General Discussion

65.

See the bottom of this post for a Wikipedia page that compares health care costs in various countries.

Here are the costs in Sweden which is probably about as expensive as healthcare gets in single payer countries:

1000 kr = US$125 so 100 kr is $12.50

One-day hospital stay 100 kr
Primary care visit 100- 300 kr
Specialist visit 400 kr
12 months of prescriptions (maximum) 2,200 kr

https://transferwise.com/gb/blog/healthcare-system-in-sweden

In addition, in Sweden, apparently healthcare is paid for through municipal taxes according to that article. (I find that hard to believe.)

Costs for health and medical care amounted to approximately 9 percent of Sweden’s gross domestic product in 2005, a figure that remained fairly stable since the early 1980s. By 2015 the cost had risen to 11.9% of GDP -the highest in Europe.[4] Seventy-one percent of health care is funded through local taxation, and county councils have the right to collect income tax. The state finances the bulk of health care costs, with the patient paying a small nominal fee for examination. The state pays for approximately 97% of medical costs.[5]

When a physician declares a patient to be ill for whatever reason (by signing a certificate of illness/unfitness), the patient is paid a percentage of their normal daily wage from the second day. For the first 14 days, the employer is required to pay this wage, and after that the state pays the wage until the patient is declared fit.

(See also the very low infant mortality rate in Sweden on this Wikipedia page.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Sweden

The French health care system is one of universal health care largely financed by government national health insurance. In its 2000 assessment of world health care systems, the World Health Organization found that France provided the "close to best overall health care" in the world.[1] In 2011, France spent 11.6% of GDP on health care, or US$4,086 per capita,[2] a figure much higher than the average spent by countries in Europe but less than in the US. Approximately 77% of health expenditures are covered by government funded agencies.

Most general physicians are in private practice but draw their income from the public insurance funds. These funds, unlike their German counterparts, have never gained self-management responsibility. Instead, the government has taken responsibility for the financial and operational management of health insurance (by setting premium levels related to income and determining the prices of goods and services refunded).[1] The French government generally refunds patients 70% of most health care costs, and 100% in case of costly or long-term ailments. Supplemental coverage may be bought from private insurers, most of them nonprofit, mutual insurers. Until 2000, coverage was restricted to those who contributed to social security (generally, workers or retirees), excluding some poor segments of the population; the government of Lionel Jospin put into place universal health coverage and extended the coverage to all those legally resident in France. Only about 3.7% of hospital treatment costs are reimbursed through private insurance, but a much higher share of the cost of spectacles and prostheses (21.9%), drugs (18.6%) and dental care (35.9%) (figures from the year 2000). There are public hospitals, non-profit independent hospitals (which are linked to the public system), as well as private for-profit hospitals.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_France

Dental care was always included in my single-payer plans. (My dentist in one country was horrified to see that I had mercury in my fillings. Mercury had not been used in that country in fillings for a long time. He took them all out because he said they were dangerous. I don't think dentists use mercury here any more either.) It hasn't been in the plans I have had here unless I paid extra.

Also, there were lots of extras in the European plans that you would pay a lot for here. For instance, when I was in France, the health insurance provided exercise classes for women following birth so that their core muscles could get back into healthy shape. I could not participate because I had a cesarean -- and had to heal the wound but I think that is a great idea. It makes women stronger, and encourages them to exercise throughout their lives.

Here is a comparison of the cost of insurance in the US per capita with other countries:

US: $9,892

France: $4,600

Germany: $5,551 (not the most expensive)

Spain: $3,248

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_health_expenditure_per_capita

The cost depends on the cost of living in general in the country, so the pay can be assumed to be higher in the countries in which health insurance is more expensive. (Not so true for the US compared to Germany.)

Remember. Their health insurance includes a lot that ours does not -- not just dental care and exercise classes for French women but detox for alcoholics, etc. that we pay for through other means. Our healthcare is expensive, very expensive which is why single payer here seems too expensive to legislators. It's a vicious circle.

Check out our life expectancy. It is low compared to countries in general that have single payer. I've posted on that before. And our infant mortality rate -- where you really notice that a certain segment of our population does not have adequate, not even adequate healthcare is an embarrassment.

US ---- 5.80 deaths per 1,000 live births.

France ---- 3.20 deaths per 1,000 live births.

Germany ---- 3.40 deaths per 1,000 live births

Greece ---- 4.60 although it is a relatively poor country

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2091rank.html

I hope you will have a chance to look at these pages. I think I will save this post myself.

We have great healthcare outcomes for those who can afford healthcare insurance and healthcare itself. But . . . . we have so many very, very poor people who are not covered.