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In reply to the discussion: Rather than be naive enough to imagine this GMO article would change many minds... [View all]ljm2002
(10,751 posts)38. Okay here we go...
...one by one:
1) Claim: Genetic engineering is a radical technology.
So the author is claiming that the ability to inject fish genes into a tomato is not radical? We must have different definitions of "radical".
It is disingenuous to claim that plant breeding is the same thing as modifying plants via genetic engineering. Let's just go by the description given in the article:
Here's how it works: Scientists extract a bit of DNA from an organism, modify or make copies of it, and incorporate it into the genome of the same species or a second one. They do this by either using bacteria to deliver the new genetic material, or by shooting tiny DNA-coated metal pellets into plant cells with a gene gun. While scientists can't control exactly where the foreign DNA will land, they can repeat the experiment until they get a genome with the right information in the right place
Plant breeding does not introduce genes from different species; rather, it works with traits that are already present in the plants. Yes over a period of time these traits are modified but the process is different from genetic engineering. Genetic engineering does indeed allow radical changes to organisms.
2) Claim: GMOs are too new for us to know if they are dangerous.
It depends on how you define new. Genetically engineered plants first appeared in the lab about 30 years ago and became a commercial product in 1994. Since then, more than 1,700 peer-reviewed safety studies have been published, including five lengthy reports from the National Research Council, that focus on human health and the environment. The scientific consensus is that existing GMOs are no more or less risky than conventional crops.
So GMOs have been in our food supply for a grand total of 20 years. And this is sufficient, apparently, to know they are safe. Anyway, no matter how you slice it, the fact remains that WE have been the subjects of a giant food safety study over the last 20 years. I don't remember agreeing to be in such a study, do you?
3) Claim: Farmers can't replant genetically modified seeds.
The article "debunks" this claim by pointing out that terminator genes are not employed. It then goes on to say:
Seed companies do require farmers to sign agreements that prohibit replanting in order to ensure annual sales, but Kent Bradford, a plant scientist at the University of California, Davis, says large-scale commercial growers typically don't save seeds anyway.
In other words, farmers who use genetically modified seeds cannot LEGALLY replant them, as per the claim. This policy is, of course, DIRECTLY attributable to genetic engineering and its related patent laws. Also, it is very dismissive to say that "large-scale commercial growers" don't use last year's seeds anyway -- and it tells us more about the author's bias than they probably intended.
4) Claim: We don't need GMOsthere are other ways to feed the world.
GMOs alone probably won't solve the planet's food problems. But with climate change and population growth threatening food supplies, genetically modified crops could significantly boost crop output.
Not a very strong statement that GMOs "could" boost crop output. It then goes on to say that GMOs are "one good thing in our arsenal". IOW, no debunking here.
5) Claim: GMOs cause allergies, cancer, and other health problems.
(non-strawman version: GMOs may cause allergies, cancer, and other health problems)
Many people worry that genetic engineering introduces hazardous proteins, particularly allergens and toxins, into the food chain. It's a reasonable concern: Theoretically, it's possible for a new gene to express a protein that provokes an immune response. That's why biotech companies consult with the Food and Drug Administration about potential GMO foods and perform extensive allergy and toxicity testing. Those tests are voluntary but commonplace; if they're not done, the FDA can block the products.
"Those tests are voluntary" and "the FDA can block the products" -- so the tests are NOT required, and the FDA CAN block the products -- but do they actually DO so? Can't tell from this article, that's for sure.
6) Claim: All research on GMOs has been funded by Big Ag.
(non-strawman version: Most research on GMOs has been funded by Big Ag.
This simply isn't true. Over the past decade, hundreds of independent researchers have published peer-reviewed safety studies. At least a dozen medical and scientific groups worldwide, including the World Health Organization and the American Association for the Advancement of Science, have stated that the GMOs currently approved for market are safe.
The author says it isn't true. I'm sure it isn't, not in the form stated: ALL research on GMOs being funded by Big Ag. What the author fails to address, is whether the preponderance of the research is funded by Big Ag. Furthermore, stating that a dozen scientific groups worldwide have stated that current GMOs are safe, does not address the claim that is supposedly being debunked.
7) Claim: Genetically modified crops cause farmers to overuse pesticides and herbicides.
This claim requires a little parsing.
Indeed.
Two relevant GMOs dominate the market. The first enables crops to express a protein from the bacterium Bacillus thuringiensis (Bt), which is toxic to certain insects. It's also the active ingredient in pesticides used by organic farmers. Bt crops have dramatically reduced reliance on chemical insecticides in some regions, says Bruce Tabashnik, a University of Arizona entomologist.
So (a) the article acknowledges that certain GMOs produce an insecticide IN THE PLANT ITSELF -- i.e., you can't wash off the Bt before you eat the fruit or vegetable. But that's okay because hey, organic farmers use the same insecticide (although it can be washed off their plants). And, wonder of wonders, Bt crops have reduced insecticide use. In some areas. Not that this article is going to give you any clue as to which areas, or how prevalent. IOW, pretty weak debunking already.
The second allows crops to tolerate the herbicide glyphosate so that farmers can spray entire fields more liberally yet kill only weeds. Glyphosate use has skyrocketed in the U.S. since these GMOs were introduced in 1996. But glyphosate is among the mildest herbicides available, with a toxicity 25 times less than caffeine. Its use has decreased reliance on more toxic alternatives, such as atrazine.
So they admit that glyphosate use has skyrocketed, but that's okay because hey, it's a mild herbicide.
They have not actually debunked the claim -- especially the herbicide claim.
8) Claim: GMOs create super-insects and super-weeds.
If farmers rely too heavily on Bt or glyphosate, then pesticide resistance is inevitable, says Tabashnik. That's evolution at work, and it's analogous to antibiotics creating hardier bacteria. It is an increasing problem and could lead to the return of harsher chemicals. The solution, he says, is to practice integrated pest management, which includes rotating crops. The same goes for any type of farming.
So this time they simply acknowledge that the claim is correct but then say it's no big deal and anyway, rotating crops will help. IOW, not debunked.
9) Claim: GMOs harm beneficial insect species.
This has been been partly debunked.
Do tell.
First they acknowledge that monarchs have been shown to be sensitive to Bt pollen and harm has been demonstrated in the laboratory. Then they say no worries, because monarchs are not exposed to lethal levels in the wild...
Meanwhile, the glyphosate-resistant GMOs allow farmers to spray so much glyphosate that the monarch's habitat has been decimated, resulting in a catastrophic drop in the monarch population that ties in DIRECTLY with GMOs.
This claim is not debunked at all; it is reinforced.
10) Claim: Modified genes spread to other crops and wild plants, upending the ecosystem.
According to Wayne Parrott, a crop geneticist at the University of Georgia, the risk for neighboring farms is relatively low. For starters, it's possible to reduce the chance of cross-pollination by staggering planting schedules, so that fields pollinate during different windows of time. (Farmers with adjacent GMO and organic fields already do this.) And if some GMO pollen does blow into an organic field, it won't necessarily nullify organic status. Even foods that bear the Non-GMO Project label can be 0.5 percent GMO by dry weight.
So, a non-GMO farmer has only to adjust his planting schedule to dovetail with the Big Ag concern right next door. Or maybe he can work out a mutual schedule -- I'm sure they'd be only too willing to accommodate his concerns. And the "don't worry, you can still keep your organic label" thing is just insulting. As if organic farmers are only concerned with meeting the letter of the law in their methods. Many of them actually want to avoid GMOs.
Finally we have this gem:
As for a GMO infiltrating wild plants, the offspring's survival partly depends on whether the trait provides an adaptive edge. Genes that help wild plants survive might spread, whereas those that, say, boost vitamin A content might remain at low levels or fizzle out entirely.
Basically: yes GMOs can get into the wild. Some of the genes will help plants survive and some won't.
Gee, ya think? So they ACKNOWLEDGE the claim and then handwave to make it sound innocuous.
This article is a puff piece for Big Ag and GMOs. There is information there, certainly, but not enough to support the stated conclusions. It does not debunk what it says it will debunk, and some of the statements to be debunked are strawmen to begin with.
It amazes me how many self-described "pro-science" people see an article like this one and check their critical faculties at the door.
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Rather than be naive enough to imagine this GMO article would change many minds... [View all]
Silent3
Jul 2014
OP
People buy what they want to buy. They should know what they are being sold.
Bluenorthwest
Jul 2014
#18
it was "republished" when the authors paid a fake vanity journal to publish it WITHOUT peer review
mike_c
Jul 2014
#31
You are chastising prospective responders for pre-emptive responses that are formed without
Squinch
Jul 2014
#2
There should be a choice, for farmers and for consumers. Does democracy frighten you?
Bluenorthwest
Jul 2014
#12
Gee, I missed the part where I claimed you said anything. I was speaking my mind.
Bluenorthwest
Jul 2014
#16
So I should have taken the the very pointed-sound question "Does democracy frighten you?"
Silent3
Jul 2014
#19
I'm not well-educated enough on these issues to ultimately decide which side is right
aint_no_life_nowhere
Jul 2014
#48
Didn't someone just post a link to an article stating GMO foods are less nutritious
justiceischeap
Jul 2014
#63