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Uncle Joe

(58,680 posts)
Thu Feb 29, 2024, 12:22 PM Feb 29

Israel Kills 104 Palestinians Waiting for Food Aid as U.N. Expert Accuses Israel of Starving Gaza



In Gaza City, at least 104 Palestinian refugees were killed Thursday when Israeli troops opened fire on a crowd waiting for food aid. "This isn't the first time people have been shot at by Israeli forces while people have been trying to access food," says the U.N.'s special rapporteur on the right to food, Michael Fakhri, who accuses Israel of the war crime of intentional starvation. This comes as reports grow of Palestinians resorting to animal feed and cactus leaves for sustenance and as experts warn of imminent agricultural collapse. "Every single person in Gaza is hungry," says Fakhri, who emphasizes that famine in the modern context is a human-made catastrophe. "At this point I'm running out of words to be able to describe the horror of what's happening and how vile the actions have been by Israel against the Palestinian civilians."
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Israel Kills 104 Palestinians Waiting for Food Aid as U.N. Expert Accuses Israel of Starving Gaza (Original Post) Uncle Joe Feb 29 OP
History will NOT be kind. nt TeamProg Feb 29 #1
... to those who gave aid and comfort to Hamas. To those who made excuses for Hamas. Oopsie Daisy Feb 29 #2
Is there a number of dead Palestinians SCantiGOP Feb 29 #3
This is a war. It's not revenge. This war's purpose is to defeat Hamas and secure the return of hostages * Oopsie Daisy Feb 29 #14
What is happening now is not war SCantiGOP Feb 29 #15
War is not meant to be "proportional" it's meant to defeat the enemy. Oopsie Daisy Feb 29 #16
as Clausewitz once pointed out SCantiGOP Feb 29 #18
You know damn well that doesn't excuse what IDF is doing. louis-t Feb 29 #4
Democracy Now is an Israel hating propaganda site. madaboutharry Feb 29 #6
What ever you say boss! Check out this Times Of Israel article: TeamProg Feb 29 #11
Post removed Post removed Feb 29 #12
Yes it is. Oopsie Daisy Feb 29 #13
Well, THAT turns out to not be true! TeamProg Mar 1 #21
when Hamas massacred, slaughtered, agingdem Feb 29 #7
I must refer you to this DU post: TeamProg Feb 29 #9
We never DID show any of those you mention any kindness to begin with, nor do they deserve it. We're way passed that now TeamProg Feb 29 #8
Luckily, 67% of Americans, 77% of Democrats, and a very large majority of Gaugamela Feb 29 #10
Gaza tragegy waltp4328 Feb 29 #5
Using terrorism to fight terrorism will not work. Bloodlust and murder are what they are; those spinning it are chasing Magoo48 Feb 29 #17
Most were killed when run over by the trucks as they swarmed the trucks. SunSeeker Feb 29 #19
You forgot to preface your facts with context Uncle Joe Feb 29 #20

Oopsie Daisy

(2,969 posts)
2. ... to those who gave aid and comfort to Hamas. To those who made excuses for Hamas.
Thu Feb 29, 2024, 12:28 PM
Feb 29

To those who want to justify the rape, gang-rape, torture, sexual mutilation and murder committed by Hamas.

Oopsie Daisy

(2,969 posts)
14. This is a war. It's not revenge. This war's purpose is to defeat Hamas and secure the return of hostages *
Thu Feb 29, 2024, 01:37 PM
Feb 29

* and Hamas has the power to end it all.

Oopsie Daisy

(2,969 posts)
16. War is not meant to be "proportional" it's meant to defeat the enemy.
Thu Feb 29, 2024, 02:02 PM
Feb 29

Hamas is to blame for civilian deaths.

War is not some sporting event, where dead people are points, and at some juncture 'enough' have been accumulated so the war ends. But that does seem to be how many guide their understanding of it.

War is the attempt of one party to a dispute to impose by violence what it cannot secure by purchase or reason. It ends when the party first resorting to violence secures its object against the violent objection of the other, or acknowledges its violence has failed to do so, and ceases to fight.

In war one does not so much strive to kill people in order to end their lives, as one kills people to convince other people they'll be next if they don't give up, or flee, or at the very least keep their heads down a while.

It is true that if one party to a war fields a soldiery who actively courts death, killing a good deal more is required than in the average run: such soldieries are not common to history.

It is also obvious that such a death-desiring soldiery, establishing itself in facilities and fighting positions beside, under, or over the dwellings of non-combatants, is going get a great many persons killed in course of war against them, who will suffer for no better reason than that they were in the way of people fighting the men here to fight till they died.

I suppose you might say that is worth it, if you favor the resolution of the dispute they are contending for, certainly no one opposed to it would agree.

If people do take up for a side which fields soldiery of this sort, and disposes them in that manner, they ought at least to be clear about what the goal actually sought by that side is.

louis-t

(23,323 posts)
4. You know damn well that doesn't excuse what IDF is doing.
Thu Feb 29, 2024, 12:33 PM
Feb 29

It's obvious there is no hope for a 2-state solution while IDF murders people standing in line for food or bulldozes cemeteries seemingly trying to erase Palestinian history. I don't defend Hamas, but Israel is committing war crimes as well.

madaboutharry

(40,252 posts)
6. Democracy Now is an Israel hating propaganda site.
Thu Feb 29, 2024, 12:48 PM
Feb 29

Making excuses for Hamas is their mission. There is other reporting that contradicts the Democracy Now narrative. But many don’t care to find the nuance or the facts.

Demonizing Israel is the only thing that matters.

Hamas blamed the IDF for the deaths. The military said most of the casualties were caused by a stampede and being run over by the supply vehicles. Gunmen also opened fire in the area as they looted the supplies.

The army said it did not fire at the crowd rushing the main aid convoy. It acknowledged that troops opened fire on several Gazans who moved toward soldiers and a tank at an IDF checkpoint, endangering soldiers, after they had rushed the last truck in the convoy further south.

The Israel Defense Forces published drone video showing thousands of people swarming around the aid trucks as they reached the area in northern Gaza. In some cases, the vehicles continued to try and push past the crowds.

According to an initial IDF probe of the crush, the vast majority of the casualties were a result of trampling and being struck by the aid trucks.


https://www.timesofisrael.com/dozens-of-gazans-said-killed-in-stampede-for-aid-idf-opens-fire-blamed-for-deaths/

TeamProg

(6,444 posts)
11. What ever you say boss! Check out this Times Of Israel article:
Thu Feb 29, 2024, 01:14 PM
Feb 29
https://www.democraticunderground.com/1016368851

For years, Netanyahu propped up Hamas. Now it's blown up in our faces
(Please note: The Times Of Israel is a valid and responsible media outlet. I was urged to post this piece by an Admin himself after a similar post from a less reliable source was flagged and removed -thank you)

https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/

For years, Netanyahu propped up Hamas. Now it’s blown up in our faces

By Tal Schneider 8 October 2023, 3:58 pm

For years, the various governments led by Benjamin Netanyahu took an approach that divided power between the Gaza Strip and the West Bank — bringing Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas to his knees while making moves that propped up the Hamas terror group.
The idea was to prevent Abbas — or anyone else in the Palestinian Authority’s West Bank government — from advancing toward the establishment of a Palestinian state.
Thus, amid this bid to impair Abbas, Hamas was upgraded from a mere terror group to an organization with which Israel held indirect negotiations via Egypt, and one that was allowed to receive infusions of cash from abroad.

Hamas was also included in discussions about increasing the number of work permits Israel granted to Gazan laborers, which kept money flowing into Gaza, meaning food for families and the ability to purchase basic products.

Israeli officials said these permits, which allow Gazan laborers to earn higher salaries than they would in the enclave, were a powerful tool to help preserve calm.
-snip-

Most of the time, Israeli policy was to treat the Palestinian Authority as a burden and Hamas as an asset. Far-right MK Bezalel Smotrich, now the finance minister in the hardline government and leader of the Religious Zionism party, said so himself in 2015.
-snip-


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Much, much more at the link, really interesting.

Response to madaboutharry (Reply #6)

agingdem

(7,891 posts)
7. when Hamas massacred, slaughtered,
Thu Feb 29, 2024, 01:07 PM
Feb 29

raped, mutilated, tortured, dismembered, burned, captured Israeli citizens Hamas knew exactly how Israel would retaliate and they sent their "we are the true victims" narrative into the media-sphere to offset the horror they unleashed...consequently any "number count" coming out the Hamas PR "machine" is not to be trusted...

the Palestinians are not helpless victims...they allow Hamas to store their weapons in tunnels under schools, hospitals, mosques, and homes...they are willing human shields...they teach their children to hate Jews, hate Israel, die for the cause...they allow Hamas to divert billions of dollars of humanitarian aid into their own pockets, while they live in poverty...they are to blame for their third world circumstance, not Israel..

this is war...innocents die in war, and that is a fact...6 million Jews were shot, gassed, and incinerated...where was the outrage?...

TeamProg

(6,444 posts)
8. We never DID show any of those you mention any kindness to begin with, nor do they deserve it. We're way passed that now
Thu Feb 29, 2024, 01:07 PM
Feb 29

Netanyahu and his supporters have shown us what they actually want, and in a sense, who they are.

IMO, Netanyahu should be given Slobodan's cell at the Hague.

So, you have no sympathy for those 104 unarmed people waiting for aid then I guess.



Gaugamela

(2,502 posts)
10. Luckily, 67% of Americans, 77% of Democrats, and a very large majority of
Thu Feb 29, 2024, 01:12 PM
Feb 29

the world disagree with you, because they can see that Palestinians are just as human as Israelis, they don’t like wannabe fascist dictators, and they have no problem calling out genocide when they see it.

Magoo48

(4,736 posts)
17. Using terrorism to fight terrorism will not work. Bloodlust and murder are what they are; those spinning it are chasing
Thu Feb 29, 2024, 02:09 PM
Feb 29

their own tails.

SunSeeker

(51,906 posts)
19. Most were killed when run over by the trucks as they swarmed the trucks.
Thu Feb 29, 2024, 05:18 PM
Feb 29

The BBC story on it says one eyewitness told the BBC that the bulk of the casualties were caused by the trucks running people over, not by the Israeli gunfire.
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-middle-east-68438112?src_origin=BBCS_BBC

Here's the statement of what occurred, as released by Israel:

"About 30 trucks with humanitarian aid entered [under] the operation of international agencies and the Israel Defense Forces after checking from Rafah and Kerem Shalom to the north of the Gaza Strip on the coastal axis. The final destination: humanitarian shelters in Gaza City and the Rimal neighbourhood.

Toward 4am thousands of Gazans arrived from the coastline and attacked the trucks – dozens were killed and hundreds were injured from trampling, crowding and overcrowding when crowds boarded the trucks and took everything that came near

In a report received by the security bodies, fire was opened from humanitarian shelters in the north of the Gaza Strip on some of the trucks that started moving north. Later these trucks were also looted.

Early in the morning, after the chaos with the trucks, hundreds of Gazans approached the IDF force and a tank … whose mission was to secure one stage of the logistics operation. According to army officials, when the crowd approached the force, they first fired into the air, and when the mob did not stop, it was fired at him live shooting. There are a few casualties in this incident."


https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2024/feb/29/middle-east-crisis-live-updates-israel-hamas-war-latest-today-gaza-death-toll-hamas-health-ministry?page=with:block-65e07f758f08e4761434231d#block-65e07f758f08e4761434231d

Facts matter.

Uncle Joe

(58,680 posts)
20. You forgot to preface your facts with context
Thu Feb 29, 2024, 06:06 PM
Feb 29


Israel’s military has published a video of what it claims is a mob looting aid trucks in Gaza in the buildup to the incident which health officials in Gaza says has killed at least 104 people.

Itay Blumental, who is a military correspondent at Israel public broadcasting corporation, has posted this interpretation of the IDF’s claim about what has happened. He wrote:

(snip)

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2024/feb/29/middle-east-crisis-live-updates-israel-hamas-war-latest-today-gaza-death-toll-hamas-health-ministry?page=with:block-65e07f758f08e4761434231d#block-65e07f758f08e4761434231d





Currently Israel is a defendant at the International Court of Justice for potential genocide, so what comes from their military, I would take with a large grain of salt particularly as so many journalists have been killed in Gaza.

(snip)

Israel’s continued failure to ease the humanitarian crisis in Gaza risks genocide
Today, the ICJ ordered that Israel must do everything within its power to prevent genocidal acts against Gazans. Such acts include, among others, deliberately inflicting conditions of life calculated to bring about Gazans’ physical destruction, carried out with the intent to destroy the Gazan people. To further mitigate the risk of genocide, the court also ordered Israel to immediately and effectively enable the provision of humanitarian aid and basic services to Gaza.

The ICJ’s order is legally binding on Israel, as are the Genocide Convention and Geneva Conventions. Accordingly, there is no doubt that Israel must take concrete actions to ease what the court found to be a “catastrophic humanitarian situation” and restore conditions that can support life in Gaza, not risk its destruction. Specifically, Israel must allow food, water, medical aid, fuel, and other humanitarian essentials into Gaza, without delay or arbitrary restrictions on quantities or types of aid. Israel must cease telecommunications blackouts to ensure aid can be delivered to and distributed across Gaza. Israel must stop denying humanitarian aid distribution within Gaza. Israel must limit its military operations in Gaza to ensure that humanitarian aid can be delivered to and distributed across all of Gaza. Israel must not attack civilians waiting for humanitarian aid.

Failure by Israel to take these steps places Gazans at further risk of genocide.



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