, getting in because you poll well is an awful reason to be president. Biden raked Clinton over the coals for not knowing why she was running. I’m looking forward to Biden’s reason. I hope it’s not nostalgia.

Not a good showing to be sure, which confirms my initial thoughts... though I expect he has improved his campaign style, having learned a few things from Obama and his political mastery.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

Some of his gaffes were epic.

https://www.nytimes.com/1987/09/24/us/biden-withdraws-bid-for-president-in-wake-of-furor.html

Better to go with the strongest Democratic candidate who can best attack and beat that asshole.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

Asking for a friend.

I cannot wait to look into it all.

"Former Rep. Beto O’Rourke (D-Texas) released 10 years of tax returns mere minutes after Sanders. South Bend, Indiana, Mayor Pete Buttigieg (D), Sen. Cory Booker (D-N.J.) and former HUD Secretary Julián Castro have yet to release their tax returns."
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/bernie-sanders-2020-democrat-releases-tax-returns_n_5cb4dd7fe4b098b9a2d85d9c

She seems animated enough to me.

I don't especially care if my Congress people or Senators are animated. I am proud of Tammy Duckworth, Dick Durbin, Cheri Bustos and Lauren Underwood. They represent people in my state without appearing overly animated. Later on, they might give their endorsements with enthusiasm. That seems more appropriate.

Would you have preferred "excite" or "inspire"? "Animate" was probably a less powerful word to use, a tempering.

And yes, it's what a candidate needs to do.

because they think they can win and do the job. The one that inspires the most votes will win the nomination. Isn't that what it's about? Inspiring votes?

Geesh.

Last edited Mon Apr 15, 2019, 03:34 PM - Edit history (1)

people to high position in their campaign who voted for Jill Stein?

unworthy of you, imo. I know of no Democrats who voted for Jill Stein. She is a putin loving nobody, why do you elevate her? Stop hating and get busy on beating rump and repugs in 2020. imo

running for the Democratic nomination

and dollars will get you donuts that Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez would not feel that the candidate who hired people who voted for Jill Stein, and refused to vote for the Democratic nominee in 2016, is a "backward" thinking person.

If I am wrong on that, then I will apologize, however, since Representative Ocasio-Cortez has been associated with the "our revolution" group

back, but rubbing salt in a wound

but encouraged others to do likewise up to the day before the election.

David Sirota, Nina Turner, and Briahna Joy Gray. All part of the Sanders campaign, and all who refused to vote for the Democratic nominee.

If she believes being supportive of Sanders is going forward, which is entirely her right, I don't. I am NOT supportive of campaigns that hire people who worked to see the Democratic nominee in 2016 defeated.

Are they also to be criticized for not being team players?

By criticizing other candidates?

Then if so yes.

It will actually mean something when he's a candidate.


https://process.filestackapi.com/AG3wH2AR3SP2Mo58NZitaz/rotate=exif:true/resize=width:1200/https://cdn.filestackcontent.com/rKrK6PQnQt2kevruG2MK

which, of course, would be perfectly fine and then anyone criticizing her for that would be torn a new one for telling her to "shut up"!!


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

the candidate has to animate the voters to vote?

They have to be inspired to vote. The candidate has to be transformational, has to earn our votes, have passion, be "authentic" whatever the hell that means. Voting isn't a civic duty like anything else in society, politicians are entertainers, tap-dancing onstage for our applause.

By not pretending to be excited by his non-existent campaign?

“I can understand why people would be excited by that, this idea that we can go back to the good old days with Obama, with Obama’s vice president. There’s an emotional element to that, but I don’t want to go back. I want to go forward.”

What you posted as her "diss" was NOT a quote. Now that we've established that and we have a full quote...so she doesn't have the same emotional response to a Biden run as some others do. So what? That's not a criticism of him. Nostalgia isn't part of her thinking. Maybe when he actually has a campaign and puts forth his thoughts on policies she will see something more to support.

I mean, I don't feel all that animated by it. I wouldn't expect someone on the far left to be a Biden fan.
So for her to say anything else would be surprising to me.

But it's absolutely a criticism.

....that our current front runner would take us backward.

I think we know quite a bit about Biden's thoughts on policy - remember, he WAS a Senator for decades and Vice President for eight years. Anyone involved in politics in this day an age should be pretty familiar with his thoughts on policy. And no, his campaign won't be based on "nostalgia".

...so at the moment he can’t be the front runner.

I didn’t say his potential campaign would be based on nostalgia. At the moment his appeal has to be largely based on nostalgia, name recognition, and his connection to Obama since there’s no campaign or policy proposals to go on at the moment. If he jumps in and gets his current thoughts out there it’ll be easier to evaluate.

AOCs comments were specifically in the context of nostalgia and a desire to return to the Obama days. All she’s saying is that isn’t her thing.

How is that different than what she said, other than one must extrapolate that 2009-2017 is before now?

...and ALL of our candidates and potential nominees will bring us into 2021.

Are you pretending to be obtuse?

Understanding and outrage over this cannot mutually exist.

Moderation, reaching across the aisle, all of which Biden was very good at - I give him credit - is the OLD way of doing things. In this day and age of hand-to-hand combat with RethugliKKKons, we need to look forward, not back, to a new way of doing things. How some can't see this is beyond belief!!


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

We just don't need that this time.

our country forward. Joe Biden would do the same. I can't say whether any candidate leasing the Democratic label animates me.

It's not who I like or who you like. It's who can win the electoral college. It's who can win the fly over states. Biden running with a progressive Dem woman would be a formidable ticket. Far left is not going to do it. We have to appeal to the majority of voters. They are not far left.

Last edited Tue Apr 16, 2019, 12:41 AM - Edit history (1)

Biden could spend the rest of his days as a beloved elder statesman but instead it seems he's going to launch another vanity bid for the White House, where people will then realize his record isn't actually all that great.

Anita Hill
Voted to repeal Glass-Steagall
Voted for the Patriot Act
Voted for the Iraq War
Voted to end bankruptcy for student debt

This guy should not be our frontrunner.

Yet he is the front runner. All those points have been brought up. Folks will keep bringing them up. But as you see, those attack points are helping Joe.

I will repeat: Joe Biden front runner for 2020.

...that didn't exactly work out...

Hillary was robbed cheated and persecuted.


Did that somehow make her less qualified?

We need to support the most qualified and make sure he isn’t robbed, cheated and persecuted.

...and I think the idea of qualifications can be tricky. What is a qualification to you may not be to someone else.

Officially there are only two qualifications needed to be President and anything else is just personal preference.

But not going to debate with anyone who thinks there are only two qualifications needed.

That’s how we got trump.

...it's laid out in the constitution:
1. Natural born citizen
2. 35 years old

OK...maybe there are four if you want to include the needed 14 years residency within the US and cannot have already served two terms...

Beyond that, individuals have decisions to make on what they consider the standards that they'll use to determine who their candidate is that they support. But there aren't any other qualifications.

LOLOL

He???

A bit presumptive.

He is for whom I will vote happily..

Biden most definitely included.

Okay. Because I think he will.
I’m not going to parse words.

Joe 2020.

Lots of folks just can’t agree to disagree.

Thanks. You have a good night.

See ya around DU.

We don't need these sort of qualifications:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omnibus_Counterterrorism_Act_of_1995

Last edited Tue Apr 16, 2019, 01:01 AM - Edit history (1)

But if, however, he somehow manages to squeak by Bernie and get the nomination, then and only then will Joe get my vote.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

he put out in response to the accusations by several women of improper contact and gave him props for doing that... but, yes, I was critical when, two days later, Biden joked about the situation, setting himself back again.

Biden's handling of issues, such as the ones raised above, also deserve proper vetting, especially his IWR vote and the regrettable way - by Biden's own admission - that he conducting the hearing with Anita Hill. That disappointing history cannot be easily dismissed simply because it is "old news."

We need to flesh out ALL issues, past and present, held by ALL candidates, to assure ourselves that the strongest one will be nominated to do battle against tRumpy and actually defeat him this time. The very survival of our country depends on it!!


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

I also find her comment that Biden's candidacy would be "going back" insulting.

Turns out that a lot of people care what other people think. Your dismissal of a particular person notwithstanding.

She has tried to create a celebrity following with her twitter outbursts but her national following is minuscule. I'm sure Biden and his center-left supporters care much about what AOC thinks.

The federal and state primaries were on different dates. Voter turnout was only 12%.

The devotees and sycophants showed up but average Democrats didn't. It was a fluke election.

1. AOC was elected with 6% of the vote. FACT.
2. In that election, the turnout was only 12%. FACT.
3. There was confusion about the date of the primary because state primaries were on a different date than the federal primaries. FACT.
4. This caused a lot of voters to miss the primary. FACT.

100,000 votes. In 2016 Rep. Crowley won with 147,000 votes and back in 2014 he won with 50,000 votes. It isn't as if the election in 2018 was exceptional in it's low voter turnout. Enumerate all you want the district just doesn't vote in high numbers. As the incumbent with $3,000,000.00 Crowley probably could have won if only he bothered to show up.

It is a safe blue district. A half-eaten sandwich can win that district in the GE on a Democratic ticket.

Your numbers are for the GE and not primaries.

In the primary, only 29,778 votes were cast. AOC got 16,898 and Joe Crowley got 12,880.

in that district beyond those from last year. Since Crowley doesn't seem to have had a Democratic challenger in 2016 I would think there would be even lower turnout, but that is pure speculation on my part. I don't see anything to indicate this district votes in very large numbers so your point that Rep. Ocasio-Cortez got only a small number of voters is moot. Crowley just got fat and sassy and took the voters for granted. Now as a Lobbyist he seems to be in a job that fits his particular talents.

which is what I said I could find. Was there more or less turnout for the 2016 Democratic Primary? How does turnout in 2018 compare to turnout in other Democratic Congressional Primaries historically? Not seeing anything to suggest that there were less voters or that it gave Ocasio-Cortez any advantage. What gave her an advantage was her opponent thinking he didn't have to campaign.