General Discussion

Violet_Crumble

(35,980 posts)

71. Let me tell you where I get my figures from...

Tue Apr 23, 2024, 02:42 AM

Apr 23

'They give numbers and they are reported, here and other places, as stone facts.'

I go on what international organisations are citing, and they happen to have relied going back at least as far as 2014 on a combination of statistics and names from the Gaza Health Ministry and independent sources.

'In response, the Palestinian Authority Health Ministry released the names, ages, genders and ID numbers of 7,028 Palestinians who were killed in Gaza, as collected by the ministry there. According to Reuters, the list was analyzed by Zeina Jamaluddine, Francesco Checchi and Oona Campbell of the London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine and found to be sound. Their findings appeared in the medical journal The Lancet.

"Our simple analysis indicates high excess mortality among Gazan population groups that are likely to be largely civilian, including humanitarian and health-care workers, indicating a substantial number of Palestinians killed during this period," they wrote.

"Assessments of Palestinian Ministry of Health data validity in the 2014 conflict had shown them to be accurate, and we saw no obvious reason to doubt the validity of the data between October 7 and 26, 2023."'

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-12-26/ty-article-magazine/.premium/20-000-dead-and-counting-the-battle-over-verifying-gazas-death-toll/0000018c-a0ae-d92d-addf-eaff010a0000

A few months back I dispensed with actual numbers and now go with WAY FUCKING TOO MANY DEAD INNOCENTS.

'I also hear about how people are starving, but every picture I see from Gaza is of a sea of healthy and well fed looking military aged men.'

Ooh. I can play that clumsy game as well!

I also hear about how Americans are homeless, but every picture I see from the US is a sea of entitled people parking expensive cars in the driveways of their expensive homes.

See how stupid it sounds? I'd suggest you open yr eyes and start looking at the photos of destruction and suffering coming out of Gaza. They're not hard to find, and I honestly don't believe anyone who has an opinion on Gaza could not have seen them.

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Highlight:

15,000 children killed in Gaza by Israel. [View all] Cattledog Apr 21 OP

It's horrible. And it's wrong. Easterncedar Apr 21 #1

The ghouls don't care. Shameful. n/t demmiblue Apr 21 #2

No doubt some will be chiming in here shortly to demonstrate as much. RockRaven Apr 21 #4

Just so we are clear.... edisdead Apr 23 #118

From the Reuter's ARticle reporting this AZLD4Candidate Apr 21 #3

Why don't you give us a number that you feel is more realistic. Chainfire Apr 21 #5

Missed the point completely. You want to believe the Hamas elected Gaza Government, all on you AZLD4Candidate Apr 21 #10

So just to follow up Eko Apr 22 #14

Better check yourself- take a hard look DaBronx Apr 23 #101

They can't be trusted, but you know damn well that thousands of civilians have died, and msny are kids. ExciteBike66 Apr 23 #114

Not hiding at all DaBronx Apr 23 #115

And Hamas is guilty as well edisdead Apr 23 #121

No one is pretending DaBronx Apr 23 #125

We actually dont know that the information coming from the Gaza government Eko Apr 23 #120

The Lancet says the numbers are right womanofthehills Apr 25 #158

I am sorry, but it is you who missed the point. Chainfire Apr 22 #18

Again, you want to trust numbers from the Hamas elected Gaza Government that the UN used, by all means AZLD4Candidate Apr 22 #19

I see you are not going to answer the question, that is an answer in itself. Chainfire Apr 22 #48

I have no desire to interact with someone who believes Hamas terrorists. AZLD4Candidate Apr 22 #63

The question is who are the terrorists now? Chainfire Apr 22 #67

Do you think Israels response edisdead Apr 23 #123

No one that I know would complain about Israel making war on HAMAS Chainfire Apr 24 #144

The UN is reporting these numbers Alpeduez21 Apr 22 #59

They are using Gaza Government numbers. I said that in my OP and even highlighted the part of the article AZLD4Candidate Apr 22 #61

So you are saying the UN are dupes obamanut2012 Apr 23 #77

You really are way off base DaBronx Apr 23 #106

Again edisdead Apr 23 #122

Who should we believe instead? whathehell Apr 22 #54

How about not using Gaza Government numbers in reporting? Because the Hamas elected government AZLD4Candidate Apr 22 #62

How about answering the question whathehell Apr 22 #64

Top Medical Journal - The Lancet "No evidence of inflated mortality reporting from the Gaza Ministry of Health" womanofthehills Apr 25 #157

Actually, list is updated daily with the names and ages of all dead so relatives can check to see if their loved ones womanofthehills Apr 22 #15

How many Jewish women have been raped and children killed by Hamas "freedom fighters" of the last 75 years? AZLD4Candidate Apr 22 #20

Oh, tit for tat it is. Avalon Sparks Apr 22 #34

Where were you the last 75 years? Never mind, I already know AZLD4Candidate Apr 22 #39

How about anti-war crimes? DenaliDemocrat Apr 23 #73

Agreed Hamas is guilty of war crimes edisdead Apr 23 #124

Wow DenaliDemocrat Apr 25 #150

So the IDF never rapes or kills? whathehell Apr 22 #56

And I read Hamas saying from the river to the sea. You know, I don't do Israel/Jews bad any more AZLD4Candidate Apr 23 #99

It's not that simple, whathehell Apr 23 #100

Protesters against Israel throw rock, rock, rock, grenade. Hamas uses civilians as human shields AZLD4Candidate Apr 23 #103

Like most here, I'm anti-Netanyahu, not anti-Israel whathehell Apr 23 #108

You said Israel, not Bibi. And I am completely done with you AZLD4Candidate Apr 23 #134

It's not Jews/Israel choie Apr 23 #138

When we were attacked t Pearl Harbor, we fought back. AZLD4Candidate Apr 23 #140

Strawman as big as the Wicker Man obamanut2012 Apr 23 #78

Really, you don't say? NickB79 Apr 22 #35

Nah, the poster's data is absolutely better than what you just posted obamanut2012 Apr 23 #79

A terrible tragedy that sits with Hamas DaBronx Apr 23 #116

The numbers are an undercount TheRealNorth Apr 22 #23

And you have evidence of this of course? You don't? Well, okay then. AZLD4Candidate Apr 22 #27

Agreed...the Hamas propaganda machine at work.. agingdem Apr 22 #41

How about ONE (1), Is that a good number for you? Think. Again. Apr 22 #52

Yet you seem not to have problems with 1200 killed by Hamas AZLD4Candidate Apr 23 #76

Quit equating those agaisnt the treatment of Gaza with people "protesting Jews" obamanut2012 Apr 23 #80

You obviously haven't read any of my many posts... Think. Again. Apr 23 #93

Can we see your plan for obliteration? edisdead Apr 23 #126

You want a viable plan from someone on the internet?... Think. Again. Apr 24 #142

Yet you believe their numbers. Gotcha. Anything that makes Israel look bad to reinforce confirmation bias AZLD4Candidate Apr 25 #154

Did I say I believe their numbers? Think. Again. Apr 25 #155

A good community wouldn't blame a reaction on someone attacked on the one who was attacked. AZLD4Candidate Apr 25 #156

I really don't want to get into hypotheticals... Think. Again. Apr 25 #159

FAFO. We Jews don't take being slaughtered. AZLD4Candidate Apr 25 #160

I understand you're very angry... Think. Again. Apr 25 #162

Biden in February: "over 27,000 Palestinians killed in this conflict have been innocent civilians and children" David__77 Apr 23 #72

DU rules are not to use RW sources like like the NY Post. . .unless they allow us confirmatio bias AZLD4Candidate Apr 23 #75

Who else other than the Gaza government media office will be able to count the deaths? Israel? Autumn Apr 23 #81

The Hamas run Gaza government is a fucking joke. You trust them? You do you. AZLD4Candidate Apr 23 #104

Who the fuck else is going to count the deaths? Israel? if they told me the sky was blue Autumn Apr 23 #110

You do you. I am beginning to understand why Hamas is looked at in a better light than Israel AZLD4Candidate Apr 23 #111

Netanyahu is the problem. Fuck that trump clone. He has kept Hamas in power Autumn Apr 23 #112

Don't move the goalposts. You said you didn't trust Israel and you sidestepped my question AZLD4Candidate Apr 23 #113

Netanyahu is the leader of Israel. That's not moving the goalposts. When you talk about Autumn Apr 23 #131

Do you think Oct 7 was a lie since you don't believe anything out of Israel? Yes or no AZLD4Candidate Apr 23 #132

Try reading what I posted. Or not. nt Autumn Apr 23 #133

Nice smug. Didn't answer my question. Refuses to. Called out and then gets indignant. AZLD4Candidate Apr 23 #135

Yeah I did. You either just didn't like my answer or maybe you missed it. Bye Autumn Apr 23 #136

Bye. Permanently. AZLD4Candidate Apr 23 #137

Well atreides1 Apr 25 #152

But you trust the Hamas elected Gaza Government's numbers. AZLD4Candidate Apr 25 #153

That is a terrible number that should give anyone a chill sarisataka Apr 21 #6

It doesn't JustAnotherGen Apr 21 #11

Some Jewish pro Palestine groups are protesters womanofthehills Apr 22 #16

That is true sarisataka Apr 22 #17

The question you asked has been answered whathehell Apr 22 #57

But but but malaise Apr 21 #7

Yes BannonsLiver Apr 22 #25

How many were being used as fighters Mountainguy Apr 21 #8

how mant were used as human shields? AZLD4Candidate Apr 22 #21

Post removed Post removed Apr 21 #9

I think this is the absolutely by far worse thing I have seen on here. Eko Apr 22 #13

Omg claudette Apr 22 #33

If only there was an explanation for this NickB79 Apr 21 #12

Hamas, the PLO, and Hezbollah use children and women as human shields, then scream when killed AZLD4Candidate Apr 22 #22

Yeah sure claudette Apr 22 #32

Hamas has been doing it for years. Where were you when Jewish children were killed? AZLD4Candidate Apr 22 #36

I should alert on you for what you are accusing another Brenda Apr 22 #55

israel edisdead Apr 23 #127

What is the explanation for this? Avalon Sparks Apr 22 #38

Easy: Israel requires their citizens join the military at age 18 NickB79 Apr 22 #46

All land grabs by Israel Avalon Sparks Apr 23 #69

lol it is literally no different obamanut2012 Apr 23 #83

What does that ahve to do with dead civilans? obamanut2012 Apr 23 #82

Hamas has one hell of a propaganda machine. nt LexVegas Apr 22 #24

That won't bother Hamas. Turbineguy Apr 22 #26

It obviously claudette Apr 22 #31

Dear God this is so sad. And I don't just mean the # of dead children. Nanjeanne Apr 22 #28

Horrible claudette Apr 22 #29

Denial enid602 Apr 22 #30

How the Gaza Ministry of Health Fakes Casualty Numbers NickB79 Apr 22 #37

I dont believe a single utterance Sugarcoated Apr 22 #68

I don't believe a single utterance of Bibi's government, either obamanut2012 Apr 23 #84

Most people here who support Israel do not DaBronx Apr 23 #107

Post removed Post removed Apr 23 #90

15,000 children weren't targeted by the IDF, maxsolomon Apr 22 #40

No claudette Apr 22 #42

Should they have stopped at 1,200 dead children? maxsolomon Apr 22 #44

They should claudette Apr 22 #65

They should never have responded militarily to 10/7, then, maxsolomon Apr 23 #85

You asked about claudette Apr 23 #89

Children have not been TARGETED. maxsolomon Apr 23 #95

If they know claudette Apr 25 #151

Collective punishment has been a great recruitment tool for Israel's enemies. Duncan Grant Apr 22 #43

If I'm being sarcastic, I use the sarcasm smilie. maxsolomon Apr 22 #45

Doesn't it seem odd for a liberal site Brenda Apr 22 #51

Report me for inhumanity, then. maxsolomon Apr 23 #86

Israel doing "nothing" wasn't the only alternative whathehell Apr 22 #60

You realize there were thousands of perpetrators and hundreds of hostages, right? maxsolomon Apr 23 #87

The number of hostages are known. whathehell Apr 23 #91

Just what I've read on Wiki. maxsolomon Apr 23 #94

Which is worse, indiscriminate bombing is horrible uponit7771 Apr 23 #92

Israel says they are not bombing indiscriminately. maxsolomon Apr 23 #96

Undercount for sure Brenda Apr 22 #47

When an entire extended family is buried under tons of debris, who will count them? Chainfire Apr 22 #49

Absolutely true. Brenda Apr 22 #50

And Israel will perish and he will lose the election. edisdead Apr 23 #128

You should tone back the "fuck Israel" hate speech TexasDem69 Apr 23 #109

If Justice is the judge, history will NOT be kind. nt TeamProg Apr 22 #53

Wouldn't trust the numbers manicdem Apr 22 #58

The unquestioned and uncritical citing Mountainguy Apr 23 #70

Let me tell you where I get my figures from... Violet_Crumble Apr 23 #71

It doesnt matter where you get them from Mountainguy Apr 23 #74

Hamas truthful freedom fighters. Israel Apartheid invader using Nazi tactics (at least from things I've read here) AZLD4Candidate Apr 23 #105

ProPublica: Staff recommendations to sanction Israeli whathehell Apr 22 #66

Thanks for posting this. Goddessartist Apr 24 #143

You're very welcome. whathehell Apr 24 #149

Not children. "Collateral damage", "unfortunate casulties", "Havas started it" Ping Tung Apr 23 #88

No one's denying children have been killed. maxsolomon Apr 23 #97

As an unreformed Peacenik I cerrtainly agree with "not have a war." Ping Tung Apr 23 #98

Both sides? edisdead Apr 23 #129

Well if there's only one side fighting themselves then peace should be aasy. Ping Tung Apr 24 #141

"The only way to prevent any children being killed whathehell Apr 23 #117

More Israelis should die is what you are saying. edisdead Apr 23 #130

That is NOT what I am saying whathehell Apr 23 #139

There were 3,000 Gazan "perpetrators" on 10/7. 600 were killed that day. maxsolomon Apr 24 #147

I don't know what Israel's intelligence resources whathehell Apr 24 #148

Lies. Oopsie Daisy Apr 23 #102

What is a lie is refusing to admit innocent Gazans are being slaughtered and starved obamanut2012 Apr 24 #145

No. The "by Israel" part is the lie. These deaths are all on HAMAS. Hamas is to blame. Oopsie Daisy Apr 24 #146

...according to Hamas. nt LexVegas Apr 23 #119

iSrAeL hAs A rIGhT tO dEfEnD iTsElF budkin Apr 25 #161