Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumJoe Biden Declines to Directly Apologize to Anita Hill for His Handling of 1991 Hearing.
on The View. (NYT)
'In his first sit-down interview of his presidential campaign, Joseph R. Biden Jr. on Friday repeatedly declined to directly apologize to Anita Hill for his handling of the 1991 Clarence Thomas hearings, instead delivering a broad statement of remorse for how she was treated during the combative questioning she faced from an all-male Senate committee that he led.
Appearing on ABCs The View, which is heavily watched by women, Mr. Biden was asked by one of its hosts, Joy Behar, about his reluctance in recent months to offer a straightforward apology to Ms. Hill for his own judgment and leadership during the hearings. Ms. Behar suggested that Mr. Biden should say, Im sorry for the way I treated you, not for the way you were treated.
Im sorry for the way she got treated, Mr. Biden responded. If you go back to what I said, and didnt say, I dont think I treated her badly.
[Read our analysis of Mr. Bidens appearance on The View]
The former vice president also declined to pledge that he would serve only one term if elected president, spoke about his relationship with former President Barack Obama, and addressed his past treatment of women who have said his touching and his conduct made them uncomfortable. . .
On Friday, Mr. Biden spoke largely in passive voice about how Ms. Hill was treated, despite the fact that he led the Senate committee when she testified before it.
Describing their phone call, he said, I said privately what Ive said publicly. Im sorry she was treated the way she was treated. I wish we could have figured out a better way to get this done. I did everything in my power to do what I thought was within the rules to be able to stop things.
I dont know why it took you so long to call her, Ana Navarro, another host, said. I wish it had happened earlier.
Since I had publicly apologized for the way she was treated, Mr. Biden said, I didnt want to, quote, invade her space, by calling her privately.'>>>
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/26/us/politics/anita-hill-biden-clarence-thomas.html?
(I listened/watched the show @ the laundromat, so was able to give it less than my full attention. Sadly, I was not moved or very impressed.)
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
WeekiWater
(3,259 posts)It's good we are getting this out of the way.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
elleng
(131,104 posts)He may need better 'coaches.'
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
WeekiWater
(3,259 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
elleng
(131,104 posts)different opinions always valuable.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Joe does not like apologizing, that's seems to be his "go to" mindset... not to Anita, or, more recently, to other women he's offended, like Lucy.
All that does is keep these stories on the front page, as he'll keep getting asked if he wants to apologize. Then, if he finally does, it'll be only because he was pressured to do so.
Better to have done it immediately, right out of the gate, but apparently ole Joe thinks he knows better. Bad move!
Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
elleng
(131,104 posts)not on WHAT to say.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
NYMinute
(3,256 posts)He is leaving Bernie back in the dust and raising money hands over fist.
No matter what Biden says to Anita Hill, it won't be enough for the Bernie devotees anyway.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
shanny
(6,709 posts)Someone always deflects to Bernie.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Indygram
(2,113 posts)I'm so disappointed in him over this. Someone in his circle REALLY needs to explain to him that a non-apology is worse than not apologizing at all.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
DURHAM D
(32,611 posts)He was counting on Anita not making a public statement because she avoids all media attention. That way he could get away with his version of the story.
The fact she responded caught him by surprise.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,431 posts)are so shitty at it.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Indygram
(2,113 posts)1) Apologize
2) Acknowledge
3) Atone
All three components of an effective and sincere apology in one simple statement:
"I'm sorry for the role I played in how you were treated. What can I do to make sure I do better in the future?"
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,431 posts)Great post.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Bradshaw3
(7,529 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BannonsLiver
(16,448 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
USALiberal
(10,877 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Indygram
(2,113 posts)Non-apologies are often just as hurtful as the original transgression. Everyone makes mistakes. Those who can take responsibility for their mistakes have courage. I'm very disappointed in Joe Biden over being so goddamned tone deaf about the non-apology.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
BannonsLiver
(16,448 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
marylandblue
(12,344 posts)That seems to be his goal, but if it doesn't sound real, it isn't effective. Passive tense apologies (how you were treated) don't sound real.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,667 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Indygram
(2,113 posts)growth, the ability to tell right from wrong, respect for others, specifically women...
As it stands now, how he is handling this has severely diminished my opinion of him. I have been on the receiving end of a lame fake ass non-apology after someone behaved in a way that wreaked havoc on my life. It's like yanking the scab off and pouring acid on the wound.
Anyone who has experienced this kind of thing (and women get this crap A LOT) is likely to find it really offensive and troublesome.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
BannonsLiver
(16,448 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Indygram
(2,113 posts)From there, Anita Hill can forgive him or not, but he will have done the right thing. That is what matters to me. It's not whether or not she forgives him, it's whether or not HE handles this the right way. It's important to me.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
BannonsLiver
(16,448 posts)There are people here, and elsewhere, deeply invested in Hill derailing Bidens candidacy. Do you really think they are going to allow him to move on by simply apologizing to her?
Sorry, I see these OPs today for what they are. A misguided, deeply pathetic effort to damage him, masquerading as concern for Hill.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Indygram
(2,113 posts)I am, however, EXTREMELY disappointed in not only the non-apology, but also in how people here are justifying something that is NOT OK. If he gives a real apology publicly and anyone here still tries to make it an issue I will be the first one to defend him. Right now I can't defend him because he is in the wrong.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
BannonsLiver
(16,448 posts)Or they would just say its not good enough.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Indygram
(2,113 posts)If he doesn't fix this it takes him from my number two to last on my list barring Gabbard and Sanders. That makes me very sad. As a woman who has been treated horribly and been offered up fake non-apologies that are intended to ease the offenders guilt rather than make amends for wrongdoing...this is NOT OK with me.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
LongtimeAZDem
(4,494 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,667 posts)are just against him. But these sort of attacks won't work because everyone knows Biden's story.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Indygram
(2,113 posts)I WANT him to be running. I do NOT want him to drop out. I want him to do the right thing because I thought he was better than this.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
LongtimeAZDem
(4,494 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Indygram
(2,113 posts)and I don't think that he lacks any of those things but refusing to give a legitimate apology implies that he doesn't.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Kurt V.
(5,624 posts)we are a sum of our lived experiences.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
BannonsLiver
(16,448 posts)This is the Gettysburg address compared to Bernies meltdown at She the People.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Thekaspervote
(32,793 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
marlakay
(11,491 posts)Its almost over here on the west, he isnt coming across well except as a very compassionate person with grief issues.
I was hoping to see the tough Joe ready to take on Trump but he seemed like he couldnt understand why he had to explain things.
Maybe it would have been better to say I am a very expressive kind of guy I sincerely apologize to anyone who took it as more than what I meant in my heart and I am changing. And to Anita say I apologize for not supporting you in the way that you needed at the time, I was trying my best at the time but it didnt work for you. Something like that.
He ended up spending most of his hour defending what he did and who he is instead of going forward.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
elleng
(131,104 posts)sadly.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Was surprised Joe's advisors didn't prepare him better than that, given the friendly environment of The View, but, maybe they didn't think they needed to prep Joe very much because of that. Hopefully, they've learned from this.
Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
emmaverybo
(8,144 posts)For Republicans cynically choosing a very flawed candidate who, to their political advantage, would be only the second African American male in history to go on to be an SC justice, thus putting liberals in a bind if they should reject him. He should not apologize for Thomas, a sick abuser, who misappropriated serious racial injustice to himself in claiming the hearings were a high tech lynching. With this, Thomas cloaked his sexual abuse in righteousness, evoking horrible images of black males murdered for the myth of being unable to control sexual aggression.He, and the Repugs advancing him, dared the white male Dems to risk being seen as continuing systemic racial discrimination to stop black males from assuming power within the system.
Biden should not apologize for an imperfect, ineffective hearing process, still the recourse for sexual abuse claims, in which the accuser can be attacked, while the chairman must appear to run things in a bipartisan manner.
Neither should he apologize for the false smears Repugs engineered to continue discrediting Hill, after the hearings.
Finally he should not apologize for his Dem colleagues who were cowed by the optics and pulled their punches.
He voted against Thomas. He attempted to be more interrogative of him than his colleagues. He has gone on to praise Hill, has never attacked her, and has done great stuff for women.
The day he assumes responsibility for wrongs that did not originate with him is the day he keeps on having to shoulder the blame for Thomas, conservatives, a flawed system for dealing with sex abuse accusations, his colleagues, and ugly exploitation of racial inequity that Thomas was complicit in with his sponsors.
Enough!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DURHAM D
(32,611 posts)was completely under his control. He decided the agenda, the witnesses, the scheduling and the timing. eos
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
LongtimeAZDem
(4,494 posts)look like he was pursing a partisan outcome at the expense of the facts.
This is what we get pissed at the Republicans for doing, remember?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DURHAM D
(32,611 posts)The witness credibility thingie was made up later by the Biden staff.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
LongtimeAZDem
(4,494 posts)Seriously, this has gone off the rails.
If Biden had been given ANYTHING credible with which he could stop the Thomas confirmation, he would have used it.
People have created this insane narrative where he acquiesced to an horrible candidate just to snub Hill.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DURHAM D
(32,611 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
USALiberal
(10,877 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,667 posts)It.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
USALiberal
(10,877 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
G_j
(40,370 posts)at least to me it does
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
marylandblue
(12,344 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
elleng
(131,104 posts)as I recall. Learned about it some time ago. Was there a documentary on the subject, few years ago?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)This wasn't a panel of law judges. They were Senators.
I saw the hearing. I thought he treated Anita Hill respectfully.
This was almost 30 years ago. This was the first time that panel was having a confirmation on an Af. American Judge to be Justice. So it was touchy for that reason, to begin with.
But Biden did pretty well. He was maybe weak. They maybe should have done this or that. But it wasn't a trial. I think Anita Hill thinks of it as a trial. It wasn't. She wanted an expert called to explain the effects of sexual harassment. They could have done that, but that wasn't that relevant, actually. A man could do or say something which makes him ineligible to be a S.Ct. Justice, without his behavior causing lasting distress to the "victim."
I don't know that anything he could have done differently would have changed the outcome. The Senators were free to vote how they wanted to. Just like for Kavanaugh, the Republicans were going to vote to confirm. And a few Democrats, unfortunately, did, too. Biden did not.
I have no more problem with that than with the bankrtupcy law he pushed through, which adversely affected everyone in the country (you couldn't get medical bills excused in bankruptcy, any more, as I recall the bill was).
Those who want to use the Hill issue will be mentioning this repeatedly. Nothing will quieten them, since it helps the candidate they support. Biden could apologize, not apologize, turn back the clock, or do anything. They would still keep harping on this.
Which means that others will harp on things regarding the other candidates.
This is why Senators and representatives are usually not elected President. Because people can use their record going back for years. Too much to attack, rightly or wrongly.
The thing remains, though, that Biden just might be the best candidate to beat Trump. We'll see. We'll see if the Democrats want to beat down their candidate against Trump. I think we should be respectful and realistic when addressing concerns we have about the candidates.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
marylandblue
(12,344 posts)Which I know makes me as evil as any deplorable and all that, but I'm not a purist or a saint. I just want to win. Which is what everyone else says they want, but I'm just owning up to what that means in a Trumpian world.
In a Trumpian world, how you respond to negative information makes all the difference. Trump gets away with everything because he doubles down and attacks every accuser no matter how petty. Crazy that it works, but it obviously does work well enough to keep him alive this far.
Biden, so far, has given half apologies. I think that isn't such a good way to respond and it will hurt him.
But what do I know? I'm a Democratic deplorable. If Biden shot a Republican on Fifth Avenue, I'd drive the getaway car.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
elleng
(131,104 posts)I think we should be respectful and realistic when addressing concerns we have about the candidates.'
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)They weren't married, they weren't lovers, they aren't even in the same party. She testified in a confirmation hearing as a consequence of her own written statements. Why has Anita Hill become a permanent part of Biden's life?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
marylandblue
(12,344 posts)And was the #metoo moment of it's day. Biden is a man of his generation, so we shouldn't fault him too much for misunderstanding the situation back then. But we've learned a lot since then, and certain voters will demand that he show he learnt it too.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,667 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
marylandblue
(12,344 posts)You either didn't live through it, have forgotten, or perhaps because maybe it didn't affect you much, you think it's "nonsense" that it might have affected others. You have a right to disagree of course, but you are simply dismissing the feelings of people who were there, remember it, and saw how the workplace changed as a result. If you think there is something wrong with sexual harassment today, thank Anita Hill, all by herself, for bringing it to your attention.
https://www.history.com/news/anita-hill-confirmation-hearings-impact
https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2018/09/18/no-women-served-senate-judiciary-committee-ugly-anita-hill-hearings-changed-that/?utm_term=.6b296c430b5b
https://money.cnn.com/2017/10/30/pf/anita-hill-sexual-harassment/index.html
It doesn't really matter to me anymore. But I do like to keep the record straight.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,667 posts)You all are supporting other candidates just another take down attempt...won't work. Biden can win . None of the others candidates can in my opinion.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
marylandblue
(12,344 posts)I said, "left a mark," not traumatized. It wasn't a rape. But it was more than just another hearing. Same way the Ford-Kavanaugh hearing was.
And I also said, "Biden is a man of his generation, so we shouldn't fault him too much for misunderstanding the situation back then." If you consider that a take down attempt, that's a really thin glass jaw you have there.
As always, I don't care if Biden shot someone on Fifth Avenue. If he shoots a Republican, I'll even hand him the gun. But I do care about how he cleans up afterward. It's not illegal to shoot someone, it's only illegal to lose votes over it.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
liberalnarb
(4,532 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,667 posts)Last edited Fri Apr 26, 2019, 08:29 PM - Edit history (1)
Biden.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
stonecutter357
(12,697 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
True Dough
(17,320 posts)Joe's getting a lot of press coverage over this. The news channels are portraying this as Biden tripping out of the gate, and over a very old issue that he's had plenty of time to ponder and be prepared to address because it was sure to arise once his candidacy was confirmed. He comes off as defensive. Not a good look.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
marylandblue
(12,344 posts)Everything gets spun against him, and he doesn't know how to spin it back. Maybe this time will be different, but it doesn't look that way so far.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Thekaspervote
(32,793 posts)What do you want?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BannonsLiver
(16,448 posts)Hill is just a bludgeon. A tool.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
George II
(67,782 posts)I thought his appearance on the View was great, and glad they didn't rush him on and off, he was there for most of the entire hour. Some of the questions I thought, however, were inane. Why should Biden be expected to "pledge" that he'd serve only one term? Is anyone else being asked that?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LongtimeAZDem
(4,494 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Kahuna7
(2,531 posts)who earned the nickname, 'snarlin' Arlen' after that debacle? They were entitled to ask their questions and there is nothing Biden could have done to stop them.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
And Thomas. Somehow he gets forgotten. He has never been called to answer.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
NastyRiffraff
(12,448 posts)It would look like he's doing it only because he's running for president. I like Joe and would happily vote for him in the general, but I think he was mistaken about Anita Hill initially, and it's going to be hard to correct it at this late date. Doesn't mean he wouldn't be a good president, but this is an issue that may haunt him.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Persondem
(1,936 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
underthematrix
(5,811 posts)BLACK PEOPLE of all political types wanted an African American on the SCOTUS even though the dude was a perv. Both Biden and Bush 1 understood this. In 1991, this is was a big deal for the AfAm community. The community was angry with Anita Hill because they saw her accusation as an old racist stereotype about black male sexuality. I believed Anita Hill but I hated what she was doing to the image of black men in general. We were relieved it didn't work. That's when I first fell in love with Joe Biden. He handled a very difficult situation with humility and grace. DU members you need to stop evaluating historical events with current values. Learn the history, especially black history before you post stuff like this.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LongtimeAZDem
(4,494 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,667 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DURHAM D
(32,611 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
LongtimeAZDem
(4,494 posts)When the history of these times is written, it will be interesting to see how historians view the position of the National Board of the NAACP -- an organization committed to advancing colored people, which is opposed, on ideological grounds, to this nomination of a black man to the U.S. Supreme Court.
Let the record show that the NAACP's former national board chair respectfully disagrees with its position.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/1991/08/06/the-naacp-is-wrong-on-thomas/2228e5f0-b2f7-483b-84e8-2cdd8d9d5aa0/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.7219ec274bf0
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
underthematrix
(5,811 posts)he's both unqualified and will support positions that harm black people. But the average black person saw a black man being elevated to the highest court in the land. Not the evil he would soon prove to be. History can be a powerful friend.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Skittles
(153,193 posts)what I saw was an extremely accomplished black woman with incredible courage who was treated with suspicion and outright hostility - I thought Clarence Thomas was disgusting, and he has proved himself to be one of the worst justices EVER.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Indygram
(2,113 posts)What bothers me is that he chose to reach out and offer an apology and rather than do it properly he gave a non-apology. What some people don't seem to understand is that a non-apology serves one purpose and one purpose only...to make the apologizer feel better. It seeks to ease the guilt of the person who is apologizing and avoid making amends to the person being apologized to. I've been on the receiving end of non apologies and I can assure you that receiving one of those is FAR WORSE than getting no apology at all because it makes you feel minimized, disregarded and victimized all over again. She didn't seek him out asking for an apology. He sought her out. For him to stir this all up and impact her all over again he damn well needs to get it right. If he doesn't, then he's just not the man I always imagined him to be.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,667 posts)Why should he.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Turbineguy
(37,365 posts)It may be important.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LakeArenal
(28,845 posts)We should get Anita Hill to come on with you here on the View and Joe said positively that he would do it. I dont want to paraphrase his exact words.
Unfortunately the previous dozens of commenters didnt get to know that.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
elleng
(131,104 posts)But there was discussion about how maybe Dr. Hill wouldn't be interested, or has suggested some such.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided